tristanlee85 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 I'm getting closer to finishing this car and I'm getting really excited to be able to probably not be able to drive it. Here's what I've got so far. Engine: JE pistons Crower rods 1999 block and crank 1997 ported and polished DOHC head FSR Motorsports turbo cams Drivetrain: MP3 transmission with MP2 5th ACT 6-puck clutch kit Welded differential Turbo FSR Motorsports turbo header T04e turbo 3" downpipe and side-exit exhaust Tial 38mm wastegate Turbo XS RFL blow-off valve FSR Motorsports intake manifold GM 3800 throttle body FSR Motorsports radiator/intercooler combo Engine Management" MegaSquirt 2 w/ Ford EDIS ignition control 86lb/hr injectors IAC valve via MS Boost control via MS http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/head_port6_s.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/engine_top_s.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/edis_setup_s.jpg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/engine_rebuild/03-30-08/00002.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/engine_rebuild/03-30-08/00006.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/engine_rebuild/03-30-08/00007.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/engine_trans1.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/engine_trans2.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/engine_trans3.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/engine_trans4.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/engine_trans5.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/engine_in_1.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/turbo_parts/00001.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/turbo_parts/00003.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/turbo_parts/00006.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/turbo_parts/00007.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/turbo_parts/00009.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/turbo_parts/00011.jpg http://www.plastikhosting.net/uploads/tristanlee85/turbo/v2/turbo_parts/00013.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spankis Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I dig projects like these. Cool build, keep up with the updates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 very cool. i'd say that's an upgraded turbo alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSXRAntwon Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Very nice setup u have there! Top-mount FTMFW!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosted98gst Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 wow I love your build, thats going to surprize alot of guys not knowing! btw did you ever figure out what you were going to do on the flywheel issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 I'm just staying with the stock flywheel. The Fidanza would have been nice on a stock clutch, but with the Fidanza with a ACT street disc, most people have to rev to 2k when engaging the clutch. The extra mass will benefit me more than it will hurt me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Looking good Tristan -- Take advantage of the injection % delay on the MSII code -- it should be a great help to those with big injectors with a low idle/small cube package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rally Pat Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Damn Tristan, nice job. You definitely have one of the best sleepers in Central Ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Looking good Tristan -- Take advantage of the injection % delay on the MSII code -- it should be a great help to those with big injectors with a low idle/small cube package. For right now I'm starting off with my 42lb/hr injectors with the MS1 MSnS E code so I can use the fuel and spark map that I had on the last engine. Granted this engine will breathe much better with the cams, I'm going to be pretty lean to start off which is good. The last thing I need is washing the rings while trying to start the car for the first time. I can't wait to switch over to the MS2 and use the Ford EDIS and all the other sweet features. The stock OBD1 ignition module craps out around 6500 rpms. It's like hitting a brick wall when it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 looks good, my only criticism/advice would be on plenum size/shape of the intake manifold. It appears to be too small, you will lose power, and more importantly the #1 cyl is going to get a lot more air than the #4 cylinder due to that design, which means one cylinder will be lean, and the other rich, which means differing EGTs which means tuning problems, efficiency loss, etc... the second thing is the welds on the downpipe, I can appreciate a guy trying to learn and do it himself, but you may want to check the DP for porosity and weld depth just to make sure you are not going to have problems w/ cracked welds and/or exhaust leaks. (then again, I am also only basing this off of a couple of pictures and not actually seeing it) Great build, nothing like learning by doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 I questioned the intake as well, but realizing how much better it is over stock and that the welder has a similar setup on his car and makes 450+hp, I'm pretty confident I won't have problems with it. Plus, it was flow-matched (not by me) and all runners were within a couple percents of each other. I actually didn't weld the downpipe. It was tigged by AlphaTuning and while it doesn't compare as well to the quality on his site, it believe it will be fine judging by success of his other products. I pressure tested the downpipe and header for leaks. The header had a crack where the flange merged with the collector, but I welded that up. We shall see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmuckingham Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 They most def. gave the wastgate priority on flow................jeebus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 looks good, my only criticism/advice would be on plenum size/shape of the intake manifold. It appears to be too small, you will lose power, and more importantly the #1 cyl is going to get a lot more air than the #4 cylinder due to that design, which means one cylinder will be lean, and the other rich, which means differing EGTs which means tuning problems, efficiency loss, etc... I don't think the power is going to be an issue once in boost. From my experience modeling with ricardo and fluidworks, having above ambient pressure behind the intake valve really makes