Marine Survives Two Tours in Iraq, SWAT Kills Him

[mseebs]

Story just doesn't make sense to me.

 

While SWAT isn't no uber amazing bad ass unit. They are highly trained and one of the things they're trained for is not shooting unless absolutely necessary. One gun shot should of not made the team unload into a house. Especially a house where they are unaware of the current occupants.

 

I would think with a gunshot they would have backed up and phoned into the house and attempted to resolve the situation that way. Or they would have flash banged and entered. They should not have just unloaded into the house.

 

So either, there is actually more to this story.

 

Or Arizona fucking sucks at training SWAT officers.

 

And for the record, the Osama reference was fucking retarded.

[unfunnyryan]

HELMET CAM VIDEO

Ok its not front line action, but you can see they just go from knocking to shooting in a matter of seconds. Fuck. That.

 

http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/26/video-of-the-pima-county-swat-raid/

[Drak03]

somebody knew something that someoen important didnt want him to know

[Scotty2Hotty]

After seeing these amateurs in action it looks pretty clear. So the initial entry team didn't even step foot into the house, but decided the fatal funnel door way was a great way to start opening fire on this guy. But it seems everybody there had to take some more shots at the suspect. Disgusting misuse of force. How the hell did they know he wasn't surrendering his weapon? They didn't step but one foot into that door way before opening fire. Bunch of posers trying to play Billy badass. I hope this footage gets their asses canned or better yet, criminal charges.

[mseebs]

i'll play devil's advocate here.

 

many people mentioned that when the swat team was there they had many squad cars and swat trucks all with lights on surrounding the place. enough that if you just glanced at your window you'd see the blue and red.

 

i know whenever a cop passes by with lights on half my apartment lights up.

 

so why would you grab an assault rifle and stand near the door?

 

but i still think theirs 'more' to this. the wife had also stated that her husband was pointing his gun at the officers which could be why he shot.

 

regardless, i stand by my initial assessment that Arizona SWAT sucks.

[sol740]

I generally try to defend law enforcement, but that video makes it difficult. I think Scott describes it better than I could. They just seemed a little too eager to saturate the area with bullets.

[Guest Hal]

Were these guys even SWAT? They looked like complete amateurs.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Little boys taking daddy's clothes to play dress up. The video is a bit on the fishy side to say the least. Door gets opened, but the initial entry man took his sweet ass time pushing into the objective. They congregate at the door opening and start opening fire. The camera is put down after the one sided exchange. No trained person in an operation such as this, would dare stay in the opening of the door any longer than he should. The window will more than likely win in court and rightfully so.

[BigOxley]

looks like he was a suspect

 

By Fernanda Echavarri

Arizona Daily Star

 

PIMA COUNTY, Ariz. - The man shot and killed by SWAT officers, as well as his brother and another man, were listed as suspects in a complex drug investigation being conducted by the Sheriff's Department, according to documents released Thursday.

 

That investigation was the reason heavily armed SWAT officers went to Jose Guerena's house to serve a search warrant that ended in his fatal shooting May 5, reports show.

 

More than 500 pages of officers' statements, evidence lists and witness interviews were released by the Pima County Sheriff's Department. Also released were audiotapes from the shooting scene, radio transmissions and other communications made by law enforcement personnel during the serving of search warrants on four homes on the southwest side.

 

A short video showing Pima County Regional SWAT team members serving the warrant was also released. The written documents detail what sheriff's personnel did during the incident.

 

Audiotapes reveal that no SWAT officers entered Guerena's house. Law enforcement officers went into his home only after a robot was sent in and it was determined about an hour after the shooting that Guerena, a former Marine, was dead.

 

 

full article - http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_ffd3cd6b-6564-59a9-8b43-a1635ae66bd4.html

[unfunnyryan]

Law enforcement officers went into his home only after a robot was sent in and it was determined about an hour after the shooting that Guerena, a former Marine, was dead.

 

Well no fucking shit if you shoot a man 60 times he's going to be dead, its a miracle no one else was.

[BigOxley]

sounds like a good shooters to me, 60 hits out of 71 shots. can't view the video, how many officers were shooting?

[87GT]

I don't care he was a suspect and even had illegal stuff in his home. They fired way too many shots for just being by the door for being SWAT officers. They have had plenty of training to become what they are so they have no excuse.

[Scotty2Hotty]

sounds like a good shooters to me, 60 hits out of 71 shots. can't view the video, how many officers were shooting?

 

Not good shooting when you're firing on a dead body. My 2 year old niece could do that. There were about 4 give or take in the entry of the door emptying their weapons.

