Obama is PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!

[Casper]

Your ignorance astounds me.

It was a joke. Comedy is the cure for all ailments.

Seriously though, I hope the guy does a great job and doesn't get assassinated.

I agree that the only reason the democrats won so much last night was because of the nation being fed up with republicans. Republicans in office today aren't even real republicans. Ron Paul is a REAL republican. My biggest problem is I don't trust any politician. They're all dirty. Scares the crap out of me. Honestly, I hope the democrats fuck it up just as bad and people start to look at independents and Libertarians.

[schmuckingham]

Let me expand on that...

This govt tends to work for some, more than others.

We need to take it back.

national sales tax, you get taxed on what you spend. If your a millionaire that owns lambos and nine homes you get taxed like one, if your a millionair that lives in a box and hords your money you get taxed little. I think it will fix our spending a lending problems.

We then turn the IRS around and make them watch the government on their spending and making sure its in the correct interests.

[Casper]

Your ignorance astounds me.

And also, you must have missed my avatar that's been up for over a week.

[SchmuckGirl]

national sales tax, you get taxed on what you spend. If your a millionaire that owns lambos and nine homes you get taxed like one, if your a millionair that lives in a box and hords your money you get taxed little. I think it will fix our spending a lending problems.

We then turn the IRS around and make them watch the government on their spending and making sure its in the correct interests.

I do love this idea.

[InyaAzz]

It was a joke. Comedy is the cure for all ailments.

Seriously though, I hope the guy does a great job and doesn't get assassinated.

I agree that the only reason the democrats won so much last night was because of the nation being fed up with republicans. Republicans in office today aren't even real republicans. Ron Paul is a REAL republican. My biggest problem is I don't trust any politician. They're all dirty. Scares the crap out of me. Honestly, I hope the democrats fuck it up just as bad and people start to look at independents and Libertarians.

I liked Ron Paul's ideas...the problem was, he would never pull 95% of it off. Too many 'checks and balances' and roadblocks in the way.

I actually agreed with most of what he said.

[Putty]

I agree that the only reason the democrats won so much last night was because of the nation being fed up with republicans.

I agree with that, too. People have been getting tired of working longer/harder, losing time with families with nothing really to show for it. Still struggling as much as they were before with no real light at the end. Working hard for 3% raises each year when cost of living increases 5-7%. People who are affording their homes watching the value decrease daily due to foreclosures all around them. Everyone is fed up. McCain had some good views, but a guy with 7 or so homes and isn't or had to struggle can't really relate to people that are. I think that is what America saw with Obama. He wants to fight for the people that are taking it in the ass right now, no lube, no homo. The sad reality is the country is so fucked up right now that 4 years isn't enough to correct it. I just hope he is able to make something happen that helps us and not have people say "he was in office for 4 years and did nothing". Time will tell and as he said it won't be quick.

[InyaAzz]

And also, you must have missed my avatar that's been up for over a week.

I didn't miss it..it just didn't mean much to me.

[InyaAzz]

You know what sucks? We can't ride our bikes and we sit on here and pay way more attention to politicians than they deserve.

[Casper]

national sales tax, you get taxed on what you spend. If your a millionaire that owns lambos and nine homes you get taxed like one, if your a millionair that lives in a box and hords your money you get taxed little. I think it will fix our spending a lending problems.

We then turn the IRS around and make them watch the government on their spending and making sure its in the correct interests.

Abolish the IRS. The federal income tax is unconstitutional. True story.

The federal income tax was only supposed to be temporary. It was imposed during the Civil War to help pay for the war. After the war, the tax was abolished. It was imposed again in the late 1800s, but a year later ruled unconstitutional. So in 1913 (I think), congress ratified the 16th amendment allowing them to impose peacetime income taxes. It's bullshit, and one of the many things our founding fathers were against that we now deal with here.

[Disclaimer]

Obama can't be the devil. Muslims don't believe in the devil. He'd be Iblis.

I had to look up Iblis. Learn something new everyday. Thanks for the lesson Christian Iblis avatar man.

[Disclaimer]

I think a National Sales tax may be a viable solution, those that consume more get taxed on that. But I haven't really done any thorough research on this topic to figure out what the pitfalls would be.

