DTM Brian Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Both cars using the factory size blower pulleys which is 3.5" in diameter. It is suprising that the Mach 1 shows 2+ pounds of less boost yet makes identical power to the cobra up to 6000 rpm's. My guess is the Mach 1 Heads and Cams flow more air causing the boost to read less. You can see the Mach out shines the Cobra above 6000 rpm's. Also keep in mind the compression of the mach is close to 2 points higher the the Cobra. Blue= Mach 1 Tuned with the Eaton (3.5" pulley) and exhaust Red= Cobra with stock pulley (3.5") and stock tune with catback and filter. http://75.180.27.125:50001/Dyno%20Graphs%20and%20Pictures./Dyno%20Graphs/Eaton%20Cobra%20vs%20Eaton%20Mach%201%20Comparsion%20002.jpg Peak numbers are very close here. However the cobra is making close to 5 pounds more boost at 6000 rpm's. Blue= 03 Cobra with Dyno Tune, 2.93" Blower Pulley, Catback, Exhaust Red= Mach 1 Tuned with the Eaton (3.5" pulley) and exhaust http://75.180.27.125:50001/Dyno%20Graphs%20and%20Pictures./Dyno%20Graphs/Eaton%20Cobra%20vs%20Eaton%20Mach%201%20Comparsion.jpg Would like to see Mach 1 heads and cams on a 03 Cobra shortblock and a 2.8H Kennebell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryscobra Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 +2 I think MM&FF's 03 cobra guinea pig made 770rwhp with the 2.8 KB Mammoth so with Mach heads and cams i would say 800+rwhp.....with instant tq. Would be a shit load to get to the ground. But fun none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 +2 I think MM&FF's 03 cobra guinea pig made 770rwhp with the 2.8 KB Mammoth so with Mach heads and cams i would say 800+rwhp.....with instant tq. Would be a shit load to get to the ground. But fun none the less. I have done a hand full of 03/04's with the 2.8H. 700 rwhp has been the norm at 20-21 psi and race gas. I tune them right around 650 rwhp with pump. A difference of about 5-6 degrees of timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryscobra Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I wonder where they got 770rwhp? I know every setup is different. Maybe the car had cams and some other misc. shit I missed. Any of these 2.8 cars around here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRust Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 uhh are you sure here Brian? I was always told the mach 1 heads and cams were identical to 03/04 cobra heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I wonder where they got 770rwhp? I know every setup is different. Maybe the car had cams and some other misc. shit I missed. Any of these 2.8 cars around here? 770 with the mamoth intake. The cars tend to loose boost when trying to pull air from the passenger side and the stock blower elbow. There are 2 cars locally running around with the 2.8H blowers. I forgot to mention that 1 is also spraying with a 75 jet and making close to 800 rwhp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 uhh are you sure here Brian? I was always told the mach 1 heads and cams were identical to 03/04 cobra heads. Heads might be the same. I bet the cams are different. Look at how the Mach keeps pulling while the cobra is done making power. Also notice the boost difference. Something has to be different other then just compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryscobra Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Ok that clears it up. And yes Derek they are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRust Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 copied from the mach 1 board from a very reliable source doesnt mention cams though Here is the difference 02-03 mach 1 and cobra heads this was the first run of the mach1 and cobra heads, after a million complaints about excessive noise in the valve train on the drivers side ford figured they had to do something so they revised the drivers head. When the car came on to the service drive the first thing the service writer does is run TSBs to find any open complaints and the drivers head had a TSB for noise so ford started replacing them well about 2-3 months in to this they found out that they were redoing some of the cars that had already been don’t so the change the head by having then painted with a blue strip. Now this has no reworking other than some different valve guides but in fords attempt to keep the technicians from double dipping they painted the service head blue so the service writer knows if the TSB had been done or not. This head was the first head and only has 4 spark plug threads mid 03 to end of 03 cobra and mach 1 heads This is the 4V head that has been painted with a blue strip to show this is what ford though would take care of the excessive noise from the valve train (little did ford know that the piston slap was the cause for this noise) way to go ford !!! This head also possesses 4 sparkplug threads 11/15/2003- 4/2004 This was the first 9 thread head this was the 2004 cobra and the mach 1 head for 2004 this head was completely different. This was the last revision head also known as the FR500 replacement head. This head was issued some time