Trouble Maker Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) I've got some questions, I want to bounce ideas off of everyone to make sure I'm thinking about this correctly. I've towed quite a bit, but I'm new to setting this stuff up on my own and haven't used some things like weight distribution hitch or trailer sway bars before. The Jeeps towing capacity is 7.2k pounds, empty the trailer is 5k pounds and GVWR is 6.5k pounds though I doubt it will ever be loaded up that much. This engine/trim levels curb weigh is almost 5.4k pounds. https://www.keystonerv.com/product/bullet-crossfire/comfort-travel-trailers/floorplans/2430BH Any tips/tricks on dialing in brake controller settings? How to get the correct rise/drop on the draw bar? Is there some measurement on the trailer about how high from level the hitch ball should be or something along these lines? I'll have to pickup a draw bar before we go get the trailer, I won't have eyes on it before we go get it. Any necessity of extras; weight distributing hitches, trailer sway control, etc.? On weight distributing hitches, this car has air sus. So my thought is it should level itself out, at least within it's range of control. Even if it can't get the car to completely flat, it should help a ton to get it 50% of the way there for example. Worst case I could imagine WDH and air sus fighting each other. So my thought was unnecessary at best and could make things worse, so don't do it with this vehicle. Trailer sway bar. Are these usually pro-active or only reactive? The Jeep also has trailer sway damping/control built into the stability control. I've no idea if this is any good, but the ones I've driven will save your ass. If properly loaded seems like it would be unnecessary, and since the Jeep has trailer sway control built in, worst case that should help the situation. Finally my thought on trailer sway bars and weight distribution hitches is they would have little benefit for the cost and complication for this application, this isn't some extreme towing situation. But I'm wanting to ask you all to make sure I'm thinking about this correctly. Anything else I'm not thinking of? Edited January 14, 2021 by Trouble Maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 Trailer sway control. Are these usually pro-active or only reactive? The Jeep also has trailer sway damping/control built into the stability control. I've no idea if this is any good, but the ones I've driven will save your ass. If properly loaded seems like it would be unnecessary, and since the Jeep has trailer sway control built in, worst case that should help the situation. It's a reactive system, and yes it will save your ass. Best way to prevent it is by properly loading the trailer (positive tongue weight). Air suspension should level it out and should give an overload warning if it's too heavy on the rear axle. Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 It's a reactive system, and yes it will save your ass. Best way to prevent it is by properly loading the trailer (positive tongue weight). Sorry, I should have been clear, used different terminology for the two parts. The interwebs is using the same words for different systems, I guess they do the same thing so it could make sense but it's also confusing. I edited my original post Trailer Sway bar = mechanical kind of damper looking system on the trailer. Trailer sway control or damping, not sure what the name is in Jeep/FCA world = reactive in the stability control system. I have (working) experience with this control from our past life, yes, they are usually really good. I just didn't want to blanket statement them all being really good as it's always logic/systems/settings depending. Yes (I'm sure you know this) it exist in this Jeep GC (2014). I was trying to ask about the necessity or real world benefit in my case of the Trailer Saw bar, physical mechanical damper add on systems. Yes, my experience is also that if the trailer is properly loaded (positive, 10-15% tongue weight) you are OK. I know how to weigh/load a trailer. So I don't feel like trailer sway should be a problem in practice. Air suspension should level it out and should give an overload warning if it's too heavy on the rear axle. Thanks, that's good to know! First air sus car and I also I wasn't sure how capable this system was. It seems pretty capable with the range of height adjustable, I just wasn't sure how well that would necessarily translate to (tongue) load leveling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossle Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 Load leveling hitches are totally worth it at that weight especially considering how close you are to the "maximum" capability of the truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 Load leveling hitches are totally worth it at that weight especially considering how close you are to the "maximum" capability of the truck. How well do they play together with self adjusting/load leveling air suspension? Seems like at best they would have the same function, making the load leveling hitch unnecessary/redundant. But again, maybe I'm not thinking about it correctly or miss-understanding