any sort of wave length tuning trival, not to say it won't benefit, but the gains would be small. I don't know the size of the piping but from the horsepower level you've estimated -- you most likely won't hit choke flow. The shape could be better, but its not uncommon for production vehichles to have a varience of about 15% lambda from cylinder to cylinder during cruise (one cylinder 14.7:1, other maye at 17:1), most designs will stabalize to about 4-5%, more so of 2-3% for performance applications. Again, turbos make intake design somewhat simple: -Air likes to go straight -Don't make sudden small to large changes (anything over 10* angle will disrupt flow to a point where you want to avoid it) -Large radius EVERYTHING Not to say following design principles won't hurt, but with turbocharging/supercharging -- you can over simplify intake manifold design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Also -- keep in mind using a batch/bank system evaporation rate is going to vary from cylinder to cylinder even with a perfect intake design. With the MSII delay % option, you can have more control over when (what crank angle) the injectors fire, which gives you a better chance at injecting on a closed valve....which is a very very VERY good thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmuckingham Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 The intake will work, i would have gone with a larger plenum size but fitament and clearance may have been an issue. Would have been better with a flat floor for the plenum with velocity stacks machined into them but this one was probably cheap and easy. Cant wait to see dyno numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 They most def. gave the wastgate priority on flow................jeebus The idea behind that was so that the header would flow like a N/A header, leaving all the runners equal so the wastegate wasn't bleeding off one runner. It isn't equal length, but at least the exhaust flow through the wastegate is coming from the collection of the runners and not just one. I'm curious as to how it would help/hurt if the wastegate and turbo switch places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 The intake will work, i would have gone with a larger plenum size but fitament and clearance may have been an issue. Would have been better with a flat floor for the plenum with velocity stacks machined into them but this one was probably cheap and easy. Cant wait to see dyno numbers. As soon as the manifold is above ambient pressure (1psig) -- all of the imperfection is quickly canceled out since you're mass flow rate is going to be similar if not greater to a race spec NA manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undr_psi Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 looks good man...makes me sad i got rid of mine..oh well..if you need a hand with anything youve got my number...damn i miss my plastic racecar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 I agree to a point, BUT, larger plenum volume equates to increased volumetric efficiency throughout the engine range (I agree that it is to a small point though). I however cannot agree to the flow rate per cylinder, I have test VERY similar setups with both Ricardo, and more indepth analysis with Virtual 4 Stroke, and correlated that with real world data on an eddy current engine dynometer, all of this was part of my Thesis, which was on intake manifold design and theory. I demonstrated unequivocally that in log style plenums, the smaller the volume got, the larger the affect on cylinder temperatures and efficiencies, the lose in total engine power was not extemely significant (usually in the ~10% range) but the affect on the engine could not be neglected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate1647545505 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 I agree to a point, BUT, larger plenum volume equates to increased volumetric efficiency throughout the engine range (I agree that it is to a small point though). I however cannot agree to the flow rate per cylinder, I have test VERY similar setups with both Ricardo, and more indepth analysis with Virtual 4 Stroke, and correlated that with real world data on an eddy current engine dynometer, all of this was part of my Thesis, which was on intake manifold design and theory. I demonstrated unequivocally that in log style plenums, the smaller the volume got, the larger the affect on cylinder temperatures and efficiencies, the lose in total engine power was not extemely significant (usually in the ~10% range) but the affect on the engine could not be neglected. Tests done with or without restriction? What pressure/denisty were you modeling at -- and were you modeling for compressable flow? Honostly I'm just curious and am not trying to debate you at all. I think I've woken up to the fact that engineering isnt so much designing, but compromising. If this were a strictly NA motor I'd be giving you a thumbs up, but anytime I've worked with compressable flow -- the rules tend to bend a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Tests done with or without restriction? What pressure/denisty were you modeling at -- and were you modeling for compressable flow? Honostly I'm just curious and am not trying to debate you at all. I think I've woken up to the fact that engineering isnt so much designing, but compromising. If this were a strictly NA motor I'd be giving you a thumbs up, but anytime I've worked with compressable flow -- the rules tend to bend a bit. that is the key.... and I am not debating at all, just an interesting subject, and another strong aspect to engineering is learning from those around you who may have some new insight or fresh eyes to something you haven't seen :thumbsup: As far as restriction, I ran unrestricted vs. 20mm restricted pressure/density, i would have to go back to the lab computer and recheck, its been over a year! and my memory is horrible no compressible flow, for a couple reasons, it is very hard to accurately calculate w/ compressible flow due to its unlinearity. So I can see where bending the rules applies here. I can see wher my results compared to this case may lose validity due to all testing and analysis being ran were for a naturally aspirated engine. anyways, I guess we have kind of hijacked this thread, SORRY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fist302 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Very cool build. That car is gonna surprise the shit out of some people when finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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