Buying guns over the internet...

[SPLN SUX]

Isnt it illegal to sell them over the internet? Not so much like we do on here on a forum, but selling mutilple models and having a stock of them... taking payments and shipping them to people at thier homes?

 

I just found this site:

 

http://www.ar15-rifles.com/

 

And you can purchase these things with a credit card. Thats cool for me because i want to buy one for target shooting eventually, but isnt it kind of dangerous to openly sell high powered rifles like this on the web?

 

Either way, i think its sweet that it exsists for my benifit anyway

[Sawbinder]

If you purchase a firearm on the internet they can only ship it to a person who has an FFL. The FFL dealer then does all the paper work and background check on you. For AR's you can buy everything you need to build one less the reciever that you will need an FFl dealer for. Any place will sell you a gun as long as you pass the back ground check and have an FFL dealer that they can ship the gun to for the transfer.

[Mark1647545493]

from that web site....

" Can I really buy a gun over the Internet?

 

Anyone who is legally allowed to own an item is allowed to buy it here. The following information is not intended to be a complete guide to all applicable laws. It is your responsibility to be in compliance with all Federal, state, and local laws when purchasing from this site.

 

What does legally allowed mean? You must be an adult who is able to enter into a contract. Anyone desiring to purchase a firearm or certian gun parts notated with "FFL Only" must be able to pass a background check ( Visit the ATF web site for more information ). There are age limits on the sale of certain items. And certain types of items are illegal in certain places - for example 'assault weapons' cannot be sold in California and certain types of ammunition are illegal in certain states and cities. The NRA also has put together a terrific state-by-state gun laws guide. The ATF has compiled information on the various state laws; click here to view this information. Again, it is your responsibility to make sure that you comply with the laws of your country, city, and state. We do not tolerate attempted illegal activity here!

 

You do not have to be a licensed dealer to buy a firearm. If you are not a licensed dealer (also called an FFL Holder), you must make arrangements with an FFL holder in your state to receive the item and transfer it to you. Virtually anyone who is involved in the sale or distribution of firearms is an FFL holder, including gun shops.

 

Non-firearm items, such as certian gun parts, scopes, knives, and ammunition, do not require transfer by a licensed dealer. There are age restrictions on many of these items, and you may be contacted to verify your age. In general, you must be 18 years old to but items on this site. To buy Pistol ammunition, you must be at least 21 years old; at least 18 years old for Rifle ammunition."

[copperhead]

http://www.ar15-rifles.com/pages/privacy.php

 

Shipping on Long Guns:

 

There will be a $15 shipping charge on all long guns, it will shipped UPS Ground to a FFL dealer near you.

 

They don't ship the gun directly to you. Shipping to your local FFL is completely legal. However, it can be a pain in the ass, and if you are looking for something as common as an AR, you may as well just walk into a local store and get one off the shelf. A lot of FFL's won't do transfers on items that they carry, and AR's will almost always fall into that category.

[copperhead]

oh yeah, anything thats not legally classified as a firearm, such as parts other than receivers, can be shipped directly to you.

 

And finally, reading stickies is good for you

http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44064

[SPLN SUX]

Well I just really like this one

 

http://www.alscustom.com/shop/images/50196.jpg

 

DPMS .308 Long Range

 

Barrel: • 24” Bull barrel • 416 Stainless steel • 6 groove, right-handed 1x10 twist, button rifled

Chamber: • .308 Winchester

 

Method of Operation: • Gas operated rotating bolt

 

Bolt & Carrier: • 8620 chrome-plated steel bolt carrier, heat treated per Mil Spec. • Phosphated 8620 steel bolt, heat treated and plated per Mil Spec.

 

Sights: • None (mounting optics only)

 

Weight: • Empty - 11.28 lbs Length: • 43.6”

 

Upper Receiver: • Thick walled, extruded from 6066-T6 aluminum • Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black • Snag free design, smooth side look • No dust cover • No shell deflector • No forward assist • Right hand ejection • Raised Picatinny rail for easy scope mounting

 

Lower Receiver: • Milled from a solid billet of 6061-T6 aluminum • Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black • Standard A-15 trigger group • Integral trigger guard • Aluminum magazine release button

 

Stock: • Standard A2 black Zytel mil spec w/trap door assembly

 

Handguards: • Ribbed aluminum free float • 2.24” Outside diameter

 

Each rifle comes with 2- 19 rd. Steel Magazines, 1- Nylon Web Sling and 1- Cleaning Kit

 

Note: The JARD Trigger will not ft in the DPMS line of LR-308 rifles!

 

SCOPE NOT INCLUDED

 

Price: $989.00

 

[RedRocket1647545505]

What distance are you planning on shooting?

[SPLN SUX]

What distance are you planning on shooting?

 

500m + or -

 

Theres a range on a road out at Garden of the Gods and part of it looks out over a ravene. I believe the hill side on the other side is roughly in the 500m range and there are a few targets set up by other shooters.

