Progress report, more speeding ticket drama

[turbosi44]

YOUR PISSING IN THE WIND! you should stop now while your ahead. One of my best freinds is a state trooper and they find it funny when some one trys to get out of a ticket with the whole calibration thing, becuse it never works.

[Science Abuse]

If it's law, it should absolutely work. But beleive me, that's not all I've got.

 

If a judge rules against some one who proved that the device is not calibrated, and there is a law stating that it must, the judge not only leaves the case open to appeal, he also leaves himself open to prosecution.

[turbosi44]

What device are you speaking of? and how do you know the status on its calibration

[Science Abuse]

He used VASCAR. Every time you you have anything calibrated, you're given a certificate. Chances are he'll be bringing that with him, like you said this defence is common. But there more to it then that, and my case in particular has alot of contributing factors. Not the least of which; the fact that I was going 55mph because I saw the cop, probably before he saw me.

[Skinner]

hey eric.

 

just spoke with my neighbor about this (CPD). when asking about VASCAR and how often its calibrated its done at the begining of every shift. Also all the equipment is certified on a regular basis.

 

At your first court appearance if you ask about a no points violation they will not talk with you about this or offer anything. If the cop is not there to agrue the case the prosicuter will not talk deal. when you resch. the court date is when you can ask for a no points hit.

 

Also talking with him if you try to fight it you will lose. the only chance you will have of winning is if the officer does not show.

 

So again best thing i can recommend is to hask for a no points hit and be on your merry way.

[SpaceGhost]

hey eric.

 

just spoke with my neighbor about this (CPD). when asking about VASCAR and how often its calibrated its done at the begining of every shift. Also all the equipment is certified on a regular basis.

 

At your first court appearance if you ask about a no points violation they will not talk with you about this or offer anything. If the cop is not there to agrue the case the prosicuter will not talk deal. when you resch. the court date is when you can ask for a no points hit.

 

Also talking with him if you try to fight it you will lose. the only chance you will have of winning is if the officer does not show.

 

So again best thing i can recommend is to hask for a no points hit and be on your merry way.

 

SO not true Shawn you should know better than to type this crap just because you got it from a cpd officer. Officers are not lawers.

 

At the first appearence the proscuter has every right and will drop some charges if he wants to or "amend" some charges if he wants to. The cop does not apear there. I have DONE this many times. The CPD officer you are speaking to is full of shit and is mostlikely feeding you what he is supossed to tell you.

 

Second if the cop is not at the second appearence the case will be dismissed period, the states case has no witness.....

 

Shawn I have been in court many times, I know this stuff because I have done it. I will gladly take you with me next time I get a ticket and have to go to court......

 

Eric keep fighting! I believe both cops have to be in court, one in the aircraft and the one that wrote the ticket.

[SpaceGhost]

Shawn I'm not sure you know what vascar is:

 

VASCAR (Visual Average Speed Computer and Recorder) is really a stopwatch coupled with a calculator. Once a distance is entered, the operator pushes a button to start then stop the stopwatch. VASCAR displays the speed calculated from the distance entered and the time measured.

 

Thus, a VASCAR measurement depends on human input. Therefore, in order to make a VASCAR measurement as accurate as possible, the observer's/operator's reaction time must be as short as possible. (Reaction time is defined as "the time interval between an input signal (physiological) or a stimulus (psychophysiological) and the response elicited by the signal.)

 

What is considered "normal" human reaction time? First, let's take a look at the best: Drag racers. Average reaction time of (Top Fuel) drag racers at the 1997 U.S. Nationals was 0.124 ± 0.082 second. Imagine that our cop running VASCAR is a super cop, with drag racer like reaction times: What kind of error is introduced into the VASCAR speed measurement by a reaction time of 0.124 second? With the numbers testified to by our cop:

 

Distance

_________________ = Measured Speed

 

Real time ± Error

 

 

100

____________ = 60.096 feet/second (40.97 mph)

 

1.54 + 0.124

 

 

or

 

 

100

____________ = 70.621 feet/second (48.15 mph)

 

1.54 - 0.124

 

depending on whether the cop was 0.124 second too quick or too late.

 

The calculation above takes into consideration only one opportunity for error. However, the cop must not only start the VASCAR's stopwatch, but he also must stop it. Thus, he can introduce the error twice:

 

100

____________ = 55.928 feet/second (38.13 mph)

 

1.54 + 0.248

 

 

or

 

 

100

____________ = 77.399 feet/second (52.77 mph)

 

1.54 - 0.248

 

Looks like we are getting some error margin here: it is almost 15 mph. But wait a minute: the cop alleged that he clocked our man 66 mph (96.8 feet/second). If true, the elapsed time over 100 feet distance was 1.033 second. The error in speed reading introduced by human reaction time becomes even more severe:

 

100

_____________ = 78.064 feet/second (53.225 mph)

 

1.033 + 0.248

 

 

or

 

 

100

_____________ = 127.388 feet/second (86.855 mph)

 

1.033 - 0.248

 

WOW! An error margin of more than 33 mph! And remember, we assumed that the super cop in this example has reaction times similar to a drag racer!

