I agree with what you are saying and your 10 years outweigh my 6 months in the academy. I am aware of the Terry pat (which is supposed to only be used if the office feels that the suspect has a weapon) and plain view and all that other stuff. And also about DUI's on private property and such. My point is this. I was not telling them not to sign a ticket. That is a quick trip to County. But if an officer comes up to me and asks me for my ID and he has no probable cause and I am doing nothing wrong then it is against my 4th amendment rights. Why should I have to identify myself when there is no reason to. Yeah you will probably get a trip to county but do you honestly think it will fly in court even with an average attorney. Hell no. Like I said most cops can stretch the law to suit what they are doing and to try and justify what they did. And they usually get away with that stuff because most people dont know their rights. And most people will not follow up on this stuff because it is such a hassel or they can't afford an attorney. I am not saying anything bad about cops. Just that they stretch things to justify an arrest or some type of harrassment or whatever. Some cops are like that. I guaramntee that if your ducks are in a row then you will win in court.