[Casper]

I agree with that, too. People have been getting tired of working longer/harder, losing time with families with nothing really to show for it. Still struggling as much as they were before with no real light at the end. Working hard for 3% raises each year when cost of living increases 5-7%. People who are affording their homes watching the value decrease daily due to foreclosures all around them. Everyone is fed up. McCain had some good views, but a guy with 7 or so homes and isn't or had to struggle can't really relate to people that are. I think that is what America saw with Obama. He wants to fight for the people that are taking it in the ass right now, no lube, no homo. The sad reality is the country is so fucked up right now that 4 years isn't enough to correct it. I just hope he is able to make something happen that helps us and not have people say "he was in office for 4 years and did nothing". Time will tell and as he said it won't be quick.

It's taken us 16 yrs to get here (yes Clinton fans, your boy helped cause most of the financial market melt downs. The war put us in immense debt, but the "American dream for every American" plan tanked the housing/credit markets). It'll take quite a while to recover from this mess we're in. But I have faith in our country.

The biggest single problem I see isn't the leadership, but the citizens themselves. Too many people expect the government to be there for them. Welfare, social security, medicare/medicaid, unemployment, etc. These are all things nobody should depend upon, yet a good portion of our country does. Maybe people have been led to believe this is how it's supposed to be by the previous leaders. I don't know. But to think our country owes you anything is absurd. Well all owe our country everything we can do to make it a better place for everyone now and tomorrow. Freebies and handouts are NOT what will make America better.

[fusion]

Abolish the IRS. The federal income tax is unconstitutional. True story.

The federal income tax was only supposed to be temporary. It was imposed during the Civil War to help pay for the war. After the war, the tax was abolished. It was imposed again in the late 1800s, but a year later ruled unconstitutional. So in 1913 (I think), congress ratified the 16th amendment allowing them to impose peacetime income taxes. It's bullshit, and one of the many things our founding fathers were against that we now deal with here.

Article I sec. 8 of the Constitution provides for Congress to impose taxes "...to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare...".

General welfare can be interpreted pretty broadly.

[Casper]

I liked Ron Paul's ideas...the problem was, he would never pull 95% of it off. Too many 'checks and balances' and roadblocks in the way.

I actually agreed with most of what he said.

And you are now an Obama supporter??? Did you fall on your head and suddenly swing from one train of thought to another? How do you go from minimal government spending/intervention to Obama's socialistic views???? Do you realize Obama wants $1 TRILLION in NEW government spending?

[robhawk]

It's taken us 16 yrs to get here (yes Clinton fans, your boy helped cause most of the financial market melt downs. The war put us in immense debt, but the "American dream for every American" plan tanked the housing/credit markets). It'll take quite a while to recover from this mess we're in. But I have faith in our country.

The biggest single problem I see isn't the leadership, but the citizens themselves. Too many people expect the government to be there for them. Welfare, social security, medicare/medicaid, unemployment, etc. These are all things nobody should depend upon, yet a good portion of our country does. Maybe people have been led to believe this is how it's supposed to be by the previous leaders. I don't know. But to think our country owes you anything is absurd. Well all owe our country everything we can do to make it a better place for everyone now and tomorrow. Freebies and handouts are NOT what will make America better.

I think JFK said something about not having your country do stuffs for you and doing stuffs for your country or sometin like dat?

[Casper]

Article I sec. 8 of the Constitution provides for Congress to impose taxes "...to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare...".

General welfare can be interpreted pretty broadly.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

Duties: tax on imported goods

Imposts: tax on imported and exported goods

Excises: tax on production/sale/consumption of commodities, like liqueur, tobacco, phone calls, etc....

No income tax was covered in this. Hence the 16th amendment.

[fusion]

Duties: tax on imported goods

Imposts: tax on imported and exported goods

Excises: tax on production/sale/consumption of commodities, like liqueur, tobacco, phone calls, etc....

No income tax was covered in this. Hence the 16th amendment.

Not quite. The 16th Amendment addresses the apportionment of taxes by population. The only change in this Amendment allows for is for congress to apply taxes without regard to the census.

[g35tonv]

pretty big victory

[Casper]

Not quite. The 16th Amendment addresses the apportionment of taxes by population. The only change in this Amendment allows for is for congress to apply taxes without regard to the census.

Not quite:

16th Amendment: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

This is the first mention anywhere about congress being able to take income.

[Casper]

And to top it off, there are several arguments on whether the 16th amendment was properly ratified or not.

Here's some good reading if you're bored:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_Sixteenth_Amendment_arguments

[fusion]

Not quite:

This is the first mention anywhere about congress being able to take income.