[Skinner]

SO not true Shawn you should know better than to type this crap just because you got it from a cpd officer. Officers are not lawers.

 

At the first appearence the proscuter has every right and will drop some charges if he wants to or "amend" some charges if he wants to. The cop does not apear there. I have DONE this many times. The CPD officer you are speaking to is full of shit and is mostlikely feeding you what he is supossed to tell you.

 

Second if the cop is not at the second appearence the case will be dismissed period, the states case has no witness.....

 

Shawn I have been in court many times, I know this dtuff because I have done it. I will gladly take you with me next time I get a ticket and have to go to court......

 

just going by what i was told. he may be wrong about the court aspect of it. If you like you can discuss it with him (hes a CR member "sawbinder"). But as for the calibration and cert info hes right. Either way I was jsut trying to give eric as much info as possible thats all. Now go ralley your car or something. :)

[SpaceGhost]

He is right on the calb. that is correct I am not arguing that. Vascar has human error in it and his speed is not that much over the limit......

 

Remember innocent until proven guilty without reasonable doubt. All he has to prove is reasonable doubt in the reaction time of the officer.

[Skinner]

Shawn I'm not sure you know what vascar is:

 

VASCAR (Visual Average Speed Computer and Recorder) is really a stopwatch coupled with a calculator. Once a distance is entered, the operator pushes a button to start then stop the stopwatch. VASCAR displays the speed calculated from the distance entered and the time measured.

 

Thus, a VASCAR measurement depends on human input. Therefore, in order to make a VASCAR measurement as accurate as possible, the observer's/operator's reaction time must be as short as possible. (Reaction time is defined as "the time interval between an input signal (physiological) or a stimulus (psychophysiological) and the response elicited by the signal.)

 

What is considered "normal" human reaction time? First, let's take a look at the best: Drag racers. Average reaction time of (Top Fuel) drag racers at the 1997 U.S. Nationals was 0.124 ± 0.082 second. Imagine that our cop running VASCAR is a super cop, with drag racer like reaction times: What kind of error is introduced into the VASCAR speed measurement by a reaction time of 0.124 second? With the numbers testified to by our cop:

 

Distance

_________________ = Measured Speed

 

Real time ± Error

 

 

100

____________ = 60.096 feet/second (40.97 mph)

 

1.54 + 0.124

 

 

or

 

 

100

____________ = 70.621 feet/second (48.15 mph)

 

1.54 - 0.124

 

depending on whether the cop was 0.124 second too quick or too late.

 

The calculation above takes into consideration only one opportunity for error. However, the cop must not only start the VASCAR's stopwatch, but he also must stop it. Thus, he can introduce the error twice:

 

100

____________ = 55.928 feet/second (38.13 mph)

 

1.54 + 0.248

 

 

or

 

 

100

____________ = 77.399 feet/second (52.77 mph)

 

1.54 - 0.248

 

Looks like we are getting some error margin here: it is almost 15 mph. But wait a minute: the cop alleged that he clocked our man 66 mph (96.8 feet/second). If true, the elapsed time over 100 feet distance was 1.033 second. The error in speed reading introduced by human reaction time becomes even more severe:

 

100

_____________ = 78.064 feet/second (53.225 mph)

 

1.033 + 0.248

 

 

or

 

 

100

_____________ = 127.388 feet/second (86.855 mph)

 

1.033 - 0.248

 

WOW! An error margin of more than 33 mph! And remember, we assumed that the super cop in this example has reaction times similar to a drag racer!

 

 

great info, you have too much time on your hands.

 

I understand the process of how it works but from all of erics posts he is trying to put into question is the calibration and certificate of said equipment. Speaking with my neighbor on its use its certified regularly and calibrated at every shift. with tunning forks no less. one fork for 35 mph and one for 45 is it reads those tones correctly is within spec (from my understanding). All I'm getting at if he argues the certification we will lose.

Also if tries to argue the methods that the officer used I can bet he will lose that as well.

[Science Abuse]

great info, you have too much time on your hands.

 

It's not his, it's copy/pasted from a gentlmans PA case. I've read this also.

 

And Shawn, I'm not going to attack the calibration of the VASCAR device. I've been reasonably careful not to drop my pants entirely in these posts, I've got a good many things going for me. If I actualy do get a fair trial, where the judge is not also trying to collect $ for the state, I will win because it is not possible for the State to prove that I was speeding, because I was not.

Of course, I have no faith in the system.

[Skinner]

good luck with that.

