BDHG940 Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I have a 90 240 swapped with a rb25 that is stock right now. I am going to do a turbo upgrade, standalone, etc and was throwing around the idea of e85. Any shops around here tune on e85 and setup any cars like this? it was just an idea I was throwing around and trying to find out if anyone else has tried something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I have a 90 240 swapped with a rb25 that is stock right now. I am going to do a turbo upgrade, standalone, etc and was throwing around the idea of e85. Any shops around here tune on e85 and setup any cars like this? it was just an idea I was throwing around and trying to find out if anyone else has tried something like this. I think Brandon/Eric & IPS have worked with it. Stand alone would be ideal as it requires operating values outside of the norm chip/piggy back operating range. As you probably know, your fuel efficiency will suffer do to the lower compression design of a traditional gas forced induction engine, but the power and trq output will be substantial (What turbo car doesn't love an alcohol based 100 octane fuel?) If you haven't already, consider the materials and components in the fuel system: Rubber seals/oring need to be switched to viton, any carbon steel/mild steel lines need to be changed to at least 304 stainless, injectors need to be sized larger (around 30%-40%), with the disc design being preferred, a flame arrestor needs to be added to the fill/vent line, and finally, the regulator/fuel filter need to be swapped with e85 compatible equipment. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDHG940 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Im going to run an aem ems so the tune should be able to be done. It already has a 255 pump installed so I think the pump should be fine. I havent bought injectors but Ill verify with the brand I go with that I can run e85 with them. Im really not worried about gas mileage, its not a daily but I will drive it quite a bit. My dads shop bends and manufactures brake and fuel lines so thats not an issue if I do need to replace. The tank is steel so I dont see any problems with needing to do anything with changing the tank. Whats up with adding a flame arrestor to the fill, have no idea how that would need to be done or where to get supplies to do that. Maybe Ill call over to ips and see what they can do to help me out. Im really interested in doing this and think it has some pretty cool advantages with a forced induction setup. Im learning so I dont know much but really want to try and make this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GMoney Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Chad E-85 is easy, i would be running it in the EVO but its really not avail enough yet to DD with it. Its very simple though, 27% more fuel across the board, more timing, and more boost. Do not worry about the injectors, rubber, or fuel lines they are all cool. Depending on how much power you are gonna run is your choice on how many fuel pumps to run, my evo would require 2 255lph pumps, call me if you want to talk further on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Im going to run an aem ems so the tune should be able to be done. It already has a 255 pump installed so I think the pump should be fine. I havent bought injectors but Ill verify with the brand I go with that I can run e85 with them. Im really not worried about gas mileage, its not a daily but I will drive it quite a bit. My dads shop bends and manufactures brake and fuel lines so thats not an issue if I do need to replace. The tank is steel so I dont see any problems with needing to do anything with changing the tank. Whats up with adding a flame arrestor to the fill, have no idea how that would need to be done or where to get supplies to do that. Maybe Ill call over to ips and see what they can do to help me out. Im really interested in doing this and think it has some pretty cool advantages with a forced induction setup. Im learning so I dont know much but really want to try and make this happen. The large problem with E85 is unlike gas, it has a moderate level of electrical conductivity. Parts should be 100% electrically shielded (no open contact/harnesses like on most in tank wiring setups). I have heard Walbro buying their failed e85 pumps back, but not sure if they have an E85 specific pump/rebuild kit out. The largest problem when it comes to pumps are the seals. The alcohol (sugar) in E85 tends to make seals expand, in a pump, that means it won't be pumping much as clearances get out of whack. Delphi has had a problem with this in the GM Flex Fuel platforms, but Ford seems to have gotten it correct as there doesn't seem to be many issues with their components. (Ford mechanics please feel free to interject) Here's something that might help with the flame arrestor design: http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/34301.pdf If you can find a flex fuel platform in the junkyard, you might be able to adapt their arrestor & other components. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GMoney Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 The large problem with E85 is unlike gas, it has a moderate level of electrical conductivity. Parts should be 100% electrically shielded (no open contact/harnesses like on most in tank wiring setups). I have heard Walbro buying their failed e85 pumps back, but not sure if they have an E85 specific pump/rebuild kit out. The largest problem when it comes to pumps are the seals. The alcohol (sugar) in E85 tends to make seals expand, in a pump, that means it won't be pumping much as clearances get out of whack. Delphi has had a problem with this in the GM Flex Fuel platforms, but Ford seems to have gotten it correct as there doesn't seem to be many issues with their components. (Ford mechanics please feel free to interject) Here's something that might help with the flame arrestor design: http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/34301.pdf If you can find a flex fuel platform in