Flush Mount Signals & running lights.

[chrisknight]

I have 2 different sets of flush mount front turn signals.

1 set I would consider cheap and just have a 2x sided sticker that holds it to the lower fairing on the R6.

The 2nd set are more expensive and have a threaded post through the fairing with a big nut on the back.

The problem is that neither set of LED flush mounts have an orange (or any) "running light" when the signals are not in use. They are dark (not lit) until you hit the blinker.

The factory lights stay lit solid orange all the time until you hit the signal, then they are always on but flash brighter.

Do they make LED flush mounts that stay on as running lights like the factory light?

Thanks,

Chris

[luvkawzx6-R]

^^^I had the same issue when i bought a set of aftermarket turn signals for my zx-6. The wiring was a little different and the only way i could get them to work is turn signal only, no running light. Is your wiring the same as stock lights?

[12oclocker]

I have 2 different sets of flush mount front turn signals.

1 set I would consider cheap and just have a 2x sided sticker that holds it to the lower fairing on the R6.

The 2nd set are more expensive and have a threaded post through the fairing with a big nut on the back.

The problem is that neither set of LED flush mounts have an orange (or any) "running light" when the signals are not in use. They are dark (not lit) until you hit the blinker.

The factory lights stay lit solid orange all the time until you hit the signal, then they are always on but flash brighter.

Do they make LED flush mounts that stay on as running lights like the factory light?

Thanks,

Chris

I am so glad you asked this question, I just designed something that lets aftermarket LED turn signals also operate as running lights, I will post the schematic in just a minute....

Edited March 21, 2009 by 12oclocker

[12oclocker]

OK, here is the schematic, a trip to radioshack and 10 bucks is about all it takes to make this, if you don't think you can make this yourself, I will build it for you for 10 bucks. all you need is heatshrink tubing, 2 pnp transistors, 4 diodes, and 2 resistors. note this will ONLY work on LED turn signals!

Your LED turn signals will remain on as running lights, and will flash on and off when the turn signal activates.

Edited March 21, 2009 by 12oclocker

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

OK, here is the schematic, a trip to radioshack and 10 bucks is about all it takes to make this, if you don't think you can make this yourself, I will build it for you for 10 bucks. all you need is heatshrink tubing, 2 pnp transistors, 4 diodes, and 2 resistors. note this will ONLY work on LED turn signals!

Your LED turn signals will remain on as running lights, and will flash on and off when the turn signal activates.

i hate u and all ur smarty pants talk.. haha u truly are smart as hell

[ReconRat]

OK, here is the schematic, a trip to radioshack and 10 bucks is about all it takes to make this, if you don't think you can make this yourself, I will build it for you for 10 bucks. all you need is heatshrink tubing, 2 pnp transistors, 4 diodes, and 2 resistors. note this will ONLY work on LED turn signals!

Your LED turn signals will remain on as running lights, and will flash on and off when the turn signal activates.

Rep for you, well done.

I can gut dead equipment at work and built that one.

I might need it, I'm thinking of adding or switching to LEDs for turn signal/running lights.

[12oclocker]

i hate u and all ur smarty pants talk.. haha u truly are smart as hell

lol, thanks

Rep for you, well done.

I can gut dead equipment at work and built that one.

I might need it, I'm thinking of adding or switching to LEDs for turn signal/running lights.

thanks, any switching or rectifier diode rated for 200mA will work, same with the transistor, if its rated for 200mA it will work. I've never seen a LED turn signal draw more than around 100mA maybe 150mA at most for the ones with like 18 led's in them. If you are going to add load resistors, let me know, I have a design that I made that incorperates load resistors as well. in all honestly 100mA rated parts would most likey work fine, my LED turn signals only draw 70mA at full brightness.

[cmoosego]

lol, thanks

thanks, any switching or rectifier diode rated for 200mA will work, same with the transistor, if its rated for 200mA it will work. I've never seen a LED turn signal draw more than around 100mA maybe 150mA at most for the ones with like 18 led's in them. If you are going to add load resistors, let me know, I have a design that I made that incorperates load resistors as well. in all honestly 100mA rated parts would most likey work fine, my LED turn signals only draw 70mA at full brightness.

dude you got mad motorcycle skills all over the damn place.... more rep for you mister!!

[Lamar Vannoy]

I have a similar setup, the bike cuts power to a sides running light when the turn is on so it works pretty well w/ just two diodes.

[12oclocker]

I have a similar setup, the bike cuts power to a sides running light when the turn is on so it works pretty well w/ just two diodes.

I am not aware of a safe way to do that with just 2 diodes, unless you are using LED load resistors, or unless your turn signal flasher flip flops the output from pos to neg, which I have never seen before, if your using load resistors the schematic would look like this (this diode must be a 1A rectifier diode)...

this ckt will draw 280mA 3.92watt, close enough to a 5watt bulb to keep the signals flashing slow, personally I like the faster flashing signals, it gets peoples attention.

note this design will run the LED lights slightly dimer than they normally would be because of the load resistor in series.

if you want full brighness running lights, with flashing turn signals, here is the schematic...

here's another design which has the LED lights run dimmer for running lights, and the LED signals flash brigher for turn signals, the resistor value is dependent on the amount of current your LED signals draw, if your signals are too dim, decrease the resistor value, if they are not dim enough, increase the resistor value...

thanks cmoosego

Edited March 22, 2009 by 12oclocker

[chrisknight]

I never thought of building something... I just expect manufacturers to think of these things on their own...

