wagner Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Front page of CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/18/new.york.doodle.arrest/index.html?hpt=C1 Now this sort of “news” reporting is pretty deceptive at best. My dad is a retired teacher and my mom is has been a Middle School or High School Principal for the past 6 years. This story does not tell the whole truth on the subject at all. Last year my mom had student curb stomp a kid American History X style, assault her, assault another teacher, and then try to kill himself with a bread knife in the school kitchen. Now this kid had been removed from the Akron City School system for violent behavior and sent to her district and the parents (or lack there of) took zero responsibility. So as a parent do you feel zero tolerance policies in schools are good or bad? If your kid does nothing wrong where is the problem? Discuss and keep it intelligent please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Oh and when it comes to kids that are sexual offenders school officals don't get to see their records and have no idea what they have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbutera2112 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 so, did the kid die or did his jaw split or what? always wondered what would happen getting curb stomped ahx style, teeth open on the curb etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 so, did the kid die or did his jaw split or what? always wondered what would happen getting curb stomped ahx style, teeth open on the curb etc The kid got knocked down in the fight and his had was on a stair. The other kid then gave his head a good stomp but his mouth was not on the stair thankfully. I have seen my mom seperate a copule of 200 pound kids trying to fight when I was in school. She has even had to defend herself but that whole issue really shook her up. The crazy thing is the kid's grandma asked my mom if was "ok if he came back to school". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbutera2112 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 oh ok i get it then...im wondering what happens with teeth open, they didnt show it in the movie except that he was dead lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost face Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Not a parent yet, but I do agree with the Zero tolerance policy if it only involves violence or sexual misconduct. But in the news report by CNN goes a little too far. How can a 12 year girl, be handcuffed and sent to juvie just for drawing on the desk? If I was the principle I would have told her just clean that shit off and all the other desks for certain period of time as to teach them a lesson and taking responsibility of their actions. People need to start teaching their kids responsibility and taking ownership of their actions. If you did something wrong fix it, simple as that. BTW that kid who curb stomped, should have been sent to jail or to a mental institution and as for the parents they are idiots and should have never had kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWW$HEEET Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 That story is ridiculous. Fuck those police who even thought to respond to such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Not a parent yet, but I do agree with the Zero tolerance policy if it only involves violence or sexual misconduct. But in the news report by CNN goes a little too far. How can a 12 year girl, be handcuffed and sent to juvie just for drawing on the desk? If I was the principle I would have told her just clean that shit off and all the other desks for certain period of time as to teach them a lesson and taking responsibility of their actions. People need to start teaching their kids responsibility and taking ownership of their actions. If you did something wrong fix it, simple as that. BTW that kid who curb stomped, should have been sent to jail or to a mental institution and as for the parents they are idiots and should have never had kids That kid is in a mental institution now. At his hearing he threatend to kill my mom and had to be put in a straight jacket. Was it a bit to far to cuff the little girl yes BUT there is another issue that comes from that. What the school people have to deal with are the other parrents who say "well you gave so and so special treatment why can't my kid have it?" So everybody has to be treated the same, does it suck yes and that little girl should not have been cuffed. The amount of BS that parents try to pull anymore is scary. Asshole kids have asshole parents and since education is not as imporant as it used to be it is only going to get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbutera2112 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 The amount of BS that parents try to pull anymore is scary. Asshole kids have asshole parents and since education is not as imporant as it used to be it is only going to get worse. youre acting like its bad if a parent sticks up for their kid sometimes the kid is not at fault, rarely but still perfect example, my principal overheard me say something inappropriate, and took me to his office suspended me and called my parents. well my dad came in and we were all sitting there and the principal tells my dad i said something i didnt say...while i agree i was at fault for saying something, the principal was over dramatizing it and putting words into my mouth i told him thats not what i said and he said "i have it written write here on my paper, that means you said it" so i told him "ok well give me your paper and ill write some shit down, does that mean you said it?" my dad backed me up on it and said pretty much the same to the principal not saying your mom is an asshole, but a lot of people who work in schools are...ive dealt with my share... at the same time, i was an asshole to quite a few administrators in school....but you gotta give respect to get respect, and theres no way ill kiss anyones ass that wants to treat me like shit...if a teacher wanted to act like a dick, i treated them like one school officials arent right 100% of the time, shit happens...the girl should not have gotten arested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmy43016 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I have seen a curb stomp happen. It was disturbung to say the least. Most of his teeth were shattered, his gums looked like jello as they were just destroyed, jaw was broken and hanging to one side, and the corners of his mought ripped. It was not cool at all considering the stomper was a 245 pound man. It was not cool at all. Kids seemingly can do what ever they want without reprocussion anymore. I say that while reading the article because news only likes to report things like this. A no tolerance policy is a tough thing. If they didnt follow through with a no tolerance policy...then it wouldnt be a no tolerance policy. At what point do you regulate a no tolerance policy? Run it like a court in saying misdemanor 1-5? This action is considered a M2 and warrants X punishment? That sounds like a more viable option than just straight out arresting a kid for doodling on her desk. That being said I understand why the school did what they in and in the context that they did it, but they just did not think things