DrummerDave

Im in the Louisville Area, so I'd have to ship it, but anyway. .

I've got an 03 R6 (blue) tail fairing that I might be interested in having resprayed to the factory color.

Fell over in the garage and lightly scuffed the edge, and put about a 1" crack on the bottom.

Can I get a price quote for fixing the crack and respraying?

Ooo, I should get "Evil Twin" on the back of mine...

I had one guy get "EVIL SEED" on his suit.

Hey, DD, just a quick question about the measurements; if we measure w/o a back protector and check the "did not measure w/ back protector box" and buy one of your back protectors, will you be able to compensate for the extra room when making the suit?

*Edit* I hope that makes sense?

Yes, the suit is made with extra material to allow for a back protector to be worn. If you measure wearing one, that is a little more accurate, as some BPs may only add 1" of extra to your chest, or they may add 4" (with some back/chest combos).

They typically add 3-4" on average to the chest and waist measurement which allows for most BPs to be worn, unless you tell me you measured w/ your BP on, then they only add an inch or 2.

Clear as mud?

And Hix passed on that option?? what a pussy!

FWIW, I heard about Spartan Leathers from Ron, and he doesn't miss a chance to recommend you. Sponsorship money well spent, IMO.

That's good to hear. I dont hear a lot from Ron, but IMHO it's invaluable having an AMA rider wearing my stuff.

An orgasm with a phone call. Sort of difficult to live with in public, I'd guess?

It can be at times.

FYI people Drummer Dave runs/owns Spartan Leathers.

If you have questions ask him before he dissapears for another 6 months.

I come when I am called.

... like Batman.

BTW, Pink IS available.

I think its a good looking color scheme, particularly for that Mille in your Avatar (assuming that's what you Ride).

Another option would be to do something crazy and have a red arm & leg, and a green arm and leg or something, and a white stripe in the middle, and you could be a rolling Italian flag.

Hey Guys,

Here's a writeup from Jim Marcum of Jim's Leathers in the Chicago area:

"I have been in the leather industry for over 22 years now. Having extensive experience in all aspects of racing leathers, I was asked to take a look at some new leathers coming to market.

After thoroughly examining these leathers I can with all confidence say that they are made of top quality materials ... from the leather ,to the armor to the lining & threads. Not only are they made of good stuff, but they are designed for comfort & saftey.

I will recommend these suit to anyone looking for a top quality suit, best of all at the price they are asking it seems that most riders could buy 2. Having a back up suit in a pinch always helps.

James Marcum

EXPERT LEATHER CRAFTSMAN"

Motard crash I assume? On a mini no less in the wet??

Also, how thin is the leather where it was rubbed on the wet pavement? Looks awful thin and the color went away REALLY easily, huh? Looked like they held up which is cool. Again, great for an entry level suit.

Just not sure how a crash on a big bike on a road course would result in. Probably hold up well enough to protect, though.

I asked him that as well.

He says and I quote:

"Yes, we still have some more crashes to go.. I feel that the color has only been removed and the leather is roughed up, no real wear. That spot is padded and I am not even sore in that area! The suit held up great and did it’s job for sure!!! "

Hey Guys, I've got more crash results:

One of my riders crashed 5 times in his Spartan suit this weekend.

1 highside, 4 lowides.

The suit still held together completely.

That makes 6 crashes in this suit.

He posted pics in my forum:

http://www.spartanleathers.com/Forums/index.php?topic=31.0

anyone seen what happened to the orgianal point of this thread??

There was a point to this thread?

I think it got mugged and left in the ditch.

Are they calling it elasticized panels due to not using Schoeller product or like you guys where they are not paying to use their name, but using the product and not using the badges? I am not sure what materials they are using...

They're definitely not using Keprotec. It's pretty easy to see the difference between Keprotec and stretch Cordura. Some suits will have both, and you can see the difference (I think Fieldsheer's $1000 suit had both).

But to use the word "many" is like when you stated that a majority of suits are made in Pakistan. Even though I stated it was not true, you waited until Brian Van from STG stated the same thing.

Well, I didnt know you from Adam, and Brian has a solid reputation. No offense.

I did still see alot of suits made from PK at the dealer Expo. But again, I concede that I was WRONG about that statement. It wasnt done to intentionally deceive, but it was wrong nonetheless.