Correct me if I'm wrong... I might not be thinking about this correctly...

It seems as though your using the transistor as an isolation gate similar to this timer circuit I just did for my old boss...

The gate is open until the trigger (pin 3 from 555 chip) has voltage.

So, by that design, it seems as though the lights would still be off until you triggered the transistor.

That makes it operate just as it did originally, but you've isolated the bikes circuitry.

I'll have to stare at it a bit more...

I understand this:

I dont get this:

How can you send voltage from the bike running lights wire, through the transistor without voltage also on your Base (turnsignal not activated)?

Whats wrong with this?

Or a resistor pre-diode on running lights lead for a dimmer running light...

Like This:

Edited March 22, 2009 by chrisknight

[chrisknight]

I passed right over this design without letting it register:

Which is similar in concept to my idea.

Are you worried though of back voltage (with no diode) on the running light lead?

Thanks,

Chris

Edited March 22, 2009 by chrisknight

[12oclocker]

I passed right over this design without letting it register:

Which is similar in concept to my idea.

Are you worried though of back voltage (with no diode) on the running light lead?

Thanks,

Chris

no because the running lights are 14v out from the regulator, turn signal goes from regulator to flasher unit, so sending pos voltage to the secondary of the flasher may be bad, but to the running lights will not do anything, at least on my bikes it has not, your just shorting positive to positive. If your worried you could add a diode coming from the running lights as well, but I would say most applications, if not all, would not require it.

I'm using the transistor to invert the flasher signal, here is how it works....

the PNP transistor is Always On, because is has 13.5v on the Emitter, and will draw the necessary forward bias current through the 1K resistor and 50ohm resistors, it could be 1.2k total, or just 1k, it does not matter too much, we are running the transistor in full saturation mode so we have some give.

when the turn signal output goes on (13.5v positive) it actually switches the PNP transistor OFF (because the base and emitter voltages will be equal, even running through the 1K resistor, since the base requires neg potential to draw current), this makes the LED turn signal light turn OFF with each ON cycle of the turn signal. The diodes must both be of equal value, and they also prevent backfeeding, the reason you MUST have two diodes is because when the Running lights AND the Turn signal are both Positive, the positive voltage potential at the Base and Emitter of the transistor must be equal in order to switch the transistor OFF. if you omit the Running light diode, the transistor will never switch off, and the ckt will not work, hence why it is also used on the running light lead.

On your 555 timer circuit, you may be oversaturating your transistor with a 100ohm resistor, you may want to use a lower value, also once you do you should be able to omit the 47K resistor, and you can omit the .01uF capacitor from the design. I am assuming your using a 200 to 300mA TO-92 switching transistor, and not a TO-3 or TO-220 transistor.

This will not work because the LED signal is already on, the flasher sending positive voltage to it again will not do anything, because its already on.

Edited March 23, 2009 by 12oclocker

[chrisknight]

Oh, Your blinking the light totally off. I see.

I was thinking about that kind of backwards

For some reason, I was expecting running light 100% of the time, & blinker brighter when on, like this:

Although, I am paranoid, so I'll probably do this with a smaller value resistor:

1: because I am worried about protecting the bike side of the circuit, & 2: because Its legal.

Inverting the flasher is a good Idea. But, you loose your marker/running lights during your flasher "on" time.

The 555 circuit used a 2907. I'm not too worried about it...

This:

Was more of a lead in to this:

I realize that the turn signal would be brighter than the running light because of the resistor on running light holding it back.

[12oclocker]

cool, once you have your resistor value dialed in your good to go, the only problem with that design is the resistor value is dependent on the luminous intensity and current the LED's draw, hence it would be different for different types of LED signals.

I've always liked my flasher turning completely off and on, but I guess everyone has their own taste, good luck with the project.

[Lamar Vannoy]

This is exactly what I was talking about and have done it on two bikes. The F4i turns off the running light on the side that is flashing so it works perfectly with two wire LED's or a one filament bulb.

[chrisknight]

This is exactly what I was talking about and have done it on two bikes. The F4i turns off the running light on the side that is flashing so it works perfectly with two wire LED's or a one filament bulb.

I cant see how that would turn the light off when the flasher is on.

I can see it making it brighter if the +V of the flasher lead is higher than the running light lead.

Unless you mean to say that the bikes circuitry switches power off on the running light/wire, and then on to the flasher, in which case I don't see the need for diodes at all.

Its probably me not understanding the situation again...

[chrisknight]

cool, once you have your resistor value dialed in your good to go, the only problem with that design is the resistor value is dependent on the luminous intensity and current the LED's draw, hence it would be different for different types of LED signals.

I've always liked my flasher turning completely off and on, but I guess everyone has their own taste, good luck with the project.

I'll probably start with 100 Ohm, then work up. Is that what you would do?

Thanks,

Chris

[Lamar Vannoy]

Unless you mean to say that the bikes circuitry switches power off on the running light/wire, and then on to the flasher, in which case I don't see the need for diodes at all.

Its probably me not understanding the situation again...

Yes, it cuts the running light. The diodes prevent the running light from going back up the turn wire and lighting the indicator on the gauges.

[12oclocker]

I'll probably start with 100 Ohm, then work up. Is that what you would do?

Thanks,

Chris

probably the same...

The F4i turns off the running light on the side that is flashing

ah ok, that makes sense, I've never owned a bike that was wired like that.

[chrisknight]

Yes, it cuts the running light. The diodes prevent the running light from going back up the turn wire and lighting the indicator on the gauges.

Ah, I see...