[Science Abuse]

Wait, a tuning fork?? Are you sure he wasn't talking about a radar gun? A VASCAR is a stopwatch and a calculator. WW2 bombers had mechanical versions of these.

[Skinner]

Wait, a tuning fork?? Are you sure he wasn't talking about a radar gun? A VASCAR is a stopwatch and a calculator. WW2 bombers had mechanical versions of these.

 

 

yeah a tuning fork he may have been thinking of radar instead.

[old dirty bastard]

yup... I hoed his old mustang with the turbo donkey on the freeway

 

the same way my new car is going to hoe your trans am

R.I.P Da donkey

[Mowgli1647545497]

Somewhere along the way here, I missed where, this changed from "I was speeding but so was everyone else" to "I was not speeding". What did I miss?

[Science Abuse]

I was not in violation of ORC 4511.21 (A). I never said I was speeding, I said I was traveling at the same speed as everyone else.

[Mr. Jones]

I was not in violation of ORC 4511.21 (A). I never said I was speeding, I said I was traveling at the same speed as everyone else.

 

 

Are you sure you havn't violated ORC CODE: ID.10T (!)

 

?

[Science Abuse]

Are you sure you havn't violated ORC CODE: ID.10T (!)

 

?

Ummmmm I plead da fiz'if!

[SPLN SUX]

Just plea bargin... its easier... sure the judge may throw the book at you to "get your attention", as she did me, but all in all i didnt have it that bad... i walked away with a $500 fine, a defensive driving certificate, a 6mnth slap on the hand, and 2pts... big fuckin woop. CrUz c0ntR0lL 4 liF3 y0!

[Science Abuse]

I'm not a kid and my attention does not need to be gotten. My attention was gotten in february with my last ticket, this one is bogus.

[MrMeanGreen]

How many of you are stupid enough to believe that "no points" doesn't show up on your insurance?

 

It does, I know because my four DMV points show up as 14 (two speeding w/ points, five "no points" speeding) insurance points, thanks to their automated underwriting system. Which, in addition, assigns the highest risk drive to the highest risk vehicle. My wife drives the Formula as a daily, according to their "system", which assigned me 14 points as well.

 

Eric, forget the retarded calibration excuse, unless it was VASCAR. Look here:

 

http://travel.3dresearch.com/prep1.html

 

Human error, calibration not required. As for the court date, Stillman hit it right on. You waived your right to a speedy trial, but that doesn't mean they can't still pencil you in for the soonest availability. Very strange for Franklin County, mine are usually months away after the arraignment. Speaking of, you cannot plea at the arraignment in FC, just enter your plea. They start discussions at the next round, the trial.

 

If you need a continuance, you have to go down yourself unless physically prevented from doing so, like being in a hospital. The other option, which I use extensively, is the use of an attorney. Once you get the attorney involved, they'll do the arraignment and pre-trial shit, even get continuances. However (in most cases, I've gotten away with this once), you're required to be there at the actual trial/sentancing, with your attorney present. This is the time to let them handle things.

 

Back to you, you see the options and what you have to look forward to. I've done this NINE times in the last 18 months in Franklin County, and let's not go into my record over the last ten years throughout six states.

 

Ben, you are incorrect. You got lucky, as Franklin County will automatically allot one continuance to a case on behalf of the reporting officer. If they don't show, the case gets continued by the county on their behalf and against your will, unless you plead then and accept it. Otherwise, you come back. If they don't show a second time, and it reaches the end of the cycle, then they dismiss it, although they try to pressure you first into pleading before throwing in the towel.

[MrMeanGreen]

Oh, and learn to spell before I ban you.

 

USE THIS!

 

http://www.johnvey.com/blog/2006/05/ajax-spellcheck-as-you-type

[mrblunt]

In my past experience I had a sheriff (the first one i've ever met that wasn't cool as F, he was the biggest prick Evar!) who showed up to court but had a dentist appt the same day. You better believe they made my ass wait until he was done. They gave him like 2 hours or so to return. After he didn't make it back I thought I was scott free. Nope. His written report was enough and they sent another sheriff to be there on his behalf. I can't tell you for sure how reliable the whole argument is about the cop not being there will get you out of the ticket, in my experience it didn't seem to matter.

[Kevin R.]

In my past experience I had a sheriff (the first one i've ever met that wasn't cool as F, he was the biggest prick Evar!) who showed up to court but had a dentist appt the same day. You better believe they made my ass wait until he was done. They gave him like 2 hours or so to return. After he didn't make it back I thought I was scott free. Nope. His written report was enough and they sent another sheriff to be there on his behalf. I can't tell you for sure how reliable the whole argument is about the cop not being there will get you out of the ticket, in my experience it didn't seem to matter.

 

It might have if you made a point of it like SpaceGhost did...