GonneVille Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 You know nothing of Iraq other than what you see on CNN. You fail at making a point. So you tell me, do you honestly believe that the Iraqi government will be able to stand on its own any time in the foreseeable future? What evidence can you give us? And BTW, you fail, I watch BBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 So you tell me, do you honestly believe that the Iraqi government will be able to stand on its own any time in the foreseeable future? What evidence can you give us? And BTW, you fail, I watch BBC. BBC fails too. And yes, it can stand upon it's own. But, the real stump in the road will probably be the Sunni side of the Gov't. Back when the Ba'ath party was still in play, they had the $$$ and the power. No longer do they have so, and now their the minority. This doesn't sit well with some, but they've gotten better at this. So far the elections have been carried out with quite success, so needless to say they can do it. They need the help of our politicians in OUR government to teach them. They're still a pretty weak democracy, but can be able to stand on its own. It won't happen over night, but it's looking better. The real evidence of this is the election process, something in which no Iraqi had ever done. Atleast the Iraqi's do have some assembly of government, similar to our senate/house of Reps. Having a cabinet, defense force, prime minister, and a form of law/order is a pretty good sign of evidence. That's not to say that people like Al-Sadr won't have his say, but our government isn't blemish free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Out of curiosity, who are you voting for then? I dont know! I have moral issues with Obama, I have other issues with McCain. I really don't see one that much better than the other. Both are on the ticket because they wont do a darn thing to change the fundamentals of our current government. IMHO we need to get back to the Constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 <======== McCain. - I don't see him as more of the same. -I like his Iraq stance/War on Terrorism plan -Tax cuts are a good idea -Maybe he can get us into a flat tax - I like my guns - I think he represents the traditional form of America. (God and Country) - He's a Vet, and I respect that greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 I am most likely going to vote for obama. I might vote for Bob barr. I don't like mccains methods of ads I don't like palin at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 I just wanted to take this time to thank the Obama supporters for proving the point of this thread. Thank you Proving what point, that because we won't vote for a religious nut job like palin or a war monger like mccain were evil? Or liberals? I get so fucking sick of your high and mighty attitude when it comes to shit. How can a christian vote for someone who's who campiagn strategy is to LIE about the other person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverMaker Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 To be honest, there are plenty of ways to pay for college, I don't see that being a prority for the US Government to change. Get a job, join the military, get a grant etc.... Paying for your masters and then doctorate on a teachers salary is not easy. I am seeing the effects first hand. Even with district grants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Proving what point, that because we won't vote for a religious nut job like palin or a war monger like mccain were evil? Or liberals? I get so fucking sick of your high and mighty attitude when it comes to shit. How can a christian vote for someone who's who campiagn strategy is to LIE about the other person? Thank you for supporting the point of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Proved what? That my Morales are better then yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted October 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Proved what? That my Morales are better then yours? Strike three. Go ride the pine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conesmasher Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Dr. Rick For the last eight years we've had a republican president. For six/eight years we have had a republican congress. But our gov't has gone through some of the largest expansion in my lifetime. Bush has squandered all of any surplus and not truly addressed the deficit. John has been part of all of this, his leadership skills have been subpar. But this notion that Obama will spend us into oblivion may be TRUE.......but at least he's telling us what he's going to do. I don't remember that from Bush's campaign speeches. Obama has stated that he will reinstate PAYGO, which does not allow any new spending without the proportional tax increase. This idea brings some level of accountability to spending............who removed the PAYGO rules previously, the genius republicans. I think that if we reinstate PAYGO, they'll be some more accountability in our congressional spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted October 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Dr. Rick For the last eight years we've had a republican president. For six/eight years we have had a republican congress. But our gov't has gone through some of the largest expansion in my lifetime. Bush has squandered all of any surplus and not truly addressed the deficit. John has been part of all of this, his leadership skills have been subpar. But this notion that Obama will spend us into oblivion may be TRUE.......but at least he's telling us what he's going to do. I don't remember that from Bush's campaign speeches. Obama has stated that he will reinstate PAYGO, which does not allow any new spending without the proportional tax increase. This idea brings some level of accountability to spending............who removed the PAYGO rules previously, the genius republicans. I think that if we reinstate PAYGO, they'll be some more accountability in our congressional spending. I will not disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Proving what point, that because we won't vote for a religious nut job like palin or a war monger like mccain were evil? Or liberals? I get so fucking sick of your high and mighty attitude when it comes to shit. How can a christian vote for someone who's who campiagn strategy is to LIE about the other person? Holy fuck Thorne, how completely dull can you be? Your problem is, you only see things two ways; you think bad people vote for Mccain and "good" people vote for Obama. It's way too complex for a simple mind as yours to comprehend. A LOT of conservatives aren't thrilled and accepting the Republican candidate and you STILL think any conservative person is voting for him. How many times did you accuse Rick of planning to vote for him, when he's never mentioned it? Than again, I'm talking to a guy who thinks John Mccain makes his ads himself and that is a sole reason not to vote for someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Than again, I'm talking to a guy who thinks John Mccain makes his ads himself and that is a sole reason not to vote for someone. +1 Thorne, you're surprised that parties run ads on TV talking shit about the opposing candidate? Dude, were you born yesterday? Welcome to the wonderful world of politics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Whether John McCain is a good man and truly