Tractor Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 I don't care how many have died. So far we haven't even came to the number who died in a single major engagment of any previous major war so I say its all worth it if by some chance the dems don't mess it up and we get a stable middle east for a few years. I'm for bush 90% the only things I don't agree with him on are some of his domestic policies that he was kinda forced into making to keep the dems happy while he's pwning arabs. Don't bother fighting me on this I"m probably more informed than 99% of the younger guys on here. Though their are alot of very well informed on both sides. I do agree that we need 2 or more sides to argue back and forth though so we can keep the democratic balance. Keep up the good bitching:-) Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 I understand he did this. I never said Clinton was a good president, or Clinton is better then Bush. I never said Bush was the devil either. Clinton did some bad things in his term, im not going to say otherwise. Clinton did help get our debt under control. Bush on the other hand made us go into debt worse. I think I remember reading something about Bush was taking money out of the social security fund. Isn't that illegal? I also heard Bush has made the most presidential pardons then any other president in the past. I am just calling it as I see it. No one president or party is going to be perfect. I voted for Kerry because I felt he was the lesser of 2 evils. And I am a registered Independent Voter. I am not a left wing liberal so don't call me one. 1. How did Clinton help us get out of debt? His administration was a post war admin, of course the economy and debt was going to look better. As soon as the current war is through, it will improve again and people will claim that current President as the reason. 2. Cool, keep doing the liberal thing and cite things you "remember reading" as a fact. 3. "I felt he was the lesser of 2 evils" It's becoming even more apparent that liberals seem to say the same things they hear others say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted March 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 No one died when Clinton lied QFTMFT He got some head we moved on. WE don't have men dieing for a fucking lie. Now Bush lied and took us to war for no fucking reason. We lost sight of the target. Osama, We went after fucking sadam because he tried to kills bushs daddy. Plain and fucking simple. Its so simple we can call it goof dick simple. I'm not saying ohh so many have died in this war. NO IM saying we should not tbe in this fucking war. it should not have started, And I thought MISSION ACCOMPLISHED was the end. Fuck no. THEY HAVE NO EXIT STRAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Oh god, here go the dems and "clinton got us out of debt crap." Anyone here old enough to know of Reaganomics? The 90's were good times for investors, but there was a correction. Now my personal investments have done +60% returns since 2003. BTW our debt is doing really well atm you guys need to stop listening to hollywood and their buddies over at CNN/fn. Not a good source of info. The tax cuts the bush admin put into effect early on in his first term are paying off really well now. I just don't get peoples thinking that cutting taxes is a bad thing. I prefer free markets. I understand some basic regulation, but taxation should be kept to a minimum and people no matter what their personal situation should not recieve hand outs of any kind after a reasonable period of time. I have family who abuse the system in order to live and they well way to well for not having jobs. Anyone who thinks Osama is the goal needs to read some more. The target has and always will be the oil and I"m okay with this. We need it there's currently no way around it and we wouldn't even care about those crazy religous jerks if it wasn't there. The very hobby that brings you to this BBS requires oil and some of you think its evil to go after it, (odd.) Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 QFTMFT He got some head we moved on. WE don't have men dieing for a fucking lie. I fucking hate it when dicks say our troops are dying for a lie. Go fuck yourself. Lie? no. Possibly a mistake but not a certain lie. Are the Iraq people not recieving some sort of freedom for this? Did we not defeat many potential terrorists that could find a way to our homeland or kill more of our soldiers there? Did we not set some sort of example for others? Did we not capture thousands and thousands of firearms that could fall in to the hands of baddies? Do you also realize our troops are getting paid? They aren't there risking all only to return home for jackshite. Lost site of the target? Are we not still in Afghaniston? We can't enter Pakistan. There are still thousands of patrols in search for Osama. If I remmeber correctly, before Saddam Hussein was captured, everyone and there mother was saying he would never be captured or killed. Shows what people know. A little will goes a long way.Try not to underscore the military anymore than you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conesmasher Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Now I'm drawing conclusions..but I have to ask questions, I'm not a left and right guy, I'm a right and wrong guy. When did this war become "Bush's war"? Congress did vote to liberate Iraq as well. I don't think that the entire operation can be blamed soley upon one man. Don't get me wrong, BUSH has