I cannot speak for BB, but I bet I can email him and ask and he can tell me. My guess is he has a leather supplier that is able to give him exacts on the leather he buys from them. I also know there are still some US based leather processing plants here. I almost bet he gets them from there, but I cannot confirm. I will ask next week and let you know....

I was speaking Hypothetically, as I have no clue as to what each builder does, nor do I know where they source their leather. But I would assume that the small builders simply do not have the resources to have their leather batch tested.

I can send you a leather sample, but what will that prove? How can you prove that your leather is what it is and is processed the way you say it is? Most companies have that as proprietary in form and will not provide the samples, but you can buy them easily enough and go through the process. However, they can supply their sources and you can go there and verify the leather process at the factories like they do. Maybe you can source some leather on a trip there...

As far as the abrasion test, how do you do that? what is the process you use? How do you rate in terms of the industry? Have you used other companies and their leather and did an exact comparison or do you test your leather and tell people you do? There's a standard used and there are only a handful of companies that do this under the set standards. Who do you use?

The guy I spoke to works for a place that does all kinds of material testing, including abrasion testing. He said he had 2 abrasion testing machines. I dont recall what they were called. All a leather sample from you would do is give me something to compare against. You're obviously very confident in the leather your company imports/exports. This would allow me to have some sort of baseline. If (totally made up) your leather survived 1000 cycles before destruction, and mine survived 900 cycles or whatever, it's just something to compare against.

You stated you use Schoeller's stuff, but that you do not use their tags. The reasoning I am sure is because you don't want to pay them for that tag as other people and companies do. However, because there are no tags, can you confirm that it is being used in the process at production? Since you don't go to the factory, are you basically taking the factory's word that they are using it and not a cheaper material? There are many companies that have similar material that is very much the same and tests out the same, but are cheaper. You do pay for that name, you know...

I personally dont really want the tags sticking out of hte arms and stuff - I hate that. I guess I could have them put the tag inside the suit.

"Better than many" is a quote. Above you stated that it is now just entry to mid-level. Is it most of those? Is AStar only one of the few that are better than yours? You say not as good as others... Does AStar fit into that "others"?

Not busting your balls too much, but man, here's the drill. I am not worried about the leather as much as I am about the fact that you NEVER go to the factory, you NEVER go and verify the leather process, you NEVER go through and validate QC and how the suit is built at time of production. That's the thing. You are a good salesman, for sure and I appreciate you have something to offer the entry level guys.

The thing is now that you have stated you compete with entry level and mid level suits, I am less upset. I think that's important and not deceiving...

I looked at A-stars, and it was well made stuff. I have nothing bad to say about it, as opposed to some of the other brands I looked at. I think I do a couple things a little better than their lower end stuff honestly, but I wouldnt go as far as to say my suits ARE better. Without doing side by side, in depth study of each particular suit, I wouldnt make that claim . . . On the other hand, some suits, like those FS suits I looked at, I would definitely say mine are made better, from both a construction, and feature standpoint.

Very similar design and features as the Spartan and when you total up the costs, they are almost identical. Designs are VERY similar if not in some cases the same...

I would probably wager a large sum of money they are the same factory pumping these out as Spartan. Goes to show that these aren't as direct as some people claim they are...

Hmmmmmm...

I know the guy doing these (at least, I've had some discussions w/ him), and I've seen some of his stuff first hand.

He does not have the same manufacturer as I do, and My designs are my own. I designed them myself. He sells the designs his manufacturer provided to him.

In addition, main seams on his suits are double-stitched, not triple.

Actually, it was somebody over at SVRider that referred me - but I dont know what his name is. If it's Alex, he didnt tell me.

Listen, you keep wanting me to do a direct comparison to suits, many of which are well over $1000. I dont expect to win that battle. My suits are not $1000+ suits. I never claimed they were. Nor are the $1000+ suits even my competition. My competition is the entry to mid range level suits from your name brand manufacturers.

You want to do an apples to apples comparison, how about comparing it to AGV, Fieldsheer, Cortech, Teknic, etc, particularly those in it's price range?