 

Based on how well I do at that range, I may go out furthur, but I think I'll need some practice to learn how to read windage and control my breathing.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Well, if all you plan on doing is shooting around that distance, you could probably save yourself some money by going with a .223. It'd be cheaper to shoot, and would carry just fine to that distance. If you decide to go 700-900+ meters, I'd probably stick with your original choice of .308, especially if you ever decide you want to kill something at that distance and not just hit it.

 

What kind of groups can that DPMS pull?

 

I've been eye-fucking a Fulton Armory for awhile now, but I just dropped $1,500+ on a new .308 bolt gun, so I've got that to satisfy my .308 tastes for awhile.

[schmuckingham]

Well, if all you plan on doing is shooting around that distance, you could probably save yourself some money by going with a .223. It'd be cheaper to shoot, and would carry just fine to that distance. If you decide to go 700-900+ meters, I'd probably stick with your original choice of .308, especially if you ever decide you want to kill something at that distance and not just hit it.

 

What kind of groups can that DPMS pull?

 

I've been eye-fucking a Fulton Armory for awhile now, but I just dropped $1,500+ on a new .308 bolt gun, so I've got that to satisfy my .308 tastes for awhile.

 

 

truth or a 300 WM or WSM

[RedRocket1647545505]

truth or a 300 WM or WSM

 

<3. But probably overkill/overly expensive for punching paper. Just to be clear, though, I'm perfectly ok with overkill.

 

 

p.s. For what it's worth; they also use .223 for 1000yd. national matches up at Camp Perry. So, the round is capable. If you're just punching paper, it might still be an option for you.

[Archie]

truth or a 300 WM or WSM

 

300 WSMs could be considered expensive as fuck for what you're trying to do. I have a model 70 that shoots those, I've only used it for hog/deer hunting...

[schmuckingham]

300 WSMs could be considered expensive as fuck for what you're trying to do. I have a model 70 that shoots those, I've only used it for hog/deer hunting...

 

what am i trying to do with it?????? Not paper targets i can tell you that.

 

 

I agree with Austin and go with with a 223 round or something slightly larger.

[schmuckingham]

<3. But probably overkill/overly expensive for punching paper. Just to be clear, though, I'm perfectly ok with overkill.

 

 

p.s. For what it's worth; they also use .223 for 1000yd. national matches up at Camp Perry. So, the round is capable. If you're just punching paper, it might still be an option for you.

 

 

Well i got a deal and the short mag will work for now

[RedRocket1647545505]

Well i got a deal and the short mag will work for now

 

Nothing wrong with a WSM. I got curious the other night and pulled out my Ammo & Ballistics book to see how big of a difference there was (ballistically) between the WM and the WSM.

 

Conclusion: Hardly any to speak of. :bangbang:

[Nate1647545505]

Work on your shooting skills with a .22 first - both physical aspects and "class room", ballistics, optics, ammunition loads, etc. Strongly consider long range courses from training centers. As much as shooting is a science, it is an art. The price will out weigh what you spend in ammo.

 

Practice, practice, practice, practice.

 

If it were me I would agree with Austin and go with 5.56. I can tell you I've had my doubts with it, but like he mentioned, for paper at 500-600m they aren't a bad choice. The largest problem your going to fight is most likely that of the weapon - .308 has a larger casing and there's been some discrepancy on how well the actions are designed to accommodate it on the AR platform, mainly the low repeatability of exactly how the bullet strikes the rifling during operation. It seems most of the AR10/SR25 setups average between 1.5-2 MOA. That possibility of spread can be somewhat disheartening at ranges like 500-600m.

 

I would recommend a bolt if you want to produce repeatable BOOOOOOOOOM, headshots at those ranges (that includes .223+)

[Nate1647545505]

Some reading material, dated, but still decent:

http://www.enlisted.info/field-manuals/fm-23-10-sniper-training.shtml

[RedRocket1647545505]

Some reading material, dated, but still decent:

http://www.enlisted.info/field-manuals/fm-23-10-sniper-training.shtml

 

Sweet link. Gotta password?

[Nate1647545505]

Sorry didn't see it was protected,

 

HTML Link:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-10/index.html

 

PDF:

http://www.zeroriflescope.co.uk/Sniper-Guide-Table-Contents.pdf

 

Google FM 23-10 and you can find them out there, it's free and declassified. The Navy SEAL Manual is floating around out there also.

 

Forewarning: Reading these does not entitle you to term or compare yourself to those who;ve actually gone through an associated scout/sniper/SDM training course.