done wrong and he has mis-led the American people in terms of what this war really means to us as a nation........I believe that he has not fully illustrated how important success in Iraq is. I don't have the resources or the know how to attempt to prove that our president should be impeached, but I feel that it's blatantly obvious that we have had some better communicators as president. I also think that it's possible that we as citizens HAVE NO CLUE about the full scope of this war. This is not Bush's war, in fact to me it's not even a war......we already won the war, we're just trying to get a hold on the peace. So many great things are going on over there, it's incredible........unfortunately the wonderful world of news doesn't allow us to take a full grasp of that. One death is less than acceptable, but we as Americans today haven't the slightsest of what true sacrifice is. World War II America: 405,399 Soviet: 10,000,000 German: 3,500,000 Japan: 1,500,000 British: 280,000 That's well over 15 million lives taken in battle. Where it comes down to politics is this........policticians need to take a stand and decide if they support the war or if they don't support the war.....not somewhere in-between. It's either a good idea or NOT. You can't have it both ways.....because then it could be a good idea if it succeeds, but then again if it doesn't you don't want to be caught on the backside of the political backlash, etc. If they truly disagreed with the situation that is still going on, WHY haven't they cut the funding? Cut and run.........or...........Fund and fight This isn't Bush's fight......this is Americans fight to protect freedom and plant a seed of democracy in an unstable part of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 1. How did Clinton help us get out of debt? His administration was a post war admin, of course the economy and debt was going to look better. As soon as the current war is through, it will improve again and people will claim that current President as the reason. 2. Cool, keep doing the liberal thing and cite things you "remember reading" as a fact. 3. "I felt he was the lesser of 2 evils" It's becoming even more apparent that liberals seem to say the same things they hear others say. /me stirs the pot some more north american free trade agreement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 /me stirs the pot some more north american free trade agreement Are you kidding me? That was an expansion of an earlier agreement in 1988. It was even Bush sr. who signed it. Clinton came in right at the end of it, but now it's his work you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowZ06 Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 I fucking hate it when dicks say our troops are dying for a lie. Go fuck yourself. Lie? no. Possibly a mistake but not a certain lie. Are the Iraq people not recieving some sort of freedom for this? Did we not defeat many potential terrorists that could find a way to our homeland or kill more of our soldiers there? . We "liberated" people not for the sake of humanity; but for our own personal gain. And by "our", I don't mean the American people. If that requires further explanation, you're hopeless. Did we defeat many potential terrorists? Sure, I guess. But by that logic, we should shut down all of the filling stations in the country because they're a fire hazard. Don't drive ever again. It's possible to get injured or killed. Don't eat... E coli might be lurking in your spinach. You get the point. I hate it when dicks say that our behavior is justified because we are operating under the guise of being the "good guys". (I'll spare everyone the George Bush double entendre jokes.) Following your Commander in chief blindly isn't patriotic, contrary to what some of you may believe. If you can stand in the face of a fallen soldier's family, and truly and honestly say that their loved one's life was given for a good cause..... then your grasp on the value of human life is seriously skewed. You believe strongly enough in your leader's convictions to go enlist with your local Armed Forces recruiter? I doubt it. Last but not least... a reminder. It is possible to support your troops but still think your President is a jackass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Are you kidding me? That was an expansion of an earlier agreement in 1988. It was even Bush sr. who signed it. Clinton came in right at the end of it, but now it's his work you say? You don't catch Sarcasm well. Reread my previous posts. I like to drag people along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 We "liberated" people not for the sake of humanity; but for our own personal gain. And by "our", I don't mean the American people. If that requires further explanation, you're hopeless. Did we defeat many potential terrorists? Sure, I guess. But by that logic, we should shut down all of the filling stations in the country because they're a fire hazard. Don't drive ever again. It's possible to get injured or killed. Don't eat... E coli might be lurking in your spinach. You get the point. I hate it when dicks say that our behavior is justified because we are operating under the guise of being the "good guys". (I'll spare everyone the George Bush double entendre jokes.) Following your Commander in chief blindly isn't patriotic, contrary to what some of you may believe. If you can stand in the face of a fallen soldier's family, and truly and honestly say that their loved one's life was given for a good cause..... then