something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cranium Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 I use a weight distribution hitch for my trailer and I recommend them. Setting them up can be a little tricky. There are youtube videos you can watch to figure out tongue height and the amount of tension to put on them. The interesting thing I remember from the videos was they were measuring the gap between the wheel and fender on the front. As the ass end drops the nose goes up and that's what they were using to set up the weight distribution hitch. I don't use a swaybar, although when towing with my wifes old tundra I wish I did have one. The old 24' trailer would wag the dog pretty hard over about 55 or 60. As for setting up the brake controller I just drive normal and tweak it up or down until the braking of the truck feels normal. Make sure to figure out how the emergecy braking works. Borrowed a friends truck one time and saw a weird little lever on the controller. That trip a guy cut me off on 270 and hit his brakes. No way I could have gotten stopped in time without pushing that lever over and using the trailer to slow down the truck. My Teconsha has multiple settings so you can choose which trailer you're towing. I keep telling myself to set it up with 2 profiles for when my trailer is empty vs full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 So, it sounds like it could be good... I'm still on the fence with the Jeep having air sus how needed it is. I'm kind of inclined to see how it tows and go from there. But I really trust both of your opinions so again, it's swaying me and I'm torn on what the best path is. My parents are the ones buying the trailer and my Jeep will be the collective tow vehicle. They are going in today to put a deposit on it and the dealer is trying to up-sell them on WDH, trailer sway bar, brake controller. It sounds like it could be worth to have them do it due to how much of a PITA a WDH is to setup. I originally told me parents to tell them we weren't interested in any add-ons but I will tell them to discuss when they go in today. It won't hurt to see what the cost is and how much setup they actually do with the WDH e.g. just put the hardware on the trailer or actually set it up on the car. I got this brake controller. https://www.curtmfg.com/part/51170 I liked that you can bury most of the unit, I put it behind the left kick panel next to the (foot) parking brake. Way less chance of my cracking my knee on it. If you press in during normal operation it will ramp up to whatever you've set the max braking amount to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 That's a really clean interface. Thanks for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossle Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 How well do they play together with self adjusting/load leveling air suspension? Seems like at best they would have the same function, making the load leveling hitch unnecessary/redundant. But again, maybe I'm not thinking about it correctly or miss-understanding something. The load leveling for me is less about the flatness of your set up, but it acts as a sway control in windy conditions or rough road conditions. It also acts as a secondary suspension and typically is a much smoother ride on long trips. It settles the trailer down over big bumps on uneven bridge transitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 If you're towing it to Alum Creek whatever. If you're going to be towing it long distance anything that reduces the number of inputs the driver has to do helps. If you weigh the camper once it is loaded with stuff it will probably be heavier than you think. The weight distribution will help keep more weight on the front of the tow vehicle air suspension or not, it isn't just about leveling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 If you're towing it to Alum Creek whatever. If you're going to be towing it long distance anything that reduces the number of inputs the driver has to do helps. If you weigh the camper once it is loaded with stuff it will probably be heavier than you think. The weight distribution will help keep more weight on the front of the tow vehicle air suspension or not, it isn't just about leveling. Yeah, I imagine it's easy once you add water, propane, things to live (cooking, food), clothing to get 700-1200lbs extra in the camper really quickly. I'm guesstimating 6k#s tow weight, anyway it 'can't' be more than 6.5k#s but that's getting awfully close to max towing rating of this vehicle. Originally I was steering them to a 21' that was 4.5k#s empty w/5.5k GVWR. But this 24' one has a way better layout and much more live-able space. They wanted something w/bunks for our nieces/nephews, their grand-kids, so they selection is more limited. We will go longer distances with this, my parents plan to go out west maybe this summer, we might go to the Dakotas this spring with it. I'm all about features that reduce driver work load to make it more comfortable. Nothing worse than going on a vacation and the first thing that happens is a drive that's more stressful or difficult than needed. We'll see what the RV stealership says about cost and how much they do for setup