after 11/15/2004 I have confirmed this with every 2004 cobra and mach 1 I have ever touched (approximately 50-60 cobras and 20-30 mach1s ) this head has improved ports also the coolant passages have also been changed. The only way to tell what head you have is by the thread count in the head. 9 thread signifies you have the 2004 heads and 4 thread signifies you have the 2003 heads (while nonpainted 2003 heads notes early 2003 heads) Now there is an easy test to see what heads you have seeing as how all of the threads are at the bottom coming up you can perform a simple thread count test. Start from the tight position and count the number of turns it takes to remove the sparkplug 4-5 turns means you have 4 thread and 8-9 turns means you have the 9 thread heads. if you are buying heads keep this in mind or simply contact me to buy new heads 9 thread with the improved passages 1500 a set complete new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 copied from the mach 1 board from a very reliable source doesnt mention cams though Here is the difference 02-03 mach 1 and cobra heads this was the first run of the mach1 and cobra heads, after a million complaints about excessive noise in the valve train on the drivers side ford figured they had to do something so they revised the drivers head. When the car came on to the service drive the first thing the service writer does is run TSBs to find any open complaints and the drivers head had a TSB for noise so ford started replacing them well about 2-3 months in to this they found out that they were redoing some of the cars that had already been don’t so the change the head by having then painted with a blue strip. Now this has no reworking other than some different valve guides but in fords attempt to keep the technicians from double dipping they painted the service head blue so the service writer knows if the TSB had been done or not. This head was the first head and only has 4 spark plug threads mid 03 to end of 03 cobra and mach 1 heads This is the 4V head that has been painted with a blue strip to show this is what ford though would take care of the excessive noise from the valve train (little did ford know that the piston slap was the cause for this noise) way to go ford !!! This head also possesses 4 sparkplug threads 11/15/2003- 4/2004 This was the first 9 thread head this was the 2004 cobra and the mach 1 head for 2004 this head was completely different. This was the last revision head also known as the FR500 replacement head. This head was issued some time after 11/15/2004 I have confirmed this with every 2004 cobra and mach 1 I have ever touched (approximately 50-60 cobras and 20-30 mach1s ) this head has improved ports also the coolant passages have also been changed. The only way to tell what head you have is by the thread count in the head. 9 thread signifies you have the 2004 heads and 4 thread signifies you have the 2003 heads (while nonpainted 2003 heads notes early 2003 heads) Now there is an easy test to see what heads you have seeing as how all of the threads are at the bottom coming up you can perform a simple thread count test. Start from the tight position and count the number of turns it takes to remove the sparkplug 4-5 turns means you have 4 thread and 8-9 turns means you have the 9 thread heads. if you are buying heads keep this in mind or simply contact me to buy new heads 9 thread with the improved passages 1500 a set complete new Good information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRust Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 ford parts online lists the same camshafts as well Camshaft, intake, right - 4.6l dohc - 4.6L DOHC 03-04 $156.65 $120.90 http://www.trademotion.com/_img/view-illustration.jpg http://www.trademotion.com/_img/add-to-cart.gif http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/_img/help.gif Camshaft, intake, left - 4.6l dohc - 4.6L DOHC 03-04 $157.21 $121.32 http://www.trademotion.com/_img/view-illustration.jpg http://www.trademotion.com/_img/add-to-cart.gif http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/_img/help.gif Camshaft, exhaust, right - 4.6l dohc - 4.6L DOHC 00-04 $215.16 $166.05 http://www.trademotion.com/_img/view-illustration.jpg http://www.trademotion.com/_img/add-to-cart.gif http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/_img/help.gif Camshaft, exhaust, left - 4.6l dohc - 4.6L DOHC 00-04 $157.21 $121.32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRust Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 basically saying intake cams were 03/04 specific but exh were the same.... I do know of guys picking up power on the machs from switching to the 01 cobra intake cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I wish I could understand the boost difference and where the cars make their peak power with the stock 3.5" blower pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryscobra Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I know the Machs have 5.4 Nav. cams thats why they make more tq than 99-01 cobras and when I ordered my longtubes for the Mach from Lethal peformance they told me the heads were different that they