your grasp on the value of human life is seriously skewed. You believe strongly enough in your leader's convictions to go enlist with your local Armed Forces recruiter? I doubt it. Last but not least... a reminder. It is possible to support your troops but still think your President is a jackass. I'm pretty sure e coli and fire hazards aren't planning on flying planes into our buildings and killing people with an ak47, might just be me. I'm not following him blindly, I try to sift the good things out of conflicts instead of calling it quits with the white flag and saying "oh well, we tried" or "it's okay, I'm French." It's pretty fucked what you say about a human life. Do you not value others lives? Do you not want other countries to be safer and possibly help our own in the future? And don't give me bullshit about being in the military. I discussed with a recruiter my future a few years back and due to a heart murmer I was told it wouldn't be in my interest. If we were ever attacked at home again, I'd grab my gun and be willing to fight, even to protect people like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 You don't catch Sarcasm well. Reread my previous posts. I like to drag people along. Unless a smiley face is the new sarcasm symbol, you don't relay well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87GT Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 We "liberated" people not for the sake of humanity; but for our own personal gain. And by "our", I don't mean the American people. If that requires further explanation, you're hopeless. Did we defeat many potential terrorists? Sure, I guess. But by that logic, we should shut down all of the filling stations in the country because they're a fire hazard. Don't drive ever again. It's possible to get injured or killed. Don't eat... E coli might be lurking in your spinach. You get the point. I hate it when dicks say that our behavior is justified because we are operating under the guise of being the "good guys". (I'll spare everyone the George Bush double entendre jokes.) Following your Commander in chief blindly isn't patriotic, contrary to what some of you may believe. If you can stand in the face of a fallen soldier's family, and truly and honestly say that their loved one's life was given for a good cause..... then your grasp on the value of human life is seriously skewed. You believe strongly enough in your leader's convictions to go enlist with your local Armed Forces recruiter? I doubt it. Last but not least... a reminder. It is possible to support your troops but still think your President is a jackass. I'm pretty sure e coli and fire hazards aren't planning on flying planes into our buildings and killing people with an ak47, might just be me. I'm not following him blindly, I try to sift the good things out of conflicts instead of calling it quits with the white flag and saying "oh well, we tried" or "it's okay, I'm French." It's pretty fucked what you say about a human life. Do you not value others lives? Do you not want other countries to be safer and possibly help our own in the future? And don't give me bullshit about being in the military. I discussed with a recruiter my future a few years back and due to a heart murmer I was told it wouldn't be in my interest. If we were ever attacked at home again, I'd grab my gun and be willing to fight, even to protect people like you. Reading these posts made me feel warm and fuzzy in an evil way. Mikehaze thanks for wanting to fight for your country. We have something in common. I couldn't join the military because i also have a heart mummer. I also have mitral valve prolapse. And this is not me being sarcastic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Glad to see we can relate at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 I don't care how many have died. So far we haven't even came to the number who died in a single major engagment of any previous major war so I say its all worth it Easy for you to say. Feelin comfy in your chair far from harm? People have some balls calling for other people to sacrifice for what they want. "If the dems dont mess it up"? How the fuck could it be more messed up? The Repubs haven't succeeded either. Next person who compares this conflict to any other in the history of the world needs to shoot themselves in the face. WWII? Are you fucking kidding me? The ignorance here is painful, No wonder Mark doesn't come here and bale you guys out anymore. I can only pray that you guys make up the springer-fringe and don't sway the primaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Rex Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 1. Everyone thinks Bush has all these fall men. We are wrong, he is the fall man. Cheney, Rumsfield (previously), and Karl Rove run our country. (Rumsfeld just got himself caught in a bad spot) I give it another 8 years at most and Bush is blamed for just about every bad thing that has happened to this country. 2. Our Debt is doing fine because China is buying it, fact. So instead of Sushi its Chinese takeout! 3. The comments about "Clinton lied and noone died," were in refrence to his impeachment trial, no more no less. Bush and members of his cabniet LIED *cough* scooter *cough* to congress for an approval to invade iraq. Impeachment trial, what? If I am correct, when you are addressing congress you are technically "under oath." espcially when you are presenting information as vital as the survival of your own countrymen. P.S. Sorry Colin Powell, we are the fall man here. Thanks Cheney! 