through when setting up the policy enough in my opinion. Sounds like they are treating all situations fairly, but they are not treating the action justly. That could have just warranted a saturday school or scare her with an in school suspension. People are scared to even look at kids the wrong way now because no consequences are in place anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmy43016 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 kids are products of society now. They are no longer engrained with respect for their elders. All started going downhill at gen X. When people say the teacher was acting like a dick so i treated him like a dick...thats kind of rediculous. I used to be in the marines...they yelled at you whether you did something right or wrong, didnt matter you just got yelled at. As a recruit you dont see the value in it. As a higher rank you understand why it was the way it was. Teaches you respect... Im not saying that i totally condone teachers actions or attitude, but it is the way it is and whether a kid sees it or not they are teaching you with attitude as much as they are teaching you with books. Who cares if a teacher gives you attitude...control your emotions and just say OK and move on. If you acted like a dick to your boss because he acted like a dick to you...have fun looking for new jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 kids are products of society now. They are no longer engrained with respect for their elders. All started going downhill at gen X. When people say the teacher was acting like a dick so i treated him like a dick...thats kind of rediculous. I used to be in the marines...they yelled at you whether you did something right or wrong, didnt matter you just got yelled at. As a recruit you dont see the value in it. As a higher rank you understand why it was the way it was. Teaches you respect... Im not saying that i totally condone teachers actions or attitude, but it is the way it is and whether a kid sees it or not they are teaching you with attitude as much as they are teaching you with books. Who cares if a teacher gives you attitude...control your emotions and just say OK and move on. If you acted like a dick to your boss because he acted like a dick to you...have fun looking for new jobs. Teachers and cops have something in common, they have to deal with assholes a whole lot. You are 100% right kids and parents now think they have the right to challenge teaches and school officials at will. A lot of my family is in the education profession and it is all the same. Kid acts up no matter how small, parent comes in and their kid can do no wrong. There is nothing wrong for parents sticking up for kids if needed, but if you act up enough have dicipline brought up from the school than there is an issue. Schools are under crazy amounts of pressue. Less money, more standards, and even more issues from the kids. Nobody wants to be the bad guy they just want it fixed. It is even worse because the kids KNOW they won't get in a lot of trouble at home, they will get slap on the hand from the law so where is the fear. My unlce that is principal at Bucyrus had a kid pull a knife on him in his office and say "what are going to do about this?" His response "beat your ass" and mind you he looks like unlce fester and is 6'2" about 265. Kid backed down but then said "my dad will have your job". Parents need to stick up less for their kids and actually raise them to not be assholes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmy43016 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Parents need to stick up less for their kids and actually raise them to not be assholes. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBMW Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 That is such bullshit. Have some common sense. The principal looks like a giant douche right now for being a prick. There is a slight difference between doodling on a desk and spray painting a wall. -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost face Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 School suspension is the worst idea ever. Think about this for a second. kids who act up in school, probably doesn't want to be in school in the first place and to tell those kids you cannot come to school because of certain behavior is reinforcing their bad behavior. I honestly think they should be at school forced to do extra work instead of being at home and dealing with their irresponsible parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtschulze Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Destruction of school property < Violence. Violence in any form is unacceptable. Every place of employment has work place violence prevention. They will and I have fired people (normally both parties) for even suggesting that their might be an issue. The sooner kids learn that the better off they are. Now for the learning part..... Parental Involvement. Plain and simple. Good parents set boundaries for their children. Remember back in the day....you didn't fear the teacher (ok maybe the wrestling coach / teacher) but you feared going home the most. My dad would light me up. My children say and do things that make me cringe but they also know where the line is drawn. Be involved and stay involved. If my kids hate me.....I've done my job as a parent. You can't be their Facebook friend and their parent. Oh sure...some kids are mature beyond their years but for the vast majority, they simply needed rules, guidelines and ENFORCEMENT. And by enforcement...I mean take away their beloved item or spank their a$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Destruction of school property < Violence. Violence in any form is unacceptable. Every place of employment has work place violence prevention. They will and I have fired people (normally both parties) for even suggesting that their might be an issue. The sooner kids learn that the better off they are. Now for the learning part..... Parental Involvement. Plain and simple. Good parents set boundaries for their children. Remember back in the day....you didn't fear the teacher (ok maybe the wrestling coach / teacher) but you feared going home the most. My dad would light me up. My children say and do things that make me cringe but they also know where the line is drawn. Be involved and stay involved. If my kids hate me.....I've done my job as a parent. You can't be their Facebook friend and their parent. Oh sure...some kids are mature beyond their years but for the vast majority, they simply needed rules, guidelines and ENFORCEMENT. And by enforcement...I mean take away their beloved item or spank their a$$. You my friend should have kids one day that will make you very proud. That is how I was raised and both my parents were teachers in the school I went to. So it was even worse when I got in trouble. I acted out as a kid and the principal called my mom during school. My mom told him to beat my ass so he did. When I got home I got it again and I learned break the rules bad things happen. If you kids respect authority they have a better chance of being well adjusted adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiacfreak142 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 ghost, i completely agree, out of school suspensions had to be one the dumbest ideas