and go from there. This looks pretty sweet, a little more expensive than usual like the brake controller due to features, but it looks really nice. https://www.curtmfg.com/part/17499 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossle Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 Yeah, I imagine it's easy once you add water, propane, things to live (cooking, food), clothing to get 700-1200lbs extra in the camper really quickly. I'm guesstimating 6k#s tow weight, anyway it 'can't' be more than 6.5k#s but that's getting awfully close to max towing rating of this vehicle. Originally I was steering them to a 21' that was 4.5k#s empty w/5.5k GVWR. But this 24' one has a way better layout and much more live-able space. They wanted something w/bunks for our nieces/nephews, their grand-kids, so they selection is more limited. We will go longer distances with this, my parents plan to go out west maybe this summer, we might go to the Dakotas this spring with it. I'm all about features that reduce driver work load to make it more comfortable. Nothing worse than going on a vacation and the first thing that happens is a drive that's more stressful or difficult than needed. We'll see what the RV stealership says about cost and how much they do for setup and go from there. This looks pretty sweet, a little more expensive than usual like the brake controller due to features, but it looks really nice. https://www.curtmfg.com/part/17499 You should be able to find complete setups on Facebook or Craigslist for under $250. Under $150 would be a "excellent" deal. They are easy to install yourself. That is outrageous for a new one haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 You should be able to find complete setups on Facebook or Craigslist for under $250. Under $150 would be a "excellent" deal. They are easy to install yourself. That is outrageous for a new one haha. Thanks, I didn't even think about that and already found a few in the ~$200 range. It's great to know since I assume the RV place will probably come back and say they can install one for $1k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRust Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 ford says no more than 5k without weight distributing, so having a brand new truck I got the right setup for my concession trailer(towing 3/6 times a week @6500 lbs) with a weight distributing hitch my truck is rated at 10,300. in the wind and next to semis it makes a large difference towing stability. I'm very happy with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) Info online and in manuals is mixed and IMHO lacking about max trailer weight w/o WDH. I don't know the specific spec. for yours Derek, but from what I've seen Ford seems really good about having and giving access to full specs based on every necessary spec; wheel base, engine, drive-train, tow package, etc. So you can better know the actual situation with your specific vehicle setup. It's probably more important because people are more often buying full size trucks for heavy and frequent towing, fleet vehicles with a specific defined use case so the customer can chose the correct setup for their sitaution. For the Jeep GC US manual says 3.5k#s AU manual says ~5k#s Of course expectation and use case is different based on destination and specs may be accordingly different. While I don't know much about AU towing situation I can't imagine them having better roads or lower speeds than US. About 3.5k#s, it's one line in the manual that as far as I know was added later with an update. There is no indication about any differences for trim/options, so this could be for V6 2WD w/steel sus vs this car which is Diesel (much heavier e.g. overall weight and front) 4WD w/air sus. Regardless my parents seem to want the RV dealership to put one on. They will install it and set it up on the car for $700. Seems a little expensive, but it's their money and definitely the path of least resistance to get it done. Even if it weren't 100% necessary which seems highly debatable, it should reduce driver workload and make towing more comfortable, I'm all about that. Thanks for all of the advice and guidance, I definitely learned some things about towing. Will post some pictures when it comes in probably late February! Edited January 17, 2021 by Trouble Maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck531 Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Not to Hijack the thread or anything (but I will), I just bought a 99 Jeep Cherokee with the 5.9 in it mainly for hauling the Fiero to the track and back. Max towing weight is 5k. Fiero weighs 2800. Planning on either using a Uhaul trailer or buying one eventually. Generally the 16' trailers/uhaul ones are what. around 2k lbs? add in 3k for the fiero and that puts it right at 5k. Should I worry about either A: upgrading brakes on the Jeep, B: get a trailer that has brakes on it? It already has a hitch on it, just now looking to see what kind of ball/drop/raise/whatever for the towing part of it. Straight? Drop? Raise? Never owned anything before that would tow anything let alone a truck/SUV like this. Opinions are welcome. Not planning on doing anything until the spring so I have