4. The Republican controlled congress before this last election hardly worked, FACT. It was the least productive congress in our nations history. 5. Where do Republicans get their news from if us liberals are so wrong? 6. Clinton WAS impeached, he was never removed from office, FACT. 7. There is nothing wrong with doing what you say you are going to do, there is something wrong with NOT admitting you were wrong and then taking the proper steps to correct the situation or you can be like our government and just keep doing what you have been doing and expect a diffrent result. 8. Who the FUCK are we, the US, to tell another country let alone a single person they are wrong?!?!?!?!?!?!? Smoking ban anyone?! Im done for now, pick apart what you want and I will be back to retort later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mushijobah Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Amen Rev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Tony gets a beer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Tony gets a beer AT 6:59 AM? CLICK HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 1. Everyone thinks Bush has all these fall men. We are wrong, he is the fall man. Cheney, Rumsfield (previously), and Karl Rove run our country. (Rumsfeld just got himself caught in a bad spot) I give it another 8 years at most and Bush is blamed for just about every bad thing that has happened to this country. 2. Our Debt is doing fine because China is buying it, fact. So instead of Sushi its Chinese takeout! 3. The comments about "Clinton lied and noone died," were in refrence to his impeachment trial, no more no less. Bush and members of his cabniet LIED *cough* scooter *cough* to congress for an approval to invade iraq. Impeachment trial, what? If I am correct, when you are addressing congress you are technically "under oath." espcially when you are presenting information as vital as the survival of your own countrymen. P.S. Sorry Colin Powell, we are the fall man here. Thanks Cheney! 4. The Republican controlled congress before this last election hardly worked, FACT. It was the least productive congress in our nations history. 5. Where do Republicans get their news from if us liberals are so wrong? 6. Clinton WAS impeached, he was never removed from office, FACT. 7. There is nothing wrong with doing what you say you are going to do, there is something wrong with NOT admitting you were wrong and then taking the proper steps to correct the situation or you can be like our government and just keep doing what you have been doing and expect a diffrent result. 8. Who the FUCK are we, the US, to tell another country let alone a single person they are wrong?!?!?!?!?!?!? Smoking ban anyone?! Im done for now, pick apart what you want and I will be back to retort later. 1.Cheney, Rumsfield, Rove don not run the country. Sounds like more Hollywood -Al Franken crap. 2. The national debt will come down. Anytime wars are fought they are fought with borrowed money.But maybe if we did not have so many government agencies, and liberal cry me a river hand out programs we would not have as much debt as we do. 3. Bad intelligence report do not constitute a lie. The information came from multiple countries and multiple administrations of our own government. Clinton was saying the same things about Saddam when he was in office. The only difference is the Bush had the "Nutz" to do something, where Clinton ran his presidency by the polls. 4 Congress hardly working is a good thing. If they are working that means they are passing laws for you and I to follow. Therefore larger government and more debt. 5. Fox News. 6.True 7.Bush has admitted that things have not gone as planed. When it comes to changing things, every liberal comes out from under the woodwork and starts to moan and grip about an escalation. I think the Libs want to play patty-cake with the terrorist. War is about beating the opponent into submission by the use of overwhelming force. We have the biggest baddest military in the history of the world. We need to use it to get the Job done! The rules of engagement are screwed up. From what I understand we are not allowed to enter any Mosque over there when it is obvious the insurgents are in the places of worship... Take the Gloves off! 8. Because we are the big kid on the block that has the biggest stick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Carl Rove does run this country, and it's really quite simple to see how. Bush is a politician; politicians live off of their image. Rove is responsible for this image and advises Bush on everything he does. He's been doing it since the slanderous gubernatorial races in Tejas. If you want to change things, the presidency is not the place to do it. Bush is a hood ornament, nothing more. 3. Bad intelligence report do not constitute a lie. Fabricated intel does. He was told by his own people that Iraq couldn't bitch slap us if they tried, he chose who to listen to: The ones whos opinions benifitted his agenda. 