[BigOxley]

I don't care he was a suspect and even had illegal stuff in his home. They fired way too many shots for just being by the door for being SWAT officers. They have had plenty of training to become what they are so they have no excuse.

 

what is the appropriate number of shots fired when you have a gun pointed at you?

[87GT]

what is the appropriate number of shots fired when you have a gun pointed at you?

 

None until you are fired at. Then a small group of 2-3 rounds in central mass. Then confirm the hit or kill before shooting again. Spraying and praying is only for noobs that play counterstrike for the first time :dumb:

[BigOxley]

i'm not trying to be difficult, but you can't put yourself in the position of the swat team without being at that exact incident.

 

you can't be rely on your team to make the shot for you. you hesitate for a second and you or your buddy is dead. yes, 60 shots does seem excessive. but firing from upwards of 4 weapons. less than 20 shots per weapon. and maybe there was a fifth weapon, goes down to 12 shots. make the scenario one on one. the swat officer probably would shoot more than 12 rounds or 20 rounds. if it was me and i had a 30 round magazine, i'd use all 30 rounds. you shoot until the threat is stopped. 2 to the chest, 1 to the head is nice in theory. many, many people shot in the chest don't go down. a head shot is difficult to make in a stressful situation.

 

it sounds like they knew they were going to go into a gunfight. maybe why they hesitated at the door. it sounds like this was a "good shoot" to me, and i bet those swat guys would do it the same way over again.

[Guest Hal]

i'm not trying to be difficult, but you can't put yourself in the position of the swat team without being at that exact incident.

 

you can't be rely on your team to make the shot for you. you hesitate for a second and you or your buddy is dead. yes, 60 shots does seem excessive. but firing from upwards of 4 weapons. less than 20 shots per weapon. and maybe there was a fifth weapon, goes down to 12 shots. make the scenario one on one. the swat officer probably would shoot more than 12 rounds or 20 rounds. if it was me and i had a 30 round magazine, i'd use all 30 rounds. you shoot until the threat is stopped. 2 to the chest, 1 to the head is nice in theory. many, many people shot in the chest don't go down. a head shot is difficult to make in a stressful situation.

 

it sounds like they knew they were going to go into a gunfight. maybe why they hesitated at the door. it sounds like this was a "good shoot" to me, and i bet those swat guys would do it the same way over again.

There is zero reason to fire 12 shots per person as you lazily enter a house. Do you have a clue what you're talking about?

[BigOxley]

There is zero reason to fire 12 shots per person as you lazily enter a house. Do you have a clue what you're talking about?

 

yes.

[Scotty2Hotty]

i'm not trying to be difficult, but you can't put yourself in the position of the swat team without being at that exact incident.

 

 

I sure as hell have, and a lot worse. I didn't empty a fucking magazine into someone when I was presented that situation. It actually only took a 00 buck shot round, and no more to neutralize the situation that had presented itself. This is America, and not foreign soil. If Law Enforcement decides to disobey the law they are sworn to protect, and conduct themselves in this fashion, there will be more than a backlash upon them. Your badge doesn't put you above the Law by any means. I've never seen 71 rounds fired at one person, but then again, we knew what we were doing.

[greg1647545532]

I usually stand behind law enforcement in these cases, but increasingly there's video evidence that makes it hard to do so. This is one of those cases, even though the real crime here, IMO, is the dumbass system that sends swat teams to people's houses over stupid shit. Two things stand out to me:

 

1) People get so invested in this "cops have a stressful job and can do no wrong" mentality that they can't change their tune in the face of convincing video evidence, and

 

2) People get so invested in this "guns make the bad guys go away" mentality that they support retarded self-defense strategies.

 

In support of point 2, I wonder -- what's the self-defense value in standing at a doorway, crowding your way into the line of fire, emptying your weapon? At a minimum, 2 of those guys should have pulled the fuck back. It's like, "What's that guys? He's got an assault rifle? Lemme see, lemme see! Let's present 4 targets instead of 1!" Realistically, 0 of them entered the house, so if the guy inside was so goddamn threatening, back off and lob in some tear gas or something. Seriously.

 

Squeezing the trigger until it goes "click click click" is not always the best way of extricating yourself from harms way. Especially if you're intentionally putting yourself in harms way to serve a warrant. The swat team completely controlled the situation there. The fact that they had to "shoot their way out" of the front door jamb speaks volumes about their planning.

[Scotty2Hotty]

They let their fear and adrenaline get the best of them. Itchy finger amateurs have no place in that line of work.