the junkyard, you might be able to adapt their arrestor & other components. Nate There are tons of shops selling twin 255lph pump set up for cars with zero problems with the walbro pumps, or the electrical connections. Now these are all new pumps so i can speak for walbro made years ago. There have been shops testing the E-85 buy running walbros in a tanks of E-85 for a year with no issues. They also left injectors set in the fuel for a year also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolrayz Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I run 30% E85. Only different in the tuning is what was stated above. More timing and fuel. I had the VE table squared away on gasoline and a very smooth a/F so I just changed the scaling on the fuel injectors. By making it think the injectors were smaller than they actually are it ads fuel across the board, open and closed loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDHG940 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I run 30% E85. Only different in the tuning is what was stated above. More timing and fuel. I had the VE table squared away on gasoline and a very smooth a/F so I just changed the scaling on the fuel injectors. By making it think the injectors were smaller than they actually are it ads fuel across the board, open and closed loop. Might be dumb but why 30% and not straight e85? They have the station on Polaris and I really wouldnt be driving this far away where I would get stuck not being able to find a station. I just like the fact that it can make the car more safe with a aggressive tune compared to just 93. To most people, is this a waste of time to try and go through the hassle to make the car run e85 and not just 93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 There are tons of shops selling twin 255lph pump set up for cars with zero problems with the walbro pumps, or the electrical connections. Now these are all new pumps so i can speak for walbro made years ago. There have been shops testing the E-85 buy running walbros in a tanks of E-85 for a year with no issues. They also left injectors set in the fuel for a year also. Do you have any information pertaining to Walbro certifying their pumps with alcohol based fuels? The same situation is happening with Bosch's 044 Pumps - they won't warranty/guarantee anything when alcohol based fuels are used - but people still use them. Some with problem, some without. Regarding the electrical/arrestor equipment, that's simply a component of safety. It's a risk, it needs to be managed. God forbid, until there's that 1/1000000 chance things go south, it won't be part of main stream conversion factors. The corrosion rate of eth on most metal is in Mils/year, so penetration wear is somewhat minimal, but introduce dissimilar metals and you may have some funky shit going on within a few years time frame. My responses are considering 5+ years in service. Temperature has a very large impact on the penetration/corison levels, as well as deposits formed from cycling an injector in everyday driving conditions. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I run 30% E85. Only different in the tuning is what was stated above. More timing and fuel. I had the VE table squared away on gasoline and a very smooth a/F so I just changed the scaling on the fuel injectors. By making it think the injectors were smaller than they actually are it ads fuel across the board, open and closed loop. Ray, did you change the global injector size? Keep in mind that affects engine load calculation if the displacement variable isn't scaled along with it. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDHG940 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I know Hellion is making some conversions for the 03/04 cobras, daily driving on e85 going 1000hp wheel. When I was out at SEMA I talked awhile with the dude about this and thats what even made me want to do this. They just really didnt tell any details of the products used, just told me its a conversion they are working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolrayz Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Nate, I scaled them back globaly it seems to work perfectly. I started running 10% then 25% now I run 33% I would run 100% but I need to either get a bigger fuel system or run less nitrous or run a wet/dry nitrous system instead of all dry. The other advantage of mixing is I can throw a small gas can (which is mixed at any gas station with premion gas) in the car with e-85 and go out all night and not have to worry about finding e-85 wherever. I will say this, the combustion chambers and intake ports are cleaner then I have ever seen them. There is definately something to it burning cleaner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDHG940 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Nate, I scaled them back globaly it seems to work perfectly. I started running 10% then 25% now I run 33% I would run 100% but I need to either get a bigger fuel system or run less nitrous or run a wet/dry nitrous system instead of all dry. The other advantage of mixing is I can throw a small gas can (which is mixed at any gas station with premion gas) in the car with e-85 and go out all night and not have to worry about finding e-85 wherever. I will say this, the combustion chambers and intake ports are cleaner then I have ever seen them. There is definately something to it burning cleaner Curious what you did for a flame arrestor on your filler neck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 fyi most kroger gas stations sell e-85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolrayz Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Curious what you did for a flame arrestor on your filler neck? Nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rally Pat Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 This is just out of curiosity, would I have to make major changed to my fuel system, including the ECU, to use E85 as an additive every once in a while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.