Mattsv8 Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 yea the auto meter changes for different fuel types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 not to stir the pot too much, but what about methanol injection on top of standard pump as opposed to going full e85? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattsv8 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 check on snow performance. they have meth kits. the tunning is the same. they use it to increase octane to strive off det. e85 has to be ran from 25% to 30% richer than gas. so it deff is not correct at 14.7 that would be too lean. all i know is on spray i was tunning to be safe 30% more on the fuel side and it was spot on on every pass. and it was deff not rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 That's because it's not a true 14.7:1 ratio. Fact is, the AEM doesn't have a way to change the AFR readout from gasoline to E85. Apparently the Autometer does, but I doubt it's an E85 ratio it displays. Probably E100. So technically if you have a gauge that only displays gasoline AFR, you can fill it up with E85 or pure ethanol and stoich on your gauge is going to still be 14.7. Lambda is independent of fuel type, and AFR is a calculation of lambda. Obviously you just need more fuel. 14.7 (gas) / 9.87 (E85) = 1.49. So basically take your base req_fuel pulse width, and multiply it by 1.49 and there is your new base injector pulse width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I guess my point with suggesting to Thorne about meth injection is that he would be able to gain pretty much all of the benefit of running e85 without A) requiring more load from his fuel system (actually he'd be removing fuel). and B) having to worry about always being within range of an e85 station. Plus you're not using 30% more fuel when you're tooling around town either. I think e85 has many benefits, but is more suited to people that would normally be running race gas instead such as Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 The problem with running meth unless I can add the timing on the fly it won't help me. Scenario A. I'm out of Meth. I don't relize I'm out of meth. I take off on the freeway like I always do. ohh shit to much timing KNOCK KNOCK BOOOOOOOOOM My driving habbits are extremly hard on a car. I do go WOT every day. I enjoy it. Part of the reason I've never put spray on my car is excatly that. I would be sad when I was low on spray. I would be the dumb ass who would spray the on ramp to the freeway. I'm going to have to read more about meth. I've got allot more reading to do period but I had to start somewhere. At the very least I'm going to try E85 out and see what it nets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 the newer advanced AI systems have fail-safe systems in place to help in those situations. FJO has a new system that also works as your boost controller. If you have any failure in the AI system then it will pull boost automatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main3s Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 not to stir the pot too much, but what about methanol injection on top of standard pump as opposed to going full e85? Why not both, with a side of N20? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I've been running E85 for about 20,000 consecutive miles in my EVO. I run an AEM EMS that has all been tuned by me. Pros- 1.) The fuel is awesome. I can push the car to high end race gas levels and get similar results. There are EVOs going 9s on it and 1 in the 8s so far. The stuff works. 2.) It makes controlling large injectors more manageable since you need such a larger IPW compared to gasoline. Cons- 1.) Price- It used to be $.50/gallon cheaper than 87 octane which made is reasonable. It is now only a dime cheaper so it actually costs me more to run E85 than 93 octane once the decreased gas mileage of E85 is factored in. 2.) Cold starts when its wicked cold can be challenging depending on how good you are with engine management. 3.) Availability- Depending on where you travel outside of Columbus (and the size of your gas tank) then you're going to have trouble making a long round trip commute of more than 4 hours. Tuning for the fuel is going to be application specific and my only first hand knowledge is on DSM/EVOs. I can tell you that my tuning approaches that I have found work best are different with E85 vs gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Sweet mike thanks for the input. Once I start tuning it I will keep people posted to what I find. I'm looking forward to doing something new. The idea of a BC/meth system don't sound bad eather. I just think overall I would like e85 better because of the way I drive. I really wish opecu would support map switching. That would make this allot easier. I'm really hoping to pick up some tq down low due to the increase in timing. A temporary fix for my desire of a 2.5 :* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 You will make more power on E85 than pump/meth injection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2k2gt Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 You will make more power on E85 than pump/meth injection. Why would you make more on the E85? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Why would you make more on the E85? Because you will reach the knock threshold of pump/meth before you will on E85 (in my experience). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main3s Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Why would you make more on the E85? Most people have a harder time tuning with meth injection from what I've read. E85 is a little simpler to tune. i'm sure a perfectly set up meth injection would make more power, but it's just ahrd to do... At least that what I've heard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 i'm sure a perfectly set up meth injection would make more power Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main3s Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Why? I'm not an expert on the subject but again from what I've read about it, there is a 2 part benifit to meth injection. With its high latent heat of vaporization cools the intake charge and combustion. So it will cool your intake temps allowing for more timing and or boost. Methanol cools the charge and combustion but also acts like an extremely high octane fuel (some researchers claim as high as 120 octane). So you get the cooling benifet along with the higher octain benifet. However like I said all along, I'm no expert on it. I've looked into both as a means to run more boost without an IC (Thanks GM) but decided for many reasons that neither were a path I wanted to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'm not an expert on the subject but again from what I've read about it, there is a 2 part benifit to meth injection. With its high latent heat of vaporization cools the intake charge and combustion. So it will cool your intake temps allowing for more timing and or boost. Methanol cools the charge and combustion but also acts like an extremely high octane fuel (some researchers claim as high as 120 octane). So you get the cooling benifet along with the higher octain benifet. However like I said all along, I'm no expert on it. I've looked into both as a means to run more boost without an IC (Thanks GM) but decided for many reasons that neither were a path I wanted to go. Injecting a nozzle or 2 worth of meth is not going raise your motor octane level to 120. You do get the cooling effect as you described but you get a similar effect by just running E85. More importantly, if you are running a larger turbo, throwing 30-40% more mass of fuel through a system produces much more exhaust energy which helps to spool a system sooner and make more torque. This is a big benefit of running E85 over gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1647545496 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 e-85 stoich is 9.765 e-85 max power rich is 6.975 e-85 max power lean is 8.4687 if your using lambda e-85 stoich is 1 e-85 max power rich is .7143 e-85 max power lean is .8673 my car ran awesome on e-85 but it's more expensive per mile compared to 94 sunocco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2k2gt Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'll continue to use 94 and spray a lot of methanol. Does anyone know where I can get some methanol. I ran out today and really need some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Well I ordered my intake step 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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