Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record at Nurburgring

[Buteo]

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/

 

Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.

Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

 

It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

 

"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

 

"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

 

He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

 

Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

 

He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

 

"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

 

Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

 

But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

 

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

 

Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

 

"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

 

"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

 

In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

 

"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.

 

- Herald Sun

 

 

Oh boy, the GTR fanboi's arent going to like this. Not. One. Bit. :bangbang:

[Smokey]

the GTR fanboys are busy blowing up their transmissions and not having them covered under warranty

[87GT]

the GTR fanboys are busy blowing up their transmissions and not having them covered under warranty

 

LOL

[CRed05]

GT-R ftl

[Rally Pat]

the GTR fanboys are busy blowing up their transmissions and not having them covered under warranty

 

HA.

 

Roflsaurusrex.

[Forrest Gump 9]

I don't think it will be matter. As of right now, I don't think you can even buy a GTR at any dealer in the US at sticker price. So, in a way Nissan got what they wanted. As far as the tranny claim above, is it true?

[Kevin R.]

I don't think it will be matter. As of right now, I don't think you can even buy a GTR at any dealer in the US at sticker price. So, in a way Nissan got what they wanted. As far as the tranny claim above, is it true?

 

Pretty much true.

 

http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56389

[Skinner]

maybe Porsche forgot to turn off the VDC switch.

[Smokey]

maybe Porsche forgot to turn off the VDC switch.

 

gotta give props....that was a pretty good one....I LOL'd

[Draco-REX]

Forget the 'ring, the manufacturers should let the Stig take them for a spin around the Top Gear test track. There's a standard!

[ImUrOBGYN]

Forget the 'ring, the manufacturers should let the Stig take them for a spin around the Top Gear test track. There's a standard!

Recently, within the two first episodes of Top Gear Australia, the Stig drove the GTR around their track in Australia. I can't remember what all cars they've tested on it so far, but I do know the Ford GT was faster than the GTR.

[CRed05]

Nissan fights back...

 

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/porsche-vs-nissan

 

 

Nissan has responded angrily to Porsche’s claims that it faked its astonishing GT-R Nurburgring lap time, and has suggested that Porsche’s test drivers need to ‘get a bit quicker’.

 

Back in May, Nissan reported that its production GT-R had lapped the Nurburgring Nordschleife in an near-unbelievable 7m29s in the hands of its test driver Tochio Suzuki: a full three seconds quicker than a Porsche GT2, and one of the fastest-ever production times on the ‘Ring.

 

Despite video evidence, Porsche was sceptical, and last month claimed that Nissan posted the quicker times because the GT-R was running semi-slick race tyres. Which would mean it wasn’t production-spec.

 

In fact, Porsche went as far as buying a US-spec GT-R – worth $77,000 – and shipping it out to the ‘Ring along with a 911 Turbo and a 911 GT2. In the hands of a Porsche test driver, the GT-R posted a time of 7m 54s, with the Turbo clocking 7m38s and the GT2 managing 7m34s.

 

Nissan’s top brass are rather cheesed off that Porsche’s top brass are calling them fibbers, and have emphatically stated that the GT-R was on production rubber.

 

Nissan’s European spokesman Neil Reeve said in Paris that they were at a loss to explain why Porsche couldn’t replicate Nissan’s own lap time.

 

He said that Nissan was ‘flattered’ that Porsche had bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany, but reaffirmed that the GT-R has beaten the 911 Turbo in a number of independent tests.

 

And Nissan has also released a photo of the actual tyres used for the test, plus a second Nurburgring video as evidence of its claims. Even better, Nissan has offered free training for the Porsche test drivers if they want to attempt another lap in the GT-R.

 

Reckon we’ve heard the last of this? Us neither. There’s only one way to settle this.

 

The Stig.

[Smokey]

I would love to see a stig match up.

 

 

I think the biggest difference we're seeing though is that Porsche is comparing the GT-R to the GT2 and GT3, while Nissan is comparing it to the standard turbo model.

