El Karacho1647545492 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Alcoholism! I define alcoholism as the genetic predisposition of a person to abuse alcoholic substances, either in excess or for the wrong reasons. I'm an alcoholic. My family history dictates that I'm genetically predisposed to abuse alcohol, which I find myself doing before I've reached the legal age to drink. Whether its harming people around me is the question, but undoubtedly I will have to realize I can't drink as much as I'd like to because it'd be harmful to others as well as myself. I don't think alcoholism is a disease, or a "condition". I think there are those who drink more than they should despite having no family history of alcoholism. Their children may inherit their bad habits, both through observing the behavior or through genetics, but I really think alcoholism is something you cannot help, though it is conquerable if you're not a weak bitch. All this coming from a guy who never met his grandfather because he drank himself to the grave when he was 50, and who is watching his uncle do the same thing at the age of 60. What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PonyPimpstress1647545491 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I don't think that is true at all. I'm walking proof that you have a choice. My father, his father, and his brother and sister are all alcoholics. My brother and I are no alcoholics by any stretch of the imagination. I used to drink alot before I started dating my fiance, and even continued a bit after we started. I was in my party stage. I have a corp. job now and a life and simply don't feel the need to drink as much as I used to. Altho I can understand where you are comming from. I used to think that if I continued down the path that I was going I'd be right were my father and his side of the family are. I made a choice to drink socially, which boils down to maybe once a month. It's not an easy choice because you will feel like you will lose alot of your friends. If you tend to hang with people that drink all the time and haven't grown out of that stage yet, you may feel lonely or even bored at first. But you'll find other things/hobbies to do. Good luck if you make the choice to fight it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I think that alcoholism as a genetic predisposition is as plausible as chocolate addiction having genetic roots. It isn’t unlikely, however, that there are certain chemical imbalances that are inherited which lead to certain dependencies or an outright addictive personality. The reality of it is that people want to remove themselves from blame. Whether blaming an "obesity gene" or the latest "spontaneous anger outburst syndrome" (or something), if people have something to blame their weakness on they are no longer responsible for their shortcomings. Additionally, since Lamarckian genetics was prove false long ago, spontaneous generation of genetic dispositions appearing in a few generations is not an accepted reality. The presence of alcohol in the grand scheme of the human time line is nothing more than a blip, a genetic disposition favoring alcoholism developing within those relatively few generations just isn’t realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old dirty bastard Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 though it is conquerable if you're not a weak bitch. Thats what I always thought.I did the drinking thing when I was younger w/ my friends most could control it, some couldn't and some(like me) just quit all together. My father was a heavy drinker I watched him drink all my life did that mean I would drink like that fuck no. My .02 is that Alcholism isn't inherited thats just a cop out(people need excuses to justify shit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedline Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 ^2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I don't think that is true at all. I'm walking proof that you have a choice. My father, his father, and his brother and sister are all alcoholics. My brother and I are no alcoholics by any stretch of the imagination. I used to drink alot before I started dating my fiance, and even continued a bit after we started. I was in my party stage. I have a corp. job now and a life and simply don't feel the need to drink as much as I used to. Altho I can understand where you are comming from. I used to think that if I continued down the path that I was going I'd be right were my father and his side of the family are. I made a choice to drink socially, which boils down to maybe once a month. It's not an easy choice because you will feel like you will lose alot of your friends. If you tend to hang with people that drink all the time and haven't grown out of that stage yet, you may feel lonely or even bored at first. But you'll find other things/hobbies to do. Good luck if you make the choice to fight it! Ditto here. The key is replacing one habit with another not so bad. :burn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 It isn’t unlikely, however, that there are certain chemical imbalances that are inherited which lead to certain dependencies or an outright addictive personality. a winnar is you! both of my parents are alcoholics. both have been or are addicted to other drugs as well. if asked, i will tell you that i am an alcoholic or a drug addict waiting to happen. what keeps it from happening? my will. i have chosen not to drink, nor to use recreational drugs. so, the "gene" in me lies dormant. at least where chemical addiction is concerned. choose not to drink, and there, youve conquered alcoholism. you can find yourself addicted to anything. a sport, sex, a game, a routine, the gym, etc, etc. its just that chemical addictions tend to be quite a bit more illegal and thusly, carry quite a bit more of a social stigma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pomade Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Hidden within this debate is another debate: determinism versus free will. DJ has seemingly propped himself deftly on the fence by declaring that he overrides his fate with free will. Neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMeanGreen Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I'm genetically predisposed to levitate and read people's minds. I choose not to, it gives me a headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 this thread had so much going for it...then the good doctor and CR's Uberherr (anthony) showed up and destroyed it...i'm just waiting for some jailbait porn from sam to send this to the fate of every other cr thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Hidden within this debate is another debate: determinism versus free will. DJ has seemingly propped himself deftly on the fence by declaring that he overrides his fate with free will. Neat. lol. come on up, its not barbed wire or anything. on a more serious note, the debate over determinism vs. free will is, in my opinion, more of a spiritual/transcedant discussion than the one regarding alcoholism. to say that ive chosen not to drink is an absolute. to say that ive chosen not to die in a hurricane is quite a bit more subjective. ther are some thing you can only minimize your chances of doing, and some things you can abstain from indefinately. [/thread rescue] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck531 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I'm