cinergi Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration... Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 and ban guns bows and arrows, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Thats pretty cool, but indians were run out by things like yellow fever and technologically superior people. If we go down due to immigration it will be our own fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 When posting a quote, it is customary to give credit. Just so people are not tricked into thinking you are the witty one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Thats pretty cool, but indians were run out by things like yellow fever and technologically superior people. If we go down due to immigration it will be our own fault. Actually the Indians were done in by betrayal by the British who had promised to help them and give them supplies. When the U.S. won the Revolution, the British said "fuck you" and packed up all their shit and left. Up until the mid 1790's or so, the Indians were more than winning the war. The American Army couldn't even advance on the Indians without getting slaughtered. The Battle of Fallen Timbers was like the only battle that the Americans won, but that was mainly due to concessions by the Indians on land. In years past, the military would have never made it as far as they did without getting ambushed 100's of time. The Indians had given up so much land they lost the strategical advantage. If you would like an interesting way to read up on pushing the Indians east, I suggest Alan Eckerts books. He makes up conversations and stuff, but keeps all the important historical context factual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 When posting a quote, it is customary to give credit. Just so people are not tricked into thinking you are the witty one. ?? you cornfused me here. Wrong thread maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Actually the Indians were done in by betrayal by the British who had promised to help them and give them supplies. When the U.S. won the Revolution, the British said "fuck you" and packed up all their shit and left. Up until the mid 1790's or so, the Indians were more than winning the war. The American Army couldn't even advance on the Indians without getting slaughtered. The Battle of Fallen Timbers was like the only battle that the Americans won, but that was mainly due to concessions by the Indians on land. In years past, the military would have never made it as far as they did without getting ambushed 100's of time. The Indians had given up so much land they lost the strategical advantage. If you would like an interesting way to read up on pushing the Indians east, I suggest Alan Eckerts books. He makes up conversations and stuff, but keeps all the important historical context factual. Not gonna argue since it looks like you know some stuff. I think I'm more referring to earlier times. They basically didn't have to let us come here in the first place. I'm sure the natives were gonna walk over to the New England area and just push us back into the ocean. Sure the frontier was rough, but that was the frontier. Very large area to protect, very young country trying to do it. Not ideal circumstances for any invading army and basically perfect conditions for the defenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinergi Posted January 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 When posting a quote, it is customary to give credit. Just so people are not tricked into thinking you are the witty one. I certainly didn't write it, but came across it in another forum. I am unsure of the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Not gonna argue since it looks like you know some stuff. I think I'm more referring to earlier times. They basically didn't have to let us come here in the first place. I'm sure the natives were gonna walk over to the New England area and just push us back into the ocean. Sure the frontier was rough, but that was the frontier. Very large area to protect, very young country trying to do it. Not ideal circumstances for any invading army and basically perfect conditions for the defenders. Well the Indians were actually peaceful. They always wanted peace. They always thought "well if we give up this small chunk of land, it will stop there" and the settlers just kept taking more and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supldys Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Well the Indians were actually peaceful. They always wanted peace. They always thought "well if we give up this small chunk of land, it will stop there" and the settlers just kept taking more and more. Appeasement never works,and apparently being peace-loving hippies doesnt either. I feel bad for taking their land, but you know, it was manifest destiny. From sea to shining sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinHawk1647545499 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 initially i was against amnesty for illegals and immigration, but i began to think about the boom from the baby boomer's, on how it helped the economy and allot of problems (including the sucky social security) and falling housing market will be caused be the population not increasing that fast. now say that the immigrates were allowed citizenship if, they obtained from crime (no gangbangers, you on probation you commit a crime you get shipped back) and must assimilate to our culture, (you speak english), and your not allowed to leach off wealfare or any government program (got to have a job) do you think that could help our countries economy with the increase of demands. something to discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I dont think you can compare Mexicans jumping the border to make a buck to people who didnt believe in ownership of land, being slaughtered by people far more technologically advanced looking to steal the land from them to benefit themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Appeasement never works,and apparently being peace-loving hippies doesnt either. I feel bad for taking their land, but you know, it was manifest destiny. From sea to shining sea. The part I feel shittiest about is when the Indians finally wised up and started fighting back the Virginians were appalled that they would do such a thing and Washington ordered the eradication and relocation of the Indians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 How coincendental. My gf and I were discussing the topic this weekend. Native Americans were wiped out for many reasons. Bunch of Europeans steadily influxing while individual tribes remained, well, individual instead of working together to stop the Euro settlers. OF course, it's not like they saw it coming. Second, some were peaceful and paid the price. Those that could not be defeated through brute force were tricked and/or sickened through poisoning of water supplies, trades goods and foods. In some cases, those who held important roles in their tribes were kidnapped or tricked into being captured through promises of peace, etc. My overall feeling isn't one of technical superiority with Euro settlers, but of sneakiness, underhanded dealings, trickery, disease brought from filthy euro living conditions, a belief in thier own superiority (this probably doesn't mean what you think it does, but I haven't the time for specific explanation) and excellent mercantile skills (like the Imperials in Oblivion). This last one is very important. Their drive for trade and bartering helped them to spread and acquire many of the "technological advances" they had at the time. Much of their tech had originated from trades with Asian culture. Man, there really is so much more to this. Much that many don't really even think about it. Just no place or time for it here. I would love to talk about this shit in person since I'm outta time at the moment. I'll finish with this thought. I've always wondered how this side of the world would have progressed had it been left to it's own ways. It would have been incredibly interesting to see the differences in tech, culture, way of life, architectual differences, etc. Many quickly make the assumption that Euros were so much more advanced, but I ask you. What makes you so sure? What defines being more advanced? Some of the more advanced Native cultures were further advanced in math and astronomy, not to mention, some natives had created buildings/structures that still leave us wondering how they did it. Hell, we still can't get time/calendars right. Sometimes, things aren't as obvious as they seem. Shit, (bear with me for this analogy) just because an alien can fly to Earth, doesn't mean they're more technologically superior. Many of our own discoveries have been accidental; discovered while searching for something else. If you've ever played Star Control II (yes, another video game reference ), this would be the equivalent of the Thraddash. Dumb as hell and mean, but accidentally discovered long distance space flight. Ah shit, I'm really late now and still don't feel I've even scratched the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicktcfcsb Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 KILL KILL KILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I think I killed this thread with too much typing. I'm so mouthy in the mornings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I'll try to revive the thread. I think its interesting. As for the American Indians scale of advancedness (heheh bushism) they lived the same way for hundreds and for the most part thousands of years. Same with Africa, and Australia. South America got some neat stuff going though. In the case of a civilizations survival against other civilizations military technology can be very important. Thats the basic reason behind continuing to develop new tech. The Indians wouldn't have survived the same type of invasion by settlers from the bronze or iron age either. I'm not ragging on Indians and don't mean to sound like it. I'm descended from native americans myself. My brother got the looks though. He looks so native american its kinda funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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