little political vid

[fusion]

Well no we aren't defending the American way of life, our constitution, the flag or anything else in Iraq. Should Saddam have been ousted eventually? yup. Should the US have lead the charge? nope, we have other crap we need to take care of. Hell we didn't even finish in Afghanistan before we went into Iraq. Not to mention they had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks or terrorism in general. Was Iraq a threat to the US? Not even close. Not a single soldier that has died or is dying currently in Iraq is dying for Americans here.

[robhawk]

So we are all a bunch of hippies that must not agree with any war this great country has been in, even if it was for the sake of human rights and human preservation, which is defending freedom!! regardless of who's soil it is on. Sometimes you have to fight, if we lived by your views we wouldn't have this country in the first place. So if me and countless others wasted our time over there (some up to 4 yrs) lemme see you tell that to there face. In fact why don't you do it this weekend in our nations capital. And don't bring up the free speech BS cause thats not what this is about its about a very small level of respect that we should show this nations Veterans.

It just pisses me off knowing some would rather cower than fight, and liberating that country was a good thing, I've seen it with my own two eyes.

[fusion]

So we are all a bunch of hippies that must not agree with any war this great country has been in, even if it was for the sake of human rights and human preservation, which is defending freedom!! regardless of who's soil it is on. Sometimes you have to fight, if we lived by your views we wouldn't have this country in the first place. So if me and countless others wasted our time over there (some up to 4 yrs) lemme see you tell that to there face. In fact why don't you do it this weekend in our nations capital. And don't bring up the free speech BS cause thats not what this is about its about a very small level of respect that we should show this nations Veterans.

It just pisses me off knowing some would rather cower than fight, and liberating that country was a good thing, I've seen it with my own two eyes.

Wow I hope you're not responding to me. If you are I think I'll just ignore you, because you must be some kind of illiterate retard*.

*no offense to the mentally ill.

[robhawk]

Wow I hope you're not responding to me. If you are I think I'll just ignore you, because you must be some kind of illiterate retard*.

*no offense to the mentally ill.

Maybe that came out wrong, it was not meant to start some kind of childish fight, its just hard to stomach someone telling me I spent a year of my life away from my family and was about killed countless times, for nothing. If I offended you in any way I'm sorry and did not mean to as you are entitled to your opinion. Just put your self in my shoes, all I ask for is a little respect towards those who have served. And please lets not start name calling, I was not calling you a hippie directly.

[fusion]

First, if you've read my other posts in this thread you'll see I'm ex-military. You'll also see my wife is ex-military and you'll see I grew up on bases all my life as military brat on top of that. Fortunately I wasn't deployed since there wasn't a major conflict during the time I was enlisted. My wife was in a tent city for a while in Korea and my Dad was in Desert Storm. I have countless friends who have been to Iraq for combined tours quite a bit longer than yours. There is also a good number of those same friends who also believe we shouldn't be there.

Yeah it sucks you might be killed or might be killing for what basically adds up to nothing, but hey that's life. The only people who are disrespecting the troops and the public are those who don't want to go to jail for screwing up. Even the ex-head of the NSA said the information on the WMDs was wrong amongst other things.

WMDs...remember those? Yeah THE reason Bush gave for entering Iraq. NOT to liberate the Iraqi people. You might remember Powell's big hoopla over it in front of the UN about it as well.

If we were truly interested in spreading freedom through out the world there are many other places we should have been going into closer to home: Cuba, Venezuela...

It's more respectful to be honest about what is happening there than to lie about it and spin it into something it isn't.

[NinjaNick]

say you dont want to wear the american flag pin because it doesent say that you are patriotic! Thats the point of the flag to show who you are loyal to and where you are from.

The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. But, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

http://www.flagkeepers.org/FlagRules.asp

[robhawk]

"It's more respectful to be honest about what is happening there than to lie about it and spin it into something it isn't."

I have not lied about anything, only stated my feelings and shared from my experiences.

And I'm truly sorry I did not no that you were a Veteran also Fusion, thank you for your service.

[Disclaimer]

I still think you're overlooking my point robhawk, but I'll start by addressing some of yours.

Yes, "we" elected the president. Though not by a peoples majority, but through tainted ballot counting and a flawed electoral college system... I mention all that because it's pertinent, but off topic to where I'm going.

Congress does have to approve war per the Consitution, but has it since voluntarily limited that power to "Authorizations of Use of Military Force" (AUMFs). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States.

Without getting into nitty gritty details, since 9-11 a lot of these rules have changed. Mainly, the power of the president to use military force for national security and defense to allowing the president much wider control (including the power of preemptive strike) of the military. So, all in all, it IS in the presidents hands - the only thing Congress can do now is control the budget (i.e. cut funding), which we all know is not a very politically savvy move.

You go on to say that Saddam killed many people. Call me insensitive, but why is that any issue for us as the United States? I may not agree with what Saddam does, but it's not our job to spread democracy, it's our job to preserve it (guardian of freedom and American way of life, not enforcer of freedom and American ways). And, it's not like we're any better...the US kills people too - we still employ the death penalty don't we? In some cases it's justified according to US logic - just look at it as Saddam being a little more expedient at dealing justice. It's hypocritical to denouce the gov't execution of civilians when we do it ourselves no matter if it's 1 or 1 million.

Going on to your following post...

The hippie/liberal labeling does get awful tiresome. Just because some people have progressive views does not make them hippies. The difference in opinion in this case comes from what justifies the Iraqi war. I agree that fighting is sometimes necessary, be it on a national scale, or in your personal life -- but it should be a last resort, once all other options have been exhausted...and, should be used in defense, not as an offensive bullying tactic, or for economic gain. This is why on the global stage, the US has little credibility and our foreign policy is a joke. The basic feeling I get from the articles I read and the expats I talk to are the the US is becoming "that guy". The big dumb rich jock of the world that everyone tolerates because we bankroll a significant portion of the global economy and have the strongest military.

This has nothing to do with the soldiers themselves. They took an oath and I give them the utmost respect for what they do (many of my friends from high school have just returned from their 2nd or even 3rd tours of duty there), but don't you ever question "authority"? The country isn't run by people with PhDs, it's run by common men, who are flawed. We as "the people" have every reason to question them and critique their thought processes because they are no better than us. Obviously, Bush's credibility is shot and has been for some time now. If I would have served (I would've been in the USAF, but that's another story for another day), I would be awful upset I was lied to and potentially put in harms way for trivial reasons even though I was told I was "protecting freedom". Fusion's quote on pg 1 from the Nazi leader Hermann Goering pretty much sums it up.

[fusion]

"It's more respectful to be honest about what is happening there than to lie about it and spin it into something it isn't."

I have not lied about anything, only stated my feelings and shared from my experiences.

And I'm truly sorry I did not no that you were a Veteran also Fusion, thank you for your service.

Sorry I wasn't inferring you were lying, but that our country's leadership wasn't being completely honest.

You're welcome and thank you for yours as well.

[Disclaimer]

The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. But, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

http://www.flagkeepers.org/FlagRules.asp

Speaking of flag rules....

Did Sarah Palin desecrate the American flag?

In a video from the campaign trail, the ex-Alaska governor appears to violate the Flag Code

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/10/20/sarah_palin_american_flag