V8 Beast Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 What do I need to do to make it so that my Envoy can tow 6,000 lbs instead of 4000? I have a feeling that if I tow the TA one more time I'm going to break something. TA = 3700lbs and a trailor is around 2000lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTaylor751647545500 Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 http://www.hoslotcarracing.com/billboard/NOS_Nitrous.jpg But seriously though... Tranny cooler & different gears are two of the major changes that could be made to help out. Found this info on an RV website real quick: Biggest thing in an axle ratio change is getting the engine up into the torque and HP range. While this sounds like a no-brainer, take a look at the HP available at your cruising speed. By going to 3.73 vs 3.55, I raised the 70 mph rpm to around 3K vs some 150 rpm less with the 3.55. 150 rpm is nothing -- however it can make 10 or more HP difference at that speed, since the engine HP curve is at a pretty steep ramp at that RPM. If you have a 3.08, you would notice a significant driveability difference by going to a 3.73 -- with little real penalty in gas mileage. As a reference, assuming my 3.73 cruises (OD) at 2K rpm at 70 MPH now, it would cruise at the same speed at 1651 rpm (OD) with the 3.08. Do you think you'd have heartburn over a cruise of 2K RPM? 2K converts to around 3K in direct (the gear in which I tow) at 70 MPH, which is around 2786 RPM at 65 -- a more natural place to tow. That 2786 would be 2300 RPM in direct at 65 -- which is midway into the torque range, but way down in the HP range. Remember that when Ford was running the 292 in-line six as a towing engine, they spun them in front of a 4.56 ratio direct (no-OD) tranny -- which would have a 65 MPH RPM of around 3406 for the 4.56 -- well into the HP range, and well above the peak torque, meaning that when it pulled down for up-hill jaunts, it would pull down INTO the torque range, rather than pulling down UNDER it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMeanGreen Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 LSX swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 what motor is in it? and why do you feel something is going to break? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 So if I take my 3:73's + LSx out of the trans am and put them in the Envoy... I would be able to tow the trans am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 what motor is in it? and why do you feel something is going to break? Inline 6. I've been towing the TA for 3 years with it, and I noticed on the way to trails it was struggling a little. I think I'm close to killing the tranny or the gears, but thats just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTaylor751647545500 Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 So if I take my 3:73's + LSx out of the trans am and put them in the Envoy... I would be able to tow the trans am Well, you'll get to the track really fast to watch everyone else race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 well make sure your not in over drive(aka turn it off) and the inline 6 is going to have more of a tuff time pulling it. keep the maintance up on it? fuel filter ,plugs etc? you shouldnt be exceding the tougne wieght. that or upgade to a better tow vehicle. then theres always CIA, programmer and so on you could put on it to help it out. first things i did to my superduty when i bought it. only time i ever got the thing to struggle was when i was hauling a 27" inclosed with a 3600lbs car , quad ,full of tools and had a generator with the bed of the truck full of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 well make sure your not in over drive(aka turn it off) and the inline 6 is going to have more of a tuff time pulling it. keep the maintance up on it? fuel filter ,plugs etc? you shouldnt be exceding the tougne wieght. that or upgade to a better tow vehicle. then theres always CIA, programmer and so on you could put on it to help it out. first things i did to my superduty when i bought it. only time i ever got the thing to struggle was when i was hauling a 27" inclosed with a 3600lbs car , quad ,full of tools and had a generator with the bed of the truck full of gear. It does say "recommended" tow wieght. I'll just stick to track within a 45 minute drive for the time being. Hopefully it will hold for another season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spankis Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Do you have load levelers, or just a ball? You'd notice things tow A LOT better w/ load levelers. They don't just make things sit flatter, they distribute the weight from almost entirely on the rear to across both axles of the truck. You may have them, but if not, the $200 or less hitch upgrade would probably benefit you. Obviously this wouldn't give you more power or a better transmission, but hey, it all helps. +1 for gears too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Do you have load levelers, or just a ball? You'd notice things tow A LOT better w/ load levelers. They don't just make things sit flatter, they distribute the weight from almost entirely on the rear to across both axles of the truck. You may have them, but if not, the $200 or less hitch upgrade would probably benefit you. Obviously this wouldn't give you more power or a better transmission, but hey, it all helps. +1 for gears too. The hitch has to metal rods that branch off to the frame. Is that what you are referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spankis Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 The hitch has to metal rods that branch off to the frame. Is that what you are referring to? Yes sir, thank ya sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 A Dyno Tune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 A Dyno Tune 16mpg sucks! 18 sounds a lot better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurkvinny Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 You probably already have a trans cooler if it had a hitch from the factory. Load levelers and an extra rear leaf spring will help with the ride and capacity, but won't do anything for power. Electric breaks would be highly reccomended in your case, do you have them on the trailer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 your truck already has 3.73 gears in it. they either had 3.73 or 4.10 in them. my moms has 4.10 in her envoy so that is always something you could switch to pretty easy. if you set the car back on the trailer some so it keeps the truck level then that helps some to not put so much weight on the hitch. you should also run more air pressure in the rear tires and trailer tires to help with the rolling resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Good info! Thanks. I rent trailors and only one of them had electric brakes. Luckily my drive to the track only has 4 stop lights (the last one to trails is on that big hill ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Brake controller would deffinately help as far as towing a load of that size. Is the tranny slipping, and losing power like you said? I would suggest doing a nice CAI and a tune on it. I should have a time line here shortly on our dyno tuning, as we can set a load on it and possibly see what might be causing your problem. If she's not squating to hard, I wouldn't do an air bag set up yet, unless it squats real bad. My mom and step-dad tow with an 07 Jeep Grand Cherokee a 71 Mustang and trailor on many occasions with no issues what so ever. Throwing a little more power wouldn't hurt what so ever, and making sure it's in tow/haul mode too. (if you've got it) I doubt you need any load leveling to be honest, because you're right around the limit if I'm not mistaken, but I can double tap that for you. If you can, just gimme a shout later, and I can give you our take on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Alright, talked with a tech who owns one, I think 4,700LBS was the "limit" on it, but you can obviously tow more. What's probably giving you the lost power is the torque management GM decided to place upon the ECU. I suspect it has a 4L60E, and what we were thinking is, that torque management is hindering the performance. The I6 doesn't have enough power to ruin that transmission to be honest, but I think with a good tune, you should have no issues what so ever. And a plus side, getting that pig to better economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 You need to make it into a hot car. You can't tow here if you don't have a hot car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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