not sure if it's genetic or not. My dad wasn't a big drinker. I have no idea about my grandparents as they left the family like 1-2 years after my parents were born. I do know this. I'm the youngest of 4 brothers. One is 44, then 42, then 37 (he would have been 37, he passed away when he was 22), then there's me.. 30. The 42 year old, and me, like to drink. Whereas, my oldest brother and the 37 dont' drink that much. I mean, they drink every now and then, but not too bad. Now. the 42 and me are quite the drinkers. He likes to drink liquour and I'm mainly a beer person. However, he does drink beer too. I'm guessing we both drink every day. I don't drink to get sloshed, I dont' hammer them down either. I just drink maybe 6ish beers a day just because I like the taste of beer. Not because I want to get sloshed. My brother on the other hand, I'm guessing drinks more than I do (I haven't seen him in years, but I know he still drinks). I also don't wake up the morning craving a beer. The only time I really drink is after work, after dinner and I'm just chilling. There are times that I could put down a good 18 beers in a day if i felt like it and feel fine. If I started drinking around the early afternoon on a weekend I could put down 18+ beers. I don't do that too often anymore. I just like the taste of beer. no more, no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 drinking is in my blood... and I don't require booze to survive nor do i crave it... but i will tell you... when I do drink, I get it done... so the question is, am I just having a good time or am I an alcholic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck531 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 drinking is in my blood... and I don't require booze to survive nor do i crave it... but i will tell you... when I do drink, I get it done... so the question is, am I just having a good time or am I an alcholic? +1. I don't need it to survive either. It's not like I wake up in the morning and before I put my feet on the floor take a big swig of a drink or anything. On the other hand, I CAN say I'm addicted to Cigarattes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pomade Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 this thread had so much going for it...then the good doctor and CR's Uberherr (anthony) showed up and destroyed it...i'm just waiting for some jailbait porn from sam to send this to the fate of every other cr thread Hey, wait a second, I thought my comment was still in line with the spirit of this thread. Sorry, it certainly wasn't my intent to derail it. Besides, I'd think you'd prefer me doing what I did instead of taking you to task for vascillating intra-post on your stance on alcoholism (e.g., implying that alcoholism is beyond a person's control, yet asserting that a person can control it). on a more serious note, the debate over determinism vs. free will is, in my opinion, more of a spiritual/transcedant discussion than the one regarding alcoholism. to say that ive chosen not to drink is an absolute. to say that ive chosen not to die in a hurricane is quite a bit more subjective. ther are some thing you can only minimize your chances of doing, and some things you can abstain from indefinately. [/thread rescue] Okay, I can buy that. My impression is that you - DJ - subscribe to a diathesis-stress model of alcoholism. In that model, both genetic and environment influences interact in a dynamic fashion to result in the manifestation of the pathology. So, while a person may have a "gene" for alcoholism, that gene really cannot be expressed in the phenotype unless, of course, the person drinks alcohol. Similarly, you could have a "gene" for obesity, but you'll never get fat unless you eat enough food. The diathesis-stress model is a bit more inclusive and allows for more flexibility in determining etiology as opposed to the more dualistic (and inflexibile) genetics versus environment (i.e., "nature versus nurture") application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 My impression is that you - DJ - subscribe to a diathesis-stress model of alcoholism. In that model, both genetic and environment influences interact in a dynamic fashion to result in the manifestation of the pathology. So, while a person may have a "gene" for alcoholism, that gene really cannot be expressed in the phenotype unless, of course, the person drinks alcohol. Similarly, you could have a "gene" for obesity, but you'll never get fat unless you eat enough food. The diathesis-stress model is a bit more inclusive and allows for more flexibility in determining etiology as opposed to the more dualistic (and inflexibile) genetics versus environment (i.e., "nature versus nurture") application. you are correct sir. according to obi-wan, only the sith deal in absolutes, and i wont be joining the darkside until later on this evening. ive been to more meetings, and spent more time in rehab than any non-alcoholic i know. i spent an entire summer at parkside one year, because i was trying to understand what had happened to my mother. i got more than a few sideways glances for being there whilst being totally clean. to be honest, as the good doc put it, i really believe that its a mixture of what you choose and what youre made of. is it a disease? i suppose it is, but it may be one of the only diseases you suffer from as a result of a conscious choice. nobody i know has ever "chosen" to suffer from cancer. (wether or not choosing to smoke means choosing cancer is another debatable topic) every person i know who suffers from alcoholism, at one point, chose to drink. and as a direct result, well, you get the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 There are no genetic predispositions to do anything, just everything. What you say? Lemme put it to you like this. "Oh my dad and grandad drank heavily, so do I, what do you call it?" I call it being rased to fuckin drink. The psycological effects of your parents behavior go far beond what you might think. Its why divorce rates are up, its why obesity is up, and its why alcoholism is thought to be "genetic". They're behivior determines yours. My dad had to attend AA some 5 years before I was born. My brother had to battle himself out of substance abuse as well. Never in my life did I see my dad touch a beer untill I was about 19 years old. I never saw alcohol as a means to anything but stupidity, Dad made sure I saw that. My bro didn't pay much attention. As a result of my raising, do I abstain? No, Idont, I drink good beer when its available. Do I drink for the buzz? No. Only twice in my life have I been "stupid drunk". I dont avoid alcohol at all, why am I not a lush? I was raised not to do shit in excess, and unlike my beloved brother, I listened. It was a choice. Are you an alcoholic because your dad was? Perhaps, but it's not genetic, its behavioral, you've always got a choice. Everyone has a genetic predisposition for substance abuse. The Me's and DJs of the world dont have a problem with it be cause we know when to stop. Alcoholism definition: Drinking for the burpose of getting a buzz. If you endure shitty beer for a buzz, you are an alcoholic and are on the path to destruction, you have no chance to survive, MAKE YOUR TIME, ALL YOUR BEER ARE BELONG TO US! Dj and Doctor Jon make this thread a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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