Zach

WHAT?!?!? My gamegear is WORTHLESS?!? You say that you'll "recycle it for free!" I say good day. GOOD DAY!

O noes! we're myth bustin! We could make a tv show and do this full time!

So, your results are worthless

I want to be clear; I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to have a productive discussion. How old were the rubber lines? the SS?

It's probably a good thing we don't have rep any more, there's some sensitive people here.

Irrelevant. One does not need to FEEL brake fade to understand what causes it.

Were both bled immediately before the track day? Were both the same age? While this may sound like a supporting argument for SS lines, I wager that there is another factor here.

Izzat a ducati?

I'm not bashing. You put words in my mouth in the other thread and I explained my knowledge on the subject matter. You thinking rubber brake lines causes brake fade is incorrect. Sorry if I hurt your mangina. RSV and others: I'm not trying to say that Aprilia makes shitty bikes. I am saying that public perception of them is more negative than positive and this recent problem is very damning. When you talk about Aprilia with many people, their struggles, issues, or quirks always seem to come up. How often are you talking to somebody about a 370Z and you hear this: "Man, I wanna like nissan, but that damn altima rod bearing issue has me worried."?

because nissan has a track record, ape doesn't.

It doesn't matter if the supplier fooked up or not, it's still aprilia's liability. We also don't know if the reason the supplied rods are failing is due to inadequate engineering on aprilia's part. Listen, I think apes are cool bikes and they've made some good examples. The reason I call them second rate is because they don't have a track record of reliability across the product line and their dealer network and parts supply is adequate at best.

I'm not saying it would have been easy to detect this. I do think this product was rushed to market. Aprilia has the ability to make some really awesome motorcycles, but if they can't build a bike for the real world, they're always gonna be second rate.

That movie was GREAT! Didn't they ramp off of a flatbed trailer or something?

This is something that should have been caught. Aprilia has had a bad rap for a long time now for being cool but unreliable. And when you pay ducati money to get it, it's pretty ridiculous. I would have thought after the SXV grenade motor debacle, they would have been at least a LITTLE MORE CAREFUL with a bike that will basically define the future of the company. As a side note, anybody know how many motors the ape dakar bike went through to get to its second place finish?

Yes, I know what the article says will happen. What actually happens is another thing.

What does "moving on this quickly" mean? They made an announcement, but it'll probably take 6mos for a replacement motor.

Stainless lines are easier to inspect for damage and wear. Rubber lines can hide internal failure of the teflon liner. Stainless lines are often easier to bleed. Many oem lines use a single line from the master and then a distribution block to each of the calipers. Every junction can be a place for air to get trapped. 2 line systems can be bled quicker. (This may also play into the brake fade argument too. The dual lines hold more fluid than OEM and this is what probably leads to quicker heat dissipation. This is just conjecture, I don't have any thermodynamic research to back it up.) Don't forget this little thing called advertising, too. Companies that make motorcycle accessories have to sell them. Give a racer a couple sets of $100 lines and slap a sticker on his fairings, sell hundreds of sets.

Nope. But here's your gun and badge anyway.

what the hell? is this police exam in whitehall? Are you awake? Yes [] No []

Is it sad that I know the usernames for almost every one of those?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Good rubber lines do not cause brake fade. Sure there may be a tiny percentage better heat transfer in a SS line, but it's negligible.

I'm not trying to insult you, but that's exactly the kool-ade that is prevalent in the industry. Yes, SS lines offer good performance, but it's their longevity and consistency that's their forte.

not true. people have this conception that rubber lines bulge and reduce braking feel. Here's what usually happens: Someone has a bike that has stock lines and it's maybe a couple years old. OEM fluid too. They then put on brand new stainless lines and (here's the important part) brand new fluid. Stock lines that are kept bled with good fluid work just as well as stainless lines. The real reason for upgrading to stainless is that rubber lines are a wear item and will degrade over time and this leads to decreased feel at the lever. SS lines never need replaced.