Difficulty setting sag on 1100 EVO

[smashweights]

Your factory suspension settings will be in your Owners Manual. Find them and set the front/rear rebound/compression damping to stock and see how she feels.

tried that , problem is the manual is clearly for the older monster forks because it references clicks for the rebound and compression and the adjusters on the marzocchi forks don't clock, so it wasn't possible... I might try the recommended suspension settings that sport rider has listed and go from there...

[baptizo]

Man, I know idea what y'all are talking about here.

My Duc is setup for a heavier rider (the PO) and is actually perfect for me - I like a very firm setup. I haven't even touched the suspension on it...it tracks like a laser beam and doesn't get upset no matter how rough the surface. I do, however, have to keep an eye on the tire pressures or it will get squirrely on me up front.

[Tpoppa]

That sounds like too much compression damping and probably too much rebound damping also.

Read this entire page: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0006_susp_handle/

Which problems are you having?

Edited May 11, 2013 by Tpoppa

[Moto-Brian]

The 30~35mm target is from no rider to rider, not top-out to rider.

actually it is from topped out to with rider. Rider gets off and lift the bike to unload everything and measure to zip tye... 30-35mm is general and very much middle of the road. Personally, we are getting less and less about sag and more about setting the 10mm spring compressed from fully unloaded and dialing the suspension in per track and to the rider's feel...

[blue03636]

actually it is from topped out to with rider. Rider gets off and lift the bike to unload everything and measure to zip tye... 30-35mm is general and very much middle of the road. Personally, we are getting less and less about sag and more about setting the 10mm spring compressed from fully unloaded and dialing the suspension in per track and to the rider's feel...

Yep, just talked to Reuben about this a few months ago, works really well.

[Moto-Brian]

Also, for example with the Pani and sure the other Ducs are similar, you have about 25mm of stoppage that is due to a bump stop of sorts at the bottom of the fork. So, even though you see the fork slider run to the fork base, the fork will not travel that full amount.

For example, the Pani will be bottomed out and show 25mm of distance from the zip tye to the fork bottom. However, the suzuki would go all the way down to the fork bottom. For the Pani, we are looking for 30-31mm range or 6-7mm of left over travel. The suzuki would be about 1/4" from full bottoming out from zip tye to fork bottom...

So, take that into consideration when I am seeing 60 plus mm...

Also, if you have progressive springs in the forks, you are not getting proper sag measurements...

[smashweights]

Also, for example with the Pani and sure the other Ducs are similar, you have about 25mm of stoppage that is due to a bump stop of sorts at the bottom of the fork. So, even though you see the fork slider run to the fork base, the fork will not travel that full amount.

For example, the Pani will be bottomed out and show 25mm of distance from the zip tye to the fork bottom. However, the suzuki would go all the way down to the fork bottom. For the Pani, we are looking for 30-31mm range or 6-7mm of left over travel. The suzuki would be about 1/4" from full bottoming out from zip tye to fork bottom...

So, take that into consideration when I am seeing 60 plus mm...

Also, if you have progressive springs in the forks, you are not getting proper sag measurements...

@IP: I will try the compression that way. There's one particular road that has almost a "wave" of cracks that send me bucking back and forth and I'll work on that.

@D-B: what's this 10mm setting you speak of? Are you suggesting seeing where the suspension bottoms out completely and then using that as a reference point to set my sag, rather than the fixed point of the axle casting?

[blue03636]

He's talking about setting the sag from all the way out to just the bike to 10mm.

[smashweights]

He's talking about setting the sag from all the way out to just the bike to 10mm.

So free sag set at 10mm?

[Moto-Brian]

@IP: I will try the compression that way. There's one particular road that has almost a "wave" of cracks that send me bucking back and forth and I'll work on that.

@D-B: what's this 10mm setting you speak of? Are you suggesting seeing where the suspension bottoms out completely and then using that as a reference point to set my sag, rather than the fixed point of the axle casting?

You have to remove the rear spring or unspin the preload nut to the point the spring has zero compression on it. from fully unloaded, measure the length. once you have the length, turn the preload nut down on to the spring until you have about 10mm compressed. That's the starting point. Same with the front forks. Issue there is that unless you've had them completely out, you won't know what the length is. If you've never had them apart, you will be somewhat in the dark. The internals can have the springs compressed at assembly and it isn't as simple as fully out on preload and then turning in ten turns equals 10mm...

In that case, I would get with Matt Carr at Ducati Indy and ask him if the forks on your Monster have a stop similar to the other Ducatis and what the distance for STREET use or TRACK use should be from bottom of the tube to the zip tye. Like I mentioned, I shoot for 31mm from bottom to zip tye in terms of after a ride and looking for travel of the fork.

In other words, we don't set sag and look more at what the total travel is. In the case of what I am using as an example, 31mm is about 6mm from full bottomed out.

But, here's the rub... If you set sag for say, 30mm, you may be too far from full travel or opposite and too much full travel. At that stage, you then need to add or remove preload and that will change your sag numbers.

Again, the idea here is that the suspension needs to be used in totality and not by just sag. Sag is a great place to start, but the issue is that it can be different when you tune for travel.

If that all makes sense... Like I said, we are getting away from sag numbers as of late...

[Moto-Brian]

So free sag set at 10mm?

The 10mm is compressed amount on an unloaded spring. Even if the bike is off the ground completely and sacked out, there is still compression on the spring.

When the spring is on your table before installing in the shock or fork, it has a set length. Once installed, you have to turn the nut or compress the spring when installing in the forks.

Some guys tune with spacers also. GSXRs, for example. We had several length spacer tubes that allowed us different characteristics for whatever track we were at. Different lengths afforded different amounts of preload to be used and finer tuning...

On the rear of the bike, the nut does it all. But, ride height and chassis geometry comes heavily into play as well. The Pani is VERY sensitive to ride height. VERY... GSXR is also, but when you set it, it typically isn't changed much after. Also, rider input and riding style come into play as well... No two racers have the exact same setup, but using another rider's notes can allow you to have a starting point and tune from there.

So, at the end of the day, what I am saying I suppose is that it all connects and not near as simple as setting sag and being done. It is something that can be overwhelming to a degree and even to the point that I get confused...