[CRed05]

The turbo is faster than the gt3, and the gt2 pwns the other 2...how can they compare it to the slower AND the fastest one

 

[Smokey]

depends on which source you get it from. Wikipedia has the 997 Turbo as being faster than the GT3, while other sources such as FastLaps as the GT3 being faster. I think all the times on the track are pretty subjective anyway since there doesn't seem to be a standard to any of the testing.

 

In the original article in this thread about Porsche testing it though they use both of their GT variants which are their track-oriented cars, whereas Nissan used the 997 Turbo which makes some sense as it's the closest price-wise. You'll never get a true concensus as to what it should actually be compared to.

[AudiOn19s]

Around a track the GT3 is usually faster than a Turbo although I could see the additional power of the turbo being an advantage at the 'Ring since it's soo long. The turbo in stock form will barely pull the GT3 though in a straight line.

 

I found it particularly amusing that Porsche stated that the GT-R might be a more direct comparison to their Panamera sedan!!!

[CRed05]

According to Porsche the GT-R is slower than all its cars. I'm with Porsche on this one. 25 seconds is a long time between professional drivers. Plus, this is Porsche's home track with a driver that knows the place like the back of his hand. On top of that these cars are making similar power, with the GT-R being heavier and not to mention Porsche has A LOT more racing experience with their cars than Nissan...yet somehow the GT-R still wins?

 

I say nice try nissan...but :gtfo:

[ImUrOBGYN]

According to Porsche the GT-R is slower than all its cars. I'm with Porsche on this one. 25 seconds is a long time between professional drivers. Plus, this is Porsche's home track with a driver that knows the place like the back of his hand. On top of that these cars are making similar power, with the GT-R being heavier and not to mention Porsche has A LOT more racing experience with their cars than Nissan...yet somehow the GT-R still wins?

 

I say nice try nissan...but :gtfo:

I say it's possible due to the "tech-wizz" factor of the gtr. What I have a hard time believing is that Porsche couldn't get anywhere near the times Nissan did.

Personally, I can't wait to see how it all turns out.

[jerrodh]

Wouldn't there be some kind of screening, I mean if Nissan is out on the track to set records you think there would be neutral inspectors of the car as well as participating in the event to ensure there was no shady gray area's nissan went into.

 

Just saying its kind of weird for Nissan to make such a claim, and build a car just for this specific reason and then in the end cheat over it.

 

Not saying its not possible but if they did thats pretty fucking stupid on they're part.

[Smokey]

most of the track times are obtained when the manufacturer rents the course for events, so there is not any "offical" timing by an unbiased 3rd party such as a racing organization. There's video evidence, but porsche is claiming the use of different tires which you couldn't prove through an in-car video. Also, there's even been some questions raised to the validity of the "clock" used to mark the flying laps.

[getnbze]

you know there are other things that make a car fast such as suspension, aero dynamics. maybe the japs are onto something the germans dont know. this will be interesting to see how it pans out.

[Skinner]

you know there are other things that make a car fast such as suspension, aero dynamics. maybe the japs are onto something the germans dont know. this will be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

suspension, aero dynamics can't be a factor when Porsche bought a car to test unless Nissan did changes to the orginal car.

 

what they really need to do is have both car companies go to a dealership pick up a factory fresh car and run them on the track the same day to settle it.

[carl1647545492]

Sounds like a typical street tire at the limit not some ringer tire Porsche are claiming.

If Nissan cheated and I think they did,they probably did aero tweaks and turned up the boost.

[brizanden]

^ u might have it. they could easily up boost and no one would ever know just from looking at it.

but the tech on the nissan still may have a factor. maybe the nissan jap driver had driven it alot more and knew the limits of the tech better thus pushed it alot harder.

[Buteo]

^ u might have it. they could easily up boost and no one would ever know just from looking at it.

but the tech on the nissan still may have a factor. maybe the nissan jap driver had driven it alot more and knew the limits of the tech better thus pushed it alot harder.

29 seconds better.... :bs: