Gagne moving up to Superbike

[Lawrence1]

http://www.motoamerica.com/superstock-1000-champion-jake-gagne-pegged-for-superbike-stardom

It's fun to watch a racer move up through AMA and on to the world stage. Hoping he has some luck this year and gives us American fans some hope.

Still pissed about losing mid-Ohio from the schedule, those bastards.

[whaler]

Good to see, and he has the talent and speed! Wish Kawasaki and Honda would renter as factory teams, plenty of talent in super sport to fill those spots. Would be nice to see a top 10 that can all fight for wins again.

Really miss the pre DMG days...

Eboz

Bboz

Zemke

Roberts

Duhamal

Mladin

Spies

Pegram

Roger Hayden

Tom Hayden

Hacking

Yates

Gobert x 3

Any one was capable of winning, yes Mladin was dominant, but the rest of the show was fantastic!

[Helmutt]

Hated the older days when Mladin dominated all the time....wasn't much race action for the win, all the good shit was happening behind him.  I loved the old Spies/Mladin battles when Ben came up the ranks and started winning, but iirc...Mat retired on top in '08\'09?.   Whatever happened to Mladin?

[whaler]

Hated the older days when Mladin dominated all the time....wasn't much race action for the win, all the good shit was happening behind him.  I loved the old Spies/Mladin battles when Ben came up the ranks and started winning, but iirc...Mat retired on top in '08\'09?.   Whatever happened to Mladin?

 

It was not that bad, others one, but Mladin defiantly one the championships.  Spies schooled him in 07 and 08...it is the nature of racing, sometimes people are just that much better than the rest.

 

Mladin retired and I am sure lives comfortably in Australia.

 

You still can not compare the talent of todays grid to the late 90's to 09...today's Moto America grid are not in the same league.

[Helmutt]

You still can not compare the talent of todays grid to the late 90's to 09...today's Moto America grid are not in the same league.

Bike tech has helped, as well as rider talent and fitness. Every year seems more competitive than the last, to some degree

[whaler]

Just so my comment was not taken out of context...Todays AMA grid is not to the talent level of 10 years or more.  Bike tech is removing some of the riding skill racers use to have.

 

Of course this is just my opinion.

 

With the changes in MotoGP for the upcoming season we will see if less electronics effects the outcome...so far testing has shown this to be true.  Factory Kawasaki World Superbike was fast enough at the last test to go faster than some factory MotoGP guys.  Fast enough to have qualified in the top 10 without using qualifying tires.

[Helmutt]

Agreed, sort of. Todays age has everything wire fed, so it was inevitable. It just takes a little different kind of rider, so I dont believe there's that much less talent now days. Afterall, lap records keep getting broken and that's not all because of electronic compensation....rider's can still ride.

But I was aiming towards bike tech meaning overall performance, there's a monstrous power to weight difference between 90s bikes and late models. Electronics are what they are, and there is some need deemed there, but teams decifer what works best for them. Some perform better with more electronics, whereas other guys ( ie, Josh Hayes ) could put in better laps with less interference from the ecu....he came up on some older school bikes like a lot of the vets did.

I'm anxious to see GP this year. And, I'd read that Kawi's team was griping a bit that the ZX10 was almost too fast, which is a good thing if it can be tamed into remaining controllable over the course of each race. Tire management being the biggest struggle when a bike is overpowered, but there is where electronics will help. They were very optomistic of good results

[whaler]

No doubt at the world level (MotoGP and WSBK) there is great talent, he'll even BSB and GSB have a good talent pool. AMA is more specifically my concern, there are a few good riders and some kids with promising potential, but overall I see way to many club level racers at AMA events over the last few years and it is disheartening. I don't want to pay to watch track day stars with deep pockets run around in single file.

Fear our society and culture have redirected would be talent into other areas or discouraged them completely. Why risk your health when you can live introverted grasping an XBox controller and beat VR46 in easy mode.

[Helmutt]

BSB definitely has some awesome race action. I managed to watch a few rounds last year and it was excellent, just haven't really followed it closely. But with the lack of US racing now, I just may. I really wasn't happy when I saw the abbreviated season from MotoAmerica, especially with MidO off the list. And with Indy out of MotoGP, I'm now a plane ticket away from the elite racing too. Is what it is, but I wish we had another world class venue within a reasonable drive to catch the world's best in action.

I tell ya, if I'd have won the 528 million, there would be a group of engineers working overtime designing a badass SEOhio facility with my name on it...but alas, back to work I go. Maybe someday things will come around again.

[whaler]

BSB definitely has some awesome race action. I managed to watch a few rounds last year and it was excellent, just haven't really followed it closely. But with the lack of US racing now, I just may. I really wasn't happy when I saw the abbreviated season from MotoAmerica, especially with MidO off the list. And with Indy out of MotoGP, I'm now a plane ticket away from the elite racing too. Is what it is, but I wish we had another world class venue within a reasonable drive to catch the world's best in action.

I tell ya, if I'd have won the 528 million, there would be a group of engineers working overtime designing a badass SEOhio facility with my name on it...but alas, back to work I go. Maybe someday things will come around again.

Right!

[redkow97]

I think it's easy to talk about retired heroes as if they're still invincible, but I reject the idea that today's top riders are any less talented than the guys from 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

The field isn't as deep, because the sponsorship and prize money have dried up, not because there are fewer talented riders.

Yes, the kids are more comfortable with the electronic aids. That doesn't mean they're slow without them. I just spent the weekend watching a 14 and 15 yr old keep up with Josh Herrin on mini bikes with 6hp and garbage suspension. The kids don't NEED the electronics, but they have less trouble adapting to them.

[Lawrence1]

Gotta agree with Redkow about the strength of the field, or it's at least debatable. The AMA did seem like more of a farm team league back then. We now have Wayne Rainey working to "reinvigorate" road racing in America, so there's hope. Let's face it though, America loves dirt bikes more.

If the manufacturer's think electronic systems (aids?) are the way to go faster then that's a big part of what I want to see, even if it means one guy way out front. You're still watching the best rider on the best machine.

Miladin is a good example, back then a lot of people were saying "Suzuki is ruining everything" I said isn't Suzuki supposed to build and campaign the best machine they can come up with? Aren't they supposed to come up with the best rider they can find? Kudos to Suzuki. You knew it wouldn't last.

[redkow97]

There are competing interests at play.

 

MotoAmerica has 2 (stated) objectives:  1) Develop youth talent for road racing in America, and 2) put on a good show so that they can turn a profit for their investors. 

 

Those goals aren't always going to be perfectly congruent.  (IMHO) Spec racing is the absolute best (most entertaining) product any race series can offer.  It showcases rider skill (theoretically) over budget and equipment choice.  On the down-side, it cuts out all but 1 manufacturer.  But limiting the equipment also limits the riders.   There are fundamental flaws in training young riders for Moto 3 by racing machines that have little in common with Moto 3 bikes.  Any series sponsor is trying to sell STREET bikes, and that is what they will want raced.

 

That is about as succinctly as I can summarize the quandary of road racing in America.   It's a catch-22.   Americans aren't as interested in international racing, because there aren't (m)any Americans racing at the world level - but to get more Americans racing at the world level, we need to develop talent in our domestic series, which is going to be supported (financially) by street-based bike manufacturers (if we're lucky).

 

...Then we need to start considering the scope of a national series in a country as large as America.  The travel expenses are ridiculous for AMA/MotoAmerica, if you plan to run the whole series.  I really think they need to regionalize, and only run 3 National rounds (including the season finale).

[whaler]

There are competing interests at play.

MotoAmerica has 2 (stated) objectives: 1) Develop youth talent for road racing in America, and 2) put on a good show so that they can turn a profit for their investors.

Those goals aren't always going to be perfectly congruent. (IMHO) Spec racing is the absolute best (most entertaining) product any race series can offer. It showcases rider skill (theoretically) over budget and equipment choice. On the down-side, it cuts out all but 1 manufacturer. But limiting the equipment also limits the riders. There are fundamental flaws in training young riders for Moto 3 by racing machines that have little in common with Moto 3 bikes. Any series sponsor is trying to sell STREET bikes, and that is what they will want raced.

That is about as succinctly as I can summarize the quandary of road racing in America. It's a catch-22. Americans aren't as interested in international racing, because there aren't (m)any Americans racing at the world level - but to get more Americans racing at the world level, we need to develop talent in our domestic series, which is going to be supported (financially) by street-based bike manufacturers (if we're lucky).

...Then we need to start considering the scope of a national series in a country as large as America. The travel expenses are ridiculous for AMA/MotoAmerica, if you plan to run the whole series. I really think they need to regionalize, and only run 3 National rounds (including the season finale).

You are over thinking it.

[redkow97]

You are over thinking it.

 

I don't believe I am.  I'm looking at the failures of past and current racing series in the US, and looking for resolutions.  Spec racing on (relatively) inexpensive bikes increases participation.  The KTM 390's are a good example.  Every one of those races was entertaining, and it's got kids learning real racecraft ...assuming they can afford to travel across the country all summer.

[whaler]

I don't believe I am.  I'm looking at the failures of past and current racing series in the US, and looking for resolutions.  Spec racing on (relatively) inexpensive bikes increases participation.  The KTM 390's are a good example.  Every one of those races was entertaining, and it's got kids learning real racecraft ...assuming they can afford to travel across the country all summer.

 

The spec class argument has merit in the lower classes (390's, 600 Super Sport), as it allows a relatively low cost racing option and you are not required to have a team of engineers to make the bike go fast.  Why do we need two 600SS classes?  its confusing to casual fans and makes no sense compared to other national series.  Running Superbike and 1000 SuperStock is also a bad idea and also confusing to the casual race fan.  The even bigger tragedy is the redundant and crossover classes are more confusing to would be marketing departments who have no idea what class or why they should dump money into a series that has no identity.

 

We derailed in AMA when DMG dumbed the Superbikes down to far and the class structure did not match other national or international series.  When you can go from series to series and ride the same spec equipment, it makes it much more palitable for the Factory teams to field bikes.  The other big factor is keeping the rules relatively constant so teams do not have to reinvent the wheel every season.  From 2004 to 2013 I don't think the rules were the same for more than a season, and 2008 to 2013 the class structure seemed to change at a constant rate sometimes multiple times a season.  The constant rule and spec changes were ultimately what drove out the factory teams.  

 

The whole idea of NASCAR type spec class restrictions across the board did not do anything but damage the AMA series.

[redkow97]

I agree that there is no reason to have multiple classes of the same displacement, but not that allowing fewer modifications is 'ruining' anything.  Keeping things cheap allows more teams to be competitive.  That makes it a rider's sport rather than a competition to see who can spend the most. 

 

true "spec" racing won't happen, because they want to include as many manufacturers as possible - but keeping the rules tight means that there are fewer engineering costs to being competitive.  Put the pressure on Yamaha to build a better R1 (they did...) rather than having Graves spend god knows how much money making the last generation turd competitive.