had different ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 The exhaust cams are different between the Cobra and Machs. They have different flow which should change the boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-n-Columbus Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 The heads and cams are identical. The difference is the weight of the Cobra's forged internals. If the Mach is stick, only the crank is forged. If it's an automatic, none of the internals are forged. The non-forged internals are cast and are much tighter and lighter, reducing the amount of power lost in just moving those parts. The Mach's engine is identical to a stock Marauder's engine, so I have some experience If I have two identical Marauders, one with a stock engine and one with a forged engine (otherwise exactly the same), the forged engine will be 20-30hp less, guaranteed. The benefit is though, the forged engine can take a lot more abuse and make more power at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main3s Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Hummm, very interesting Brian. Any difference that would allow the Mach to breath better would be why the boost is lower but HP is higher. As far as the weight of the forged internals, wouldn't that casue them to make power at different RPMs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Hummm, very interesting Brian. Any difference that would allow the Mach to breath better would be why the boost is lower but HP is higher. As far as the weight of the forged internals, wouldn't that casue them to make power at different RPMs? Agreed. I can see a lighter rotating assembly and increased compression changing the power curve some at higher rpm's What I do not understand is the boost difference if the heads and cams are the same. I also run about 4 degrees less of ignition timing in the mach. 18 degrees in the Mach 22 degrees in the Cobra (At 6000 rpms) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryscobra Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Maybe I am wrong....but from what Brian is explaining I am right. lol i dont know though. I am just going by what people have told me on Mach1registry and lethalperformance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 The heads and cams are identical. The difference is the weight of the Cobra's forged internals. If the Mach is stick, only the crank is forged. If it's an automatic, none of the internals are forged. The non-forged internals are cast and are much tighter and lighter, reducing the amount of power lost in just moving those parts. The Mach's engine is identical to a stock Marauder's engine, so I have some experience If I have two identical Marauders, one with a stock engine and one with a forged engine (otherwise exactly the same), the forged engine will be 20-30hp less, guaranteed. The benefit is though, the forged engine can take a lot more abuse and make more power at the end of the day. Sorry but the first sentence is wrong. I was mistaken when I typed last night. I meant to echo Derek's statement about the intake cams being different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Agreed. I can see a lighter rotating assembly and increased compression changing the power curve some at higher rpm's What I do not understand is the boost difference if the heads and cams are the same. I also run about 4 degrees less of ignition timing in the mach. 18 degrees in the Mach 22 degrees in the Cobra (At 6000 rpms) This info is da troof. The compression ratio and weight should have anything to do with the boost. My thought is that the difference in cams is where much of this is coming from. Look where the boost reference is being taken from on these cars. With increased flow through the combustion chambers, there will not be as much pressure coming from the pressure port on the back of the blower. Brian, do both cars have stock exhaust manifolds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondAddiction Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 From what i've read, the mach1, like mentioned before came with Navigator 5.4 heads on them for more torque, so wouldn't them being for a larger motor have larger ports and able to breath better cause the hp increase with less boost, while the cams being for torque would keep the power curve from shifting higher with the larger ports. would that reasoning be able to explain the power/boost difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirks5oh Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 i didn't read this, but does the mach 1 have longtube headers?? if so, that could easily account for the 2psi difference in boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Pickles are green and Marauders are fun. True story. KillJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRust Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 i didn't read this, but does the mach 1 have longtube headers?? if so, that could easily account for the 2psi difference in boost. the mach 1 has stock manifolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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