8. Because we are the big kid on the block that has the biggest stick! A dangerous assumption, very soon to be challenged. You also sound like a Nazi, again. Fox news? Fox fucking news? Do you read anything? This seriously explains everything regarding your views. Fox is entertainment, 100% entertainment and nothing more. "We have the biggest baddest military in the history of the world" and it is completely useless in a campaign of this kind. Every enemy you kill motivates two kids to take his place. Terrorists are criminals, not worthy of the title "Enemy" or "military combatant". They derseve far less respect. Our presence motivates them and strengthens their cause. To beat them, we have to win people, not kill terrorists. Dems want to win the war, Repubs just want to look like they're trying, whilst making a shit ton of money off of it. Look at all the money going into it, and consider that 50% or more is coming back into the country. This war was started to fatten the portfolios of a few rich supporters of "The Party". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got-Boost? Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Some of you guys really have no idea about what's going on in this world and its sad reading some of these posts.... Clinton's lies never killed anyone....? I guess since it wasn't all over CNN, Fox, etc... then it never happened. (Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia, Ethiopia, etc....the list goes on forever) Kerry had the same ideas about going in with Black Ops and not making it a publicized war all over the news. It may be effective and help make him look like the good guy but it's shady as hell.... The truth is there are people all over this planet that can't stand our way of life and will do anything to prevent the American way. Do we need to go after every single one of them before they can harm us, NO! But when you receive Intel with what's happening or about to happen somewhere in the world, you have seconds to make a decision on that information. Sometimes it's the wrong choice but most of the time it is the BETTER or CORRECT choice. What's really sad is that a lot of the cry babies on here and in this world are the same ones that would be pointing the finger if we DID NOT invade Iraq and something else had happened. It's really sad.... As far as I'm concerned either put on a uniform or get in a position to fix things or make them right. We can chat a lifetime on an internet message board and things will not change and battles will not be won to protect this freedom that we ALL have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Rex Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Some of you guys really have no idea about what's going on in this world and its sad reading some of these posts.... Clinton's lies never killed anyone....? Its sad that people can follow a president who obviously doesn't know his ass from his face. Please reread my previous post about "Clintion lied and no one died." Do a google search on Rumsfeld and Saddam Hussien. (He definaly didn't help anyone conjur that story up did he?) Rove is a scary scary man. He has WAY to much power for his own good. More than anything I wish I could call up my two cousins and my brother-in-law just to say hey, but I can't because they are still fighting a war. I do understand that if it was not for people like these we would not have the freedoms we do and I appreciate that more than you would believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Carl Rove does run this country, and it's really quite simple to see how. Bush is a politician; politicians live off of their image. Rove is responsible for this image and advises Bush on everything he does. He's been doing it since the slanderous gubernatorial races in Tejas. If you want to change things, the presidency is not the place to do it. Bush is a hood ornament, nothing more. Fabricated intel does. He was told by his own people that Iraq couldn't bitch slap us if they tried, he chose who to listen to: The ones whos opinions benifitted his agenda. A dangerous assumption, very soon to be challenged. You also sound like a Nazi, again. Fox news? Fox fucking news? Do you read anything? This seriously explains everything regarding your views. Fox is entertainment, 100% entertainment and nothing more. "We have the biggest baddest military in the history of the world" and it is completely useless in a campaign of this kind. Every enemy you kill motivates two kids to take his place. Terrorists are criminals, not worthy of the title "Enemy" or "military combatant". They derseve far less respect. Our presence motivates them and strengthens their cause. To beat them, we have to win people, not kill terrorists. Dems want to win the war, Repubs just want to look like they're trying, whilst making a shit ton of money off of it. Look at all the money going into it, and consider that 50% or more is coming back into the country. This war was started to fatten the portfolios of a few rich supporters of "The Party". Nazi... I think not. That is a typical Liberal response to someone with veiws other than yours. http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/germans/nazi_parade_23_03_05.jpg :bs: So who will soon challenge us? Russians? Chinese? North Korea? "Fox news is entertainment" What do you call CNN, MSNBC CBS, ABC? I call it fiction and fantasy! Let me get you a bandaid for that bleeding heart... http://www.pudgygreeting.com/graphics/alloccassion/bandaid.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Nazi... I think not. That is a typical Liberal response to someone with veiws other than yours. I love how you know me so well. Look at the stereotype you're putting on me, just because I disagree with you on a few points. Dr. John, still reading? Explain to them the Halo Effect, you're better at it. Or you guys could look it up. However, it's not on Fox, so it's probably not real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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