believes in his country (which I do believe) is irrelevant due to the people he's chosen to surround himself with and to help represent him. He's completely flipped from who he once was and that's an immediate red flag for me. I think the reasons why Obama supporters are so quick to answer why they would vote Obama is because the evidence as to why they wouldn't vote for McCain is so strong. I think many people are having a hard time trusting any politician at this point and truly believe Obama is the lesser of two evils, so to speak, especially when both sides claim to have the plan to save the country. It's like how they teach to pass a multiple choice test. If you can't figure out which one's the answer outright, start eliminating the ones you know are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Rick, I'd say that GoneVille, MutCrutch, and ConeSmasher have pretty much given you an answer to your question. Reasons to vote for Obama: His plan for Iraq, Education Reform, Healthcare plan, PayGo structure. Are these really that revolutionary and make him the messiah? No, but they are valid reasons to vote for him for many people. I myself am still quite torn on this election as I don't want to cast a vote against someone, but that's the breaks sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Strike three. Go ride the pine. WTF YOU TALKING ABOUT. I support a canidate that has ran a pretty damn clean campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 I'm sorry I was brought up to not be a lieing piece of warmongering shit. my bad I will go back to school and see if they can teach me how to care about big business before the people and to make my campiagn about lies. Yes i think those who call there selves christians are hypocritical idiots if they vote for a liar like mccain. Look There is a major difference in how the two campaigned so far. And that difference is what makes me choose obama. It is settled I am voting for obama unless in the next 3 weeks something changes major. From the ad's which is what 90% of the people go buy OBAMA HAS A PLAN. Mccain does to it's just to make obama look bad. WHY because he's in the same mindset as bush on allot of things. Obama - BETTER EDUCATION / Make college reachable by more people. Mccain - Lets give vouchers and those of you wealthy enough can goto private schools fuck the public Obama - Taxes , I want to lower it for the middle income of america and not renew the breaks the upper class has gotten Mccain - I'm going to lower it for all but im not sure how I'm going to lower the defficent. Obama - Prochoice / I FEEL IT's a womens body /thread Mccain - Prolife Obama - Energy He wishes to invest more in technology's vs drilling Mccain - DRILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Palin - Religous nut job Biden - Loud mouth If your going to be on the Right you better me damn squeaky clean and mccain is far from that. To complex huh, I am not Joe Six Pack. Your right I'm an idiot because I think Mccain has a HUGE FLAW that would not allow me in good conscious to vote for him. Holy fuck Thorne, how completely dull can you be? Your problem is, you only see things two ways; you think bad people vote for Mccain and "good" people vote for Obama. It's way too complex for a simple mind as yours to comprehend. A LOT of conservatives aren't thrilled and accepting the Republican candidate and you STILL think any conservative person is voting for him. How many times did you accuse Rick of planning to vote for him, when he's never mentioned it? Than again, I'm talking to a guy who thinks John Mccain makes his ads himself and that is a sole reason not to vote for someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Of course Obama wouldn't lie.............................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Of course Obama wouldn't lie.............................. The funny thing is, we all get pissed when our candidates lie. But we're electing them to a position where they MUST lie. How do you think the cold war would have gone if we told the USSR the truth: "You know, we think you're evil and a rather crappy country. You can't even feed your own people: and I won't even get into the toilet paper issue. Your military? It looks like something out of World War II. C'mon, ever hear of the microchip? I'd look into it. As for your nukes, we're not all THAT afraid. I mean, what's the likelyhood of one of those ACTUALLY making it over here?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 The funny thing is, we all get pissed when our candidates lie. But we're electing them to a position where they MUST lie. How do you think the cold war would have gone if we told the USSR the truth: "You know, we think you're evil and a rather crappy country. You can't even feed your own people: and I won't even get into the toilet paper issue. Your military? It looks like something out of World War II. C'mon, ever hear of the microchip? I'd look into it. As for your nukes, we're not all THAT afraid. I mean, what's the likelyhood of one of those ACTUALLY making it over here?" Fucked up part was Russia actually had more warheads than us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Fucked up part was Russia actually had more warheads than us It's not the size of the arsenal..... ..but the chemical purity of the viagra... err.. uranium.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5gsTYniQUk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonneVille Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Fucked up part was Russia actually had more warheads than us You're right about that, but their success rate in testing was absolutely pitiful, over 50% of Soviet warheads tested straight from the line either failed to detonate, or were a fizzle yield. Thus the reason that a large portion of Siberia is a radioactive wasteland. Meanwhile, IIRC, as far as can be told from declassified documents the USA has never had a failure to detonate, or a fizzle-yield. Not that it mattered. Even with Russia's miserable record, both countries still would have been obliterated in the event of nuclear war. BTW, Scotty, if you want to read something absolutely hilarious, see if you can find a book titled The New Maginot Line. It was written in like 1987, and the author attacks Reagan and the military for the strategy of economic warfare, saying that Russia was too stable to bankrupt itself through military spending. He also attacks the M1 Abrams, F-15, and A-10 as boondoggles and failures, among other things he was spectacularly wrong about.:jerkit: Trust me, you'll laugh your ass off for days. [/offtopic] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 I support a candidate that has ran a pretty damn clean campaign. Ron Paul! Biden - Loud mouth gun grabber dot dot dot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 BTW, Scotty, if you want to read something absolutely hilarious, see if you can find a book titled The New Maginot Line. It was written in like 1987, and the author attacks Reagan and the military for the strategy of economic warfare, saying that Russia was too stable to bankrupt itself through military spending. He also attacks the M1 Abrams, F-15, and A-10 as boondoggles and failures, among other things he was spectacularly wrong about.:jerkit: Trust me, you'll laugh your ass off for days. [/offtopic] Read the book a while back, it was a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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