I looked at 3 Fieldsheer suits at the Dealer Expo last wkd, and they all still used Stretch cordura! Some (ie "Radar" suit) had only double stitched seams in the butt, a MAJOR impact area! That's pathetic! Even their $1000 Rufus suit uses "Elasticized stretch panels" (aka stretch cordura) for their stretch panels. Even Teknic was using Stretch cordura for some of thier stretch panels on their higher end suits - why? Cause it's cheaper. It certainly isnt better. And yet, if somebody said they were buying a Fieldsheer suit or Teknic suit, would you say it was crap? What about their materials? But Im sure you wouldnt say anything, because they're a big company who surely has employees overseeing the production at the site.

I literally average 10 suits per month. Now tell me how it is even possible to make regular trips to PK (not even considering the security issues), or pay someone to do it, and oversee the operation when I make less in a year than that 1 trip would likely cost me?

And since were comparing apples to apples, do you think Barnacle Bill, or ZCustoms, or Syed does batch to batch testing of the leather they use? No? They must be terrible suits! Poor quality leather! [Note heavy sarcasm] I am a VERY SMALL suit manufacturer. I do not have the budget for that, as those other custom suit builders likewise do not have the budget for it.

But it's ok, you dont have to send me a leather sample - even though my leather quality was your #1 issue you brought up - I'll STILL have my stuff abrasion tested.

Since we're talking about materials, in our PM discussion you asked about the Keprotec. I verified that it is actually THE Schoeller brand Keprotec. Yet, on here you imply that Im lying about it, that it isnt really keprotec. Not exactly honest and upfront.

And now, tell me - WHO has said my suits were BETTER than A'Stars? Have I said it? Have I ever said my suits were better than Hein Gericke? Have I ever said they were better than any particular suit? If anyone said it, it is customers who compared it to their suits at home. I wont make that claim for 2 reasons. 1) I dont know that I couldnt be sued for making the claim. 2) There could be some aspect of that suit design that could be better than something on my suit. So then, somebody (you) would say - "Not true! This is better!"

I stand that my suits are better than many others on the market, especially after looking at my competition's suits. All of which were more expensive than mine.

How about seam construction?

I use a triple stitch like this for impact areas - Butt, side seam, back of arms. This seam is the best seam to use for high impact areas, and is the same seam as is used by most manufacturers in the butt (that center seam).

But then they (including Alpinestars) go to a double stitch for their other seams (given, for many one of those stitches are hidden)..

In areas that are not impact areas, I use a standard double stitched seam like this:

So tell me, what is inferior about my seams?

Could I go to a double seam where one is hidden? Probably. I may even do that, but if it's not an area that is likely to see asphault, it wont make a difference.

In your watch scenario, you're right. You do pay for the internal components on a watch (as well as the manufacturing costs thereof). But you also pay the employees salaries, and their healthcare plans, and their retirement plans, and for the offices and warehouses of the company selling them. You also pay the middleman markup when you buy that watch at (name a place).

With my "watch", you only pay for the internal components & manufacturing, and a modest markup for the one guy who oversees the entire business, designs the product, inspects the finished goods, resells them etc. And as I make a living other than via Spartan, I have not taken $1 in pay for the many hundreds of hours I've worked at this. It all goes back into the business to make my product better, and develop new products. The result of all that is a watch of comparable value for less money.

Hey Guys,

Dave *Owner of Spartan* here.

Somebody suggested I join up as there was some discussion. . . little did I realize it was Lizard again.

Lizard may mean well, but working for a gear manufacturer, Lizard has a dog in this fight, so it is in his best interests to make me look as bad as possible, whether or not what he asserts is true.

That being the case, I would be happy to discuss my suits, the leather, the seam construction, etc. with anyone who would like.

Lizard, again, as I said in one of my PMs on wera, I have access to a guy who can do abrasion testing for me, and if you genuinely want to help, rather than just put down my suits, how about a 12"x12" sample of your superior Brazilian leather to compare results against?

Oh, and regarding no good riders being in my suits, here are a few who are:

1) Dan Jasa - CCS Expert - Won 1st in 2 of his classes.

2) This year Ron Hix - CCS Expert who won 1st in ALL 4 of his classes on his GSXR1000 will be wearing Spartan, and he will be doing some AMA rounds, as well as some national events.

3) James Ellis - LSTD Control Rider & racers Minis, so he'll likely be on the ground a lot this year.

Anyway guys, let me know if you've got any questions. I'd be happy to assist.