JuicedH22 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Everyone who is a consumer of goods/services PAYS TAX. Clearly, we are talking income tax.... You are either lying or ignorant. Your big "PAY NO TAX AT ALL" capitalization doesn't make it true. http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/09/18/breakdown3-06-17-11-01_custom-a75c8687649851cb34253472a5005ecb6a99a436-s3.jpg As a self-employed individual, I'd love for you to tell me that payroll tax is "NO TAX AT ALL" again. You seem upset that we have a progressive taxation system. What do you propose as the alternative? I do hope you realize that, while you deride "liberals" for the postion of the 46.2%, republican decreases of taxes over the last 40 years might have a little to do with it... Didnt take you long to start tossing out insults... I am not upset at all a progressive taxation system, Its more upsetting that the vast majority of americans dont understand that, or the term itself. In fact they would look you blank in the face when you say "progressive taxation". It is much easier to hear a liberal say "the rich need to pay more taxes, the burden is on hte middle class!" like the top 5% of americans get away with not paying taxes.... On the amount of taxation, and my point (keep in mind I said 'nearly' no tax at all) as I referenced they cover only 3% of the tax burden which to me is a very small number. And the salary is less than $33k, NOT $50k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think the reality is, the "47%" you think he was referencing is different than the "47%" I think he was referencing. I am saying he was referencing the near 50% of americans in the lower half of the taxpayer income level.... You think he was talking about hte 50% who dont pay "income tax"... You see the difference? And how you can build an argument depending on how you infer what he was saying? That is my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Don't mind that, my 2 year old was on my lap yelling about elephants. He was the source of the frustration, you were recipient. So we agree that the 47% does pay taxes in the form of payroll tax, sales tax, excise tax, etc. So what happens when we look at those remaining taxes as a function of overall income. As a percentage of burden it is exponentially greater than middle and top earners. Even when you add in federal income tax the percentage of burden is disproportional. The point of the progressive tax system is to even that out a bit. How do you suggest we remedy your concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 No, they cant... dont say stupid shit. http://presidentelect.org/art_evpvdisagree.html Not like I was talking out of my ass. This site lists 3 times in history that popular vote did not win. It also lists reasons why the electoral college shouldn't be blamed, but it has happened. So to say they cannot go against popular vote is false, though they are not supposed to go against popular vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Don't mind that, my 2 year old was on my lap yelling about elephants. He was the source of the frustration, you were recipient. Lolz, that is funny to me for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Lolz, that is funny to me for some reason. It's funnier when he pronounces it "elmoments". Since, in his world, on the evolutionary chart everything started with Elmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 It's funnier when he pronounces it "elmoments". Since, in his world, on the evolutionary chart everything started with Elmo. I called a contractor at work the other day and they had at least 1 screaming kid and 2 barking dogs in the background. They applogized, I just kept laughing and told them to just answer my e-mail since they were busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 debate over for me now, just had a "fire alarm" assignment dropped in my lap.... bye bye CR (didnt want to look like I was ignoring you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Oh, before I go, I was planning on using these, with some points around htem, but I will just "leave them here" for now, haha. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/fredgraph.png?height=480&width=800&id=UEMPMEAN&scale=Left&range=Max&cosd=1948-01-01&coed=2012-08-01&line_color=%230000ff&link_values=false&line_style=Solid&mark_type=NONE&mw=4&lw=1&ost=-99999&oet=99999&mma=0&fml=a&fq=Monthly&fam=avg&fgst=lin&transformation=lin&vintage_date=2012-09-10&revision_date=2012-09-10 http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/labor-force-participation-rate-chart-apr-2012.jpg http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/foodstamp.jpg http://www.pgm-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/US-National-Debt-Chart-2012_LG-530x800.jpeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I called a contractor at work the other day and they had at least 1 screaming kid and 2 barking dogs in the background. They applogized, I just kept laughing and told them to just answer my e-mail since they were busy. He's only allowed to barge in here when I'm arguing with you fuckers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think the reality is, the "47%" you think he was referencing is different than the "47%" I think he was referencing. I am saying he was referencing the near 50% of americans in the lower half of the taxpayer income level.... You think he was talking about hte 50% who dont pay "income tax"... You see the difference? And how you can build an argument depending on how you infer what he was saying? That is my point. Right, you are arguing based on what you feel he said. I am arguing against the words and references he used. This is a chart that shows that the lower half of the taxpayer income level is not the same as those who don't pay income taxes. http://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2012/09/pm-incometax/gr-pm-incometaxbreakdown-462.gif So you are saying you aren't arguing against those who don't pay income taxes, just poor people in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Right, you are arguing based on what you feel he said. I am arguing against the words and references he used. No, I am 'arguing' the 47% he was talking about, also based on words and references he used, is DIFFERENT than the 47% of that you FEEL he was talking about also based on words and references. The bottom line is, the people I am 95% sure he WAS talking about, is NOT the group you referenced, but the group I referenced... it makes more sense that way, based on the subject. This is a chart that shows that the lower half of the taxpayer income level is not the same as those who don't pay income taxes. That is precisely what i am saying... and I am saying he was referencing hte former, not the latter. So you are saying you aren't arguing against those who don't pay income taxes, just poor people in general? No, I am not arguing against poor people.... You are doing the typical partisan thing of twisting words. Dont. I am saying that Mitt was suggesting to his audience that the 50% of americans that make up 2.7% of the overall Tax Burden, and live off of goverment funded programs like WELFARE are not his priority, that he is focused on the 50% of Americans that comprise 97.3% of our overall Tax burden. That HE can't convince them that his