time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeesammy Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Not to Hijack the thread or anything (but I will), I just bought a 99 Jeep Cherokee with the 5.9 in it mainly for hauling the Fiero to the track and back. Max towing weight is 5k. Fiero weighs 2800. Planning on either using a Uhaul trailer or buying one eventually. Generally the 16' trailers/uhaul ones are what. around 2k lbs? add in 3k for the fiero and that puts it right at 5k. Should I worry about either A: upgrading brakes on the Jeep, B: get a trailer that has brakes on it? It already has a hitch on it, just now looking to see what kind of ball/drop/raise/whatever for the towing part of it. Straight? Drop? Raise? Never owned anything before that would tow anything let alone a truck/SUV like this. Opinions are welcome. Not planning on doing anything until the spring so I have time. U hauls trailers are insanely heavy (2,210 lbs. per their website) and you are going to be pushing the limits A LOT for that thing. A unibody vehicle is hot garbage for towing any decent amount of weight. I wouldn't even consider towing any vehicle regardless of weight on a tandem trailer that is not equipped with brakes and a trailer brake controller. I've done a bunch of sketchy towing over the last 2 years and I'm done doing it, one close call and it has changed my outlook completely. It's not worth getting close to the GCVWR and having more load than brakes. And for reference, air suspension does not change the fact you will be over the axle's GWR, the entire premise of the weight distribution system is to partially transfer the load to the front axle. All air ride will do is fix your headlights aiming at the moon, does not add towing capacity obviously and it will still ride bad. I get the take that "its rated for 7k, so I can tow 7k", but that is when it is new and without lack of maintenance and quality parts/repairs. I would recommend anyone towing a car get a trailer with brakes and a brake controller and dial it in with a temp gun to make sure you've got it dialed in good and you are not overheating your brakes or the trailers brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossle Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Not to Hijack the thread or anything (but I will), I just bought a 99 Jeep Cherokee with the 5.9 in it mainly for hauling the Fiero to the track and back. Max towing weight is 5k. Fiero weighs 2800. Planning on either using a Uhaul trailer or buying one eventually. Generally the 16' trailers/uhaul ones are what. around 2k lbs? add in 3k for the fiero and that puts it right at 5k. Should I worry about either A: upgrading brakes on the Jeep, B: get a trailer that has brakes on it? It already has a hitch on it, just now looking to see what kind of ball/drop/raise/whatever for the towing part of it. Straight? Drop? Raise? Never owned anything before that would tow anything let alone a truck/SUV like this. Opinions are welcome. Not planning on doing anything until the spring so I have time. My .02 is that if you are near the top of capability and being a Jeep, a trailer with brakes will be important. This will require a "round" 7 pin connector instead of the standard straight 4 pin. It will also require a brake controller if it doesn't already have all of this. Being a Grand Cherokee you will likely need a "drop". If you know people who have hitches it's more convenient to try 1 or 2 different ones to get the results you are looking for. Condition of the rear shocks will be something to pay attention to and possibly upgrade to a "air" shock, I would wait to see how hard it squats when it's loaded. Since you are pulling the Fiero the length of the trailer and the relation to the length where the axles are mounted will determine whether you load it forwards or backwards. Most 16' trailers have the axles too far forward and will require the car on the trailer backwards. You want a majority of the load over the axles with some forward tongue weight. My 20ft trailer is long enough that I load the MR2 forwards because the axles are so far back on the deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck531 Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 The jeep already has air bags in the rear so that's a plus to level it out. I'll have to look into a trailer with brake and a controller. I'm not looking to tow it to more than either DW42 or Trails. Not that it matters but way back in 05/06 I trailered my Lumina (3300 lbs?) with Brians 02/03 Envoy up to norwalk and it worked perfectly. That was just with the v6 or whatever it had in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Pulling power usually isn’t the problem, you can tow heavy stuff with a garden tractor. Sway and stopping are the main concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck531 Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Pulling power usually isn’t the problem, you can tow heavy stuff with a garden tractor. Sway and stopping are the main concerns. Yeah. I'm going to have to do my research to see what I can get in the spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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