Science Abuse Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Your right, rolling over isn't really a concern and this does not happen often, but just for the sake of argument because this is columbusracing after all. This was at nationals in 2000, this car was in one of the "stock" classes...soft suspension. http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z39/crossle_sean/saturn.jpg To add to that: http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f228/bandit027/auto-x/IMG_3003.jpg And there's the Mini Cooper incident that DID NOT HAPPEN, NOTHING TO SEE HERE, DO NOT SPEAK OF IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 is that the crash area? the 3 cars right there are all wrecked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 is that the crash area? the 3 cars right there are all wrecked. The Porsche went off and hit them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Apex Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Yup, a Mini Cooper flipped in Toledo this past summer and I've seen video of a bmw on 2 wheels up quite high as well and I've heard about a car locally flipping over years ago, it does happen though it's very rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Yup, a Mini Cooper flipped in Toledo this past summer and I've seen video of a bmw on 2 wheels up quite high as well and I've heard about a car locally flipping over years ago, it does happen though it's very rare. R-compounds, stock suspension, and quick changes in direction don't mix. I too have seen the vid of Alex Schipkov's (sp?) BMW pretty high on 2 wheels. He's lucky he didn't go over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 R-compounds, stock suspension, and quick changes in direction don't mix. I too have seen the vid of Alex Schipkov's (sp?) BMW pretty high on 2 wheels. He's lucky he didn't go over. what's amazing is that in order for the car to roll, you're talking about 100% weight transfer, and at enough momentum to overcome gravity's pull on the CG to move it past the outside wheels. That's just a scary equasion. edit to add: I've always thought that most AutoX roll cages were performance mods in the guise of a safety device. But apparently they're a good idea if you're in an r-comp tire class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 what's amazing is that in order for the car to roll, you're talking about 100% weight transfer, and at enough momentum to overcome gravity's pull on the CG to move it past the outside wheels. That's just a scary equasion. edit to add: I've always thought that most AutoX roll cages were performance mods in the guise of a safety device. But apparently they're a good idea if you're in an r-comp tire class. You'd be surprised how easy it is to roll a vehicle. I've been running NHTSA fishhook maneuvers for a while now and some vehicles go really easy, others would need help (this is on street tires). I've seen some vehicles that will lift both inside wheels off the ground in a lane change maneuver (on street tires). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 You'd be surprised how easy it is to roll a vehicle. I've been running NHTSA fishhook maneuvers for a while now and some vehicles go really easy, others would need help (this is on street tires). I've seen some vehicles that will lift both inside wheels off the ground in a lane change maneuver (on street tires). Question for you then. When the vehicles rolled, how much deflection into the cabin from the roof line did you see? Do you know where I can find any type of roll over tests to read? I've looked and come up short on what I was looking for. You hear a lot of different opinions out there as to what actually happens during a rollover, but not much evidence to back it up. For instance I've heard that the A-pillar area on a car is the weakest link during a rollover and most likely to give, which would mean that a back-half cage is somewhat a moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I really wanna hit road courses. It more of a personal safety thing. Remeber JP Walked away from a major wreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I really wanna hit road courses. It more of a personal safety thing. Remeber JP Walked away from a major wreck. there's no doubting that a cage is excellent for safety on the track, but it's very much a risk vs reward decision if the car will ever be driven on the street. I also don't think that you should believe that the top of your car will completely crush-in during the event of a rollover. The b-pillar that your head is by in the subi is quite strong. I suppose you need to take a very serious look at how much you'll drive the car on the street. Perhaps a back-half cage that would allow you to properly run harnesses that could eventually be turned into a full cage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Question for you then. When the vehicles rolled, how much deflection into the cabin from the roof line did you see? Do you know where I can find any type of roll over tests to read? I've looked and come up short on what I was looking for. You hear a lot of different opinions out there as to what actually happens during a rollover, but not much evidence to back it up. For instance I've heard that the A-pillar area on a car is the weakest link during a rollover and most likely to give, which would mean that a back-half cage is somewhat a moot point. I test with outriggers! One of the few pics I found in a 5 min search on Google to explain outriggers: http://images.usatoday.com/money/_photos/2004/02/05/rollover.jpg I have seen several vehicles that actually rolled over though, and it's not pretty (in some cases). But the results will vary from vehicle to vehicle. The NHTSA roll over testing is a very extreme maneuver, and you will probably see no results of that posted. It's a simple pass or fail. Two wheel lift is a fail, and you can't sell a vehicle that fails. They also rate rollover risk, but that's a simple mathmatical calcultation based on CG height, not actual testing, AFAIK. Let's just say there's a good reason certain vehicles come with anti-rollover systems, and there's a very good reason most don't have a full off switch. I think R-componds should be outlawed in stock autox classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I'm wearing a helmet right now. You'd be amazed at the g-forces I generate just by typing on the internets with all of my serious business! Okay, just kidding, I'm not really wearing a helmet right now. But, Thorne, I think you totally should wear a helmet. In fact, don't even take it off when you get to the meet and get out of your car. Just walk around and talk to people with it still on. People will probably say things like, "Hey, you still have your helmet on." In response, say, "I know, safety comes first," and then bow low as though you are a samurai. Do this as many times as necessary. I thought I was the only one that wore a helmet due to the serious business the interwebz generates! http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/xxtheonlyxx/CRsamurai.jpg Its good to see that other people take the internet seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODoyle Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I asked a Minerva Park police officer, and he said he doesnt know of any law about wearing a helmet while driving, He also mentioned that he would prolly pull the driver over becasue he would think there on drugs..so im not really sure how reliable his info was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Apex Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I think R-componds should be outlawed in stock autox classes. That's something that's been argued over for forever in the SCCA. The reason they allow them is to drastically lower the tire choices for competitive purposes because with street tires there are tons of tires and they change every year. With R comps there are currently only 2 competitive choices and the tires both seem to be near equally fast(I'm sure Rich G. could go into even more details about all this, or correct me if I'm wrong). Even with these tires though rollovers are still very rare. Thorne, I would start with a 4-point rollbar that is designed so that it can be added onto later if need be, this way you can at least run harnesses properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I thought I was the only one that wore a helmet due to the serious business the interwebz generates! http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/xxtheonlyxx/CRsamurai.jpg Its good to see that other people take the internet seriously. ROFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 So cages are illegal on roadways? Thats news to me. We put full cages in our 4x4's all the time and I don't think anyones even considered the possibility that it could be illegal. Well actually nearly every aspect of our trail rigs are illegal on roadways the least of which would be a roll cage, but I would like someone to point to me the section of the ORC that states cages are illegal. I'll share it with my club. Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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