fiscal policy can make their lives better by reducing taxes, because they pay so little as it is. And by 'entitlements' I am willing to bet he was referring to welfare programs... not retirees and the elderly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pomade Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I heard the clip, and I'm fairly sure he said "47 percent" and then also said something to the effect of, "I don't care about them." No matter how you spin it, that just sounds bad, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I heard the clip, and I'm fairly sure he said "47 percent" and then also said something to the effect of, "I don't care about them." No matter how you spin it, that just sounds bad, don't you think? He also said he believed that they felt like they are victims; poor form. I dislike the poor more than most; what with the foul odor, the grammatical incompetence, the shifty eyes... the excessive mid-section skin, that greasy hair, and paltry grasp of any narrative more elaborate than the plot of Honey Boo Boo Child. I'd at least have the sense to suppress those feelings if I ever ran for office. I feel dirty just talking about them.... I'll need a shower before heading to the Country Club for dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I heard the clip, and I'm fairly sure he said "47 percent" and then also said something to the effect of, "I don't care about them." No matter how you spin it, that just sounds bad, don't you think? This is why I asked Tim if the "47%" would vote for him. You can post all the graphs in the world, its not going to change the fact that he committed political suicide. Fox has already tried to spin it 5000 different ways.. my favorite being he said it because he knows how important the latino population is. You cant fault the democrats for running with it. He handed them a loaded gun and put a bullseye on his back. For the record I hate politics. With CR its one of the only ways to have intelligent conversations so I put my toe in to test the water from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I heard the clip, and I'm fairly sure he said "47 percent" and then also said something to the effect of, "I don't care about them." No matter how you spin it, that just sounds bad, don't you think? I completely agree, and said as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 What would be Romneys best move politically to have those on the edge get or regain confidence in him?? How does he get the female vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Fox has already tried to spin it 5000 different ways.. my favorite being he said it because he knows how important the latino population is. I dont watch Fox news, that is hilarious though. :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I dont watch Fox news, that is hilarious though. :lolguy: Right lol. Looking deeper into things hes not against abortion for rape victims. What he said on that tape is a view shared by most hard working Americans (he just had horrible positioning), and he is good at what he does. The democrats have done a great job of going after heartstrings. People say its only perception but to many people perception is reality. Is it too late for him at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurkvinny Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I can't believe the time and effort being spent on debating something a presidential contender said (something I firmly believe has been blown completely out of proportion), instead of discussing what the sitting president has actually (not) done. Worse, I can't believe the millions spent by Obama to showcase "47%" in his ads instead of displaying his own accomplishments. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossle Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I'm in late, but a couple brief thoughts of mine are as follows. Obama seemed to have a lot of "ums" going on in his remarks which to me, does not show a whole lot of confidence in what you are saying and makes it seem like you have been put on the spot. Romney seemed very clear with his remarks overall. I like to keep in mind that a lot is usually said, but not necessarily done during their terms. My understanding of Romney's tax cuts is that if we make tax cuts that effect the middle class, particularly small business this will then allow small business to begin to hire more people. As stated, small business is laying off/not considering hiring due to the change in health care, and taxes. Each person you hire then creates new taps for income tax, thus making up for the "cut" in taxes. I just look back over the last 4 years and think about the good and the bad, and I would just rather see someone with some new ideas "take a shot" at it because I just can't stand some of the decisions that have been made. ESPECIALLY involving the automotive world, something that brings almost everyone to this board in the first place. Tesla, Fisker, Cash 4 Clunkers, "saving" the big 3 as if they would have fallen off the face of the nation if the gov't hadn't stepped in, the Volt and Leaf projects. I just don't get it. I don't like to argue politics, just like to chime in now and again to bring up ideas that I have not seen other people bring up. So, don't expect some crazy retort to something you say to me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicedH22 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I can't believe the time and effort being spent on debating something a presidential contender said (something I firmly believe has been blown completely out of proportion), instead of discussing what the sitting president has actually (not) done. Worse, I can't believe the millions spent by Obama to showcase "47%" in his ads instead of displaying his own accomplishments. Sad. Its no mistake that the democrats have spent their entire effort in going after Romney 'personally' and not on policies/performance... they are VERY good at getting at hte average person emotionally, and telling people want they want to hear... What I find most annoying... they are STILL playing the bush card... WTF! "Romney is the next bush, back to the policies that got us here.... blah blah blah" And I still contend it was the DEMOCRATIC congress that was the problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurkvinny Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Its no mistake that the democrats have spent their entire effort in going after Romney 'personally' and not on policies/performance... they are VERY good at getting at the average person emotionally, and telling people what they want to hear... Yep. If everyone on both sides can't admit the above, you're not being honest with yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I would vote for Obama If he worked on all those promises from 4 years ago instead of going on jimmy kimmel. He's got the seat now, he's had it for 4 years, lets see some fucking work to show for it. I would love to see someone succeed in moving country forward regardless of party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 What would be Romneys best move politically to have those on the edge get or regain confidence in him?? How does he get the female vote? Strippers. Everyone likes strippers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.