We need a two smileys sparring icon...

Not quite (again):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#The_Penn_Mutual_case

Although the Sixteenth Amendment is often cited as the "source" of the Congressional power to tax incomes, at least one court has reiterated the point made in Brushaber and other cases that the Sixteenth Amendment itself did not grant the Congress the power to tax incomes (a power the Congress has had since 1789), but only removed the requirement, if any, that any income tax be apportioned among the states according to their respective populations. In the Penn Mutual Indemnity case, the United States Tax Court stated:

In dealing with the scope of the taxing power the question has sometimes been framed in terms of whether something can be taxed as income under the Sixteenth Amendment. This is an inaccurate formulation [ . . . ] and has led to much loose thinking on the subject. The source of the taxing power is not the Sixteenth Amendment; it is Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution.[29]

and from the summary of your own link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_Sixteenth_Amendment_arguments#Summary

In Abrams v. Commissioner, the United States Tax Court stated: "Since the ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment, it is immaterial with respect to income taxes, whether the tax is a direct or indirect tax. The whole purpose of the Sixteenth Amendment was to relieve all income taxes when imposed from [the requirement of] apportionment and from [the requirement of] a consideration of the source whence the income was derived."[49]

[fusion]

And to top it off, there are several arguments on whether the 16th amendment was properly ratified or not.

Here's some good reading if you're bored:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_Sixteenth_Amendment_arguments

I guess some seem to want to keep hope alive. From the same page...

Summary

Tax lawyer Alan O. Dixler has written:

Each year some misguided souls refuse to pay their federal income tax liability on the theory that the 16th Amendment was never properly ratified, or on the theory that the 16th Amendment lacks an enabling clause. Not surprisingly, neither the IRS nor the courts have exhibited much patience for that sort of thing. If, strictly for the purposes of this discussion, the 16th Amendment could be disregarded, the taxpayers making those frivolous claims would still be subject to the income tax. In the first place, income from personal services is taxable without apportionment in the absence of the 16th Amendment. Pollock specifically endorsed Springer's holding that such income could be taxed without apportionment. The second Pollock decision invalidated the entire 1894 income tax act, including its tax on personal services income, due to inseverability; but, unlike the 1894 act, the current code contains a severability provision. Also, given the teaching of Graves [i.e., Graves v. New York ex rel. O'Keefe, 306 U.S. 466 (1939)] -- that the theory that taxing income from a particular source is, in effect, taxing the source itself is untenable -- the holding in Pollock that taxing income from property is the same thing as taxing the property as such cannot be viewed as good law.[48]

[Fonzie]

We need a two smileys sparring icon...

Here 'ya go......Always a helper, I am

Or if you're a Stars Wars fan......

[Fonzie]

You people kill me..you act like Obama is the anti christ. We had to put up with George Bush for 8 years and Obama hasn't even taken office yet, but he's the devil himself according to the McCain supporters. Unreal. You are the same people who voted for Bush..and now your judgement is supposed to be respected?

You had your turn..8 years of driving this country into the ground...losing our standing across the world stage..gaining more enemies every single day..a deficit that is so high, I don't think there's a number to represent it anymore. And you think Obama is going to do much worse, when he hasn't even been sworn in yet?

Get real people. Give the man a chance. If he fucks it up, you are entitled to say so and throw it in my face. But, lets be honest, no matter how well he does, you'll never give him any props. You all have made this thing personal, for whataver reasons. We're ALL American. Last time I checked anyways. You're the same people who say "Support George Bush, he's out president...support the war..regardless, because he's our commander and it's the right thing to do", but yet, you are already throwing Obama under the bus. I guess he's not worthy of your support...I guess 'Support your President' only matters when the President is someone you like.

Fucking hypocrites.

I didn't vote for Bush. Find me anywhere on this board

Obama can't be the devil. Muslims don't believe in the devil. He'd be Iblis.

He isn't our president yet, so no we don't have to support him yet.

Your ignorance astounds me.

Since I was one of the main opponents of Obama, I'll take that as aimed towards me, in part at least.

Like Ben, I DID NOT vote for Bush, and it took me quite a long time to accept him as my President. I don't think I truly did until I saw him at Ground Zero right after 9-11, and his sincerity at that moment broke through my doubt of him.

That said....It may be some time before I accept BO

[Disclaimer]