ever. I agree that kids anymore are just to out of control some times (and yea thats mostly due to the parents). But at the same time, im kinda in the same boat as tyler. I mean have nothing but respect for some one that cna put up with all that BS from those kids every day, i sure as hell couldnt do it. like tyler said though, ive also seen my fair share of ass hole admins. Hell i got an out of school because the principal was out side (i was inside with about 20 other people right around me) and heard the word FUCK and lookeded and saw my mouth moving, so appearantly i said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragknee66 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Dont even get me started on kids and the lack of respect they have for things/people these days. One of our officers caught a kid (way under 18) driving a stolen car about a month ago, right after he had freshly stolen it from a driveway, and stopped him.. Long story short after the arrest and calling the parents they came in and the only thing they were concerned with was "well why did you stop him????". Really? Only one of many stories of failed parenthood I can start to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 School suspension is the worst idea ever. Think about this for a second. kids who act up in school, probably doesn't want to be in school in the first place and to tell those kids you cannot come to school because of certain behavior is reinforcing their bad behavior. I honestly think they should be at school forced to do extra work instead of being at home and dealing with their irresponsible parents. ghost, i completely agree, out of school suspensions had to be one the dumbest ideas ever. I agree that kids anymore are just to out of control some times (and yea thats mostly due to the parents). But at the same time, im kinda in the same boat as tyler. I mean have nothing but respect for some one that cna put up with all that BS from those kids every day, i sure as hell couldnt do it. like tyler said though, ive also seen my fair share of ass hole admins. Hell i got an out of school because the principal was out side (i was inside with about 20 other people right around me) and heard the word FUCK and lookeded and saw my mouth moving, so appearantly i said it. Sometimes there is really nothing you can do with a kid. I came back and sat with my dad one saturday when he was running the In School Suspension and it was a mess. Kids complaining they could not sleep and it was "stupid" they had to do school work. I mean really? Yes admins are going to have to be the bad guys that is life same things cops have to deal with . Will they be wrong sometimes, hell yes they will. The alternitve is for them to be lax and then guess what? You are now in a situation where the inmates are running the prision and the problem students will grow in numbers. I saw all of this bullshit type stuff from kids and parents growing up and then when I went to college. That is why I did not go into teaching the parents would have hated me so much. The stuff my mom tells me is shocking and makes me sad since this what our country has fallen to. Oh and don't even get me started on "sexting" in schools. Kids these days and the pictures they send to each other is so dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDHG940 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 That story is ridiculous. Fuck those police who even thought to respond to such a thing. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 The pussification of America, lack of discipline, zero-tolerance, and the "it's not my responsibility" mentality are the pitfall of modern society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmy43016 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 That is such bullshit. Have some common sense. The principal looks like a giant douche right now for being a prick. There is a slight difference between doodling on a desk and spray painting a wall. -Marc Is there really??? destruction of property is destruction of property no matter how big or how small. I understand what you are saying and why you are saying it...but a no tolerance policy is a no tolerance policy. If that no tolerance policy says that the police will be called for vandalism or destruction of school property then the police were called no matter how little. If you start to bend the rules you put in place because of something minor, but it is still destruction no matter you look at it and he was in the right regardless of how retarded it may be. The second you start to fold on a tough rule you put in place then kids will test that boundry every chance they get and site this as an example of prefferential treatment should another student doodle and not get busted like this girl. If this place was like a wealthy burb school that could afford a new desk no problem or if it is a school that has had all after school activities cut including music programs because they can barely afford to pay for school books let alone a new desk due to budget cuts...then rules may vary. There are a lot of factors we DONT know in this case. What is the actual policy and documented consequences?? I may not condone the specific consequence in this case, but rules are rules and when you live in a volitile place and times like these...you have to stand firm. I am sure the principal feels crappy, but he has to stick to his guns. We have no clue what kind of school it is or what kind of students go there...we know nothing and to say he is a complete ass is ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main3s Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 It's not the schools job to raise your children. You send them there to "learn" but teaching them how to act and be respectful/ responcible is the parents job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 zero tolerance is stupid. IF I ever have kids, they will go to the most rural schools I can find to get away as much as possible from all the stupid shit going on in city schools. Kid draws on a desk? Make them clean that shit off, having them arrested so they have a record isn't going to help them through life, its just going to make shit harder and push them further towards the wrong side of things later on when they can't get a job because of something stupid. If a kid wants to be involved in gang fights or deal drugs then sure, throw them in a cell, but otherwise let kids be kids. I graduated in 01, which wasn't all that long ago, and back then my teacher's turned a blind eye to kids dipping in class, knives clipped to pockets, whatever. I remember a couple kids telling the teacher they needed to go to the bathroom to smoke, and the teacher said "don't get caught." But nobody ever fought, everyone was cool, and if there were any drugs going through that school I certainly didn't know about it. They treated us like people, and we respected them more for it. We had our fun, but weren't overly destructive with it. You send a kid to a school that has metal detectors, and ID's, and cops with big mean looking drug dogs, and you get ARRESTED for doing anything at all, it's going to feel more like a prison, and the kids are going to start acting more like prisoners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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