[SPLN SUX]

Yea 10inch spreads at 500m is not exactly what I had in mind. Where would I even find a decent bolt action rifle worth keeping to shoot 500-1000m... Im not new to guns, but im not expierenced in the details of guns. Like i could figure out how to take it apart and look at it for about an hour and figure out how it works well enough to clean it and put it back together, but as far as all the tech lingo on trgger pull and MOA (which i just had to look up on Wiki)... not a clue. And ive never bought a gun... i have a few, but they were my dads, and a couple shotguns i recieved for Christmas... other than a gun show or like Bass ProShops... i wouldnt have the slightest idea where to look for a QUALITY firearm.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Yea 10inch spreads at 500m is not exactly what I had in mind. Where would I even find a decent bolt action rifle worth keeping to shoot 500-1000m... Im not new to guns, but im not expierenced in the details of guns. Like i could figure out how to take it apart and look at it for about an hour and figure out how it works well enough to clean it and put it back together, but as far as all the tech lingo on trgger pull and MOA (which i just had to look up on Wiki)... not a clue. And ive never bought a gun... i have a few, but they were my dads, and a couple shotguns i recieved for Christmas... other than a gun show or like Bass ProShops... i wouldnt have the slightest idea where to look for a QUALITY firearm.

 

If you're looking for a basic precision rifle, you could probably expect <1MOA as box stock average.

 

Two of the most popular bolt guns are:

 

1. Remington 700 (700P probably being the most popular). This gun is offered in endless variations, with endless upgrades.

 

2. Savage 10FP. Not quite as much aftermarket following, however, it's widely agreed upon that it's got one of the best triggers available for an off the shelf bolt gun. I just bought a 10FCP (detachable mag version of the FP) with an HS Precision stock. I wanted a basic, not overly expensive, .308 to ease my way into precision distance shooting. I have about 5-6 different Remington 700s on my list of 'must haves', so I decided to go with the Savage to mix it up a bit.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if I've posted it in this thread yet, but I'm a pretty big fan of Budsgunshop.com. They've got GREAT prices and haven't treated me wrong, yet. Or, if you're not sure what you want, I'd recommend going to the store, and playing with some to see what you might like. If you can find someone, and they'll let you, try to shoot some if you can.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Also, like Nate said, it would probably be a good idea to pick up a good .22 rifle to start practicing with some 100yd targets. .22 benchrest guys get SERIOUS about their accuracy and groups. Lots of good, cheap practice to be had there.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Triple post 'cause I can.

 

 

Also, don't forget the other parts of the gun. Optics are a biggie. And they can get REALLY expensive. Again, you've got endless options there.

[SPLN SUX]

Well ive shot my dads .22's, one of which is a bolt, and im pretty good with those. Ive pretty much reached the limit of what you can do with one of those with a 9x scope. My dad was in the reserves when he was youger and was in the sharp shooter trails. He said they used to shoot a 12in target at 200yrd with stock sights, for 50 rounds. You had to hit 48 to go to the sharpshooter school and he shot 47, the one guy that beat him shot 49. So though he wasnt able to go to the school, he still knew his way around the target range. He took me out a few times after practicing with a BB gun and then a break barrel pellet gun. I was shooting 1in targets at like 30yrds with those to start, then moved them back to about 45-50yrds. I think i was breaking 7 out of 10 at that range. With the .22 I was hitting pop cans at the base of tree stumps at about 100yrds. We threw a 9x scope on the bolt gun and i did pretty well with it, but i wasnt good at reading wind so the longer shots were a little spread. So I went back to the pellets. I learned how to compensate with the wind with those because theyre so light... but then i had trouble sighting in becasue the spreads were so large at 100yrs. I thought getting a new one this year would help becasue it was higher power, but it really didnt make much difference.

 

Now im just ready to get a couple sand bags, a pod, and a nice scope and start dialing in my skills. Its almost theraputic for me because i get to just slow my self down and relax. Slowing my breathing, my heart rate, focusing, and pulling the trigger. I just want to throw a target way out there and picking it off. I may take up hunting some day... why chase a animal down when you only have to see it to hit it

[Nate1647545505]

I think the first time you try to shoot 300m+ something clicks in your mind the realization hits how far that actually is (a standard silhouette is roughly the size of the front iron sight on a regular AR at that range). The reality of it: we'll say the zombies attacking you have an approximate hit area of 20in L x 12in H making up the waist to shoulder upper body area and 3in L by 5in W area for a motor control-drop-you-where-you-stand head shot. At 500-600M with a 1 MOA rated setup you have a very high chance, even cold bore, of scoring a hit in the upper torso. It wouldn't be a good idea to try and save your bud who's being held hostage at that range though, but at 300M you atleast have the potential from the equipement.

 

Regarding quality items, I personally like to stick with names that have been in military/law enforcement or just simply precision target shooting. I have a very limited experience with the hunting world vs the tactical world, but I like to stay on the tactical side of the fence.

 

There are a few sights out there like snipercentral.com and snipershide.com where some military and LEO folk hang out. I feel abit spoiled coming from a family of two brothers who both are gun nuts and have alot of experience in long range shooting.

 

The neat thing about getting out to the range is you'll never know who's going to be in the lane next to you; e.g. this past trip to the range we met a marksman of Delaware Police's Tactical Unit.