wagner Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Ok, this is just getting out of hand. These elected officials (both sides) are spending like drunkin rednecks that just got their first of the month check. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/24/ObamaCar-handout-for-taxpayer-subsidized-vehicles-for-kids-built-into-immigration-bill-too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 The provision that outlines how the money can be legally used for providing “supportive services” like “transportation,” the aide said, could easily be interpreted to mean the money could be spent buying or leasing or renting vehicles for the beneficiaries. I interpret it as a bus pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I interpret it as a bus pass. That's what I was *hoping* it meant too, but wanted to see if I was missing something. I have a hard time being ok with giving millions of illegals the green light. We as a country need to take care of our own natural born citizens first, then if there is enough time/money left over try to fix the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I have a hard time with the hypocracy involved in this movement. -"We need to create a way to allow the current 11 million undocumented Democrats to become citizens. It'll help boost our economy!" -"Ok, but not before you agree to build up a giant wall and secure our border from the rest." -"Sure. We can do that for you if you allow the current ones to stay." If they are such a boost to our economy, then why are we trying to keep the rest of them out? Shouldn't we open the flood gates and save our money that would apparently be wasted on security? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I'm working with a girl right now who is 25 and has nothing. No ID. No money to get ID. No way to get to where should could get ID, if she had the money. Never been through drivers ED. I think to myself, how do people get themselves to where they can't care for themselves? If you are not medical hindered in some way, what the hell is the problem? We have a system that is manipulated by lazy people with their hand out. We have allowed them to be entitled, so there is no drive for them to do anything for themselves. Why doesn't the government buy out struggling farms and make them into working farms. Have the people who need help work the farm and make their own food. Pay them like someone in prison and when they have enough saved up, they can go back out in the world. Meanwhile, they made food for the county that can be sold to pay for the people overseeing the program. I recommend former military who won't put up with lazy shit. What is that, like 4 birds with one stone? Sad part government run food supply would mean increased cost to make big money for the GOV once they had a big enough stack. Sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I'm working with a girl right now who is 25 and has nothing. No ID. No money to get ID. No way to get to where should could get ID, if she had the money. Never been through drivers ED. I think to myself, how do people get themselves to where they can't care for themselves? If you are not medical hindered in some way, what the hell is the problem? We have a system that is manipulated by lazy people with their hand out. We have allowed them to be entitled, so there is no drive for them to do anything for themselves. Why doesn't the government buy out struggling farms and make them into working farms. Have the people who need help work the farm and make their own food. Pay them like someone in prison and when they have enough saved up, they can go back out in the world. Meanwhile, they made food for the county that can be sold to pay for the people overseeing the program. I recommend former military who won't put up with lazy shit. What is that, like 4 birds with one stone? Sad part government run food supply would mean increased cost to make big money for the GOV once they had a big enough stack. Sucks Because that would require these wothless, lazy, o2 stealing fucks to actually DO something. This is what happens when you take a good thing and turn it into a crutch for the weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 It's worse than you thought! (A) to provide summer employment opportunities for low-income youth, with direct linkages to academic and occupational learning, and may be used to provide supportive services, such as transportation or child care, that is necessary to enable the participation of such youth in the opportunities;” Child care! Which means they're probably going to hire au pairs from Austria. And what's a "youth?" They're probably going to be giving these cushy summer employment opportunities to anyone younger than Obama! And what are these employment opportunities? Probably blow job testers. Seriously, only at Breitbart will you see someone take the undefined use of the word "transportation" and spin it into "Obama is going to be buying free cars for immigrants." Please, please stop getting news from assholes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 And here: The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) on June 18 issued its estimate of the budgetary impact of the immigration reform bill before the Senate.[1] CBO estimates that the bill would significantly reduce deficits over each of the next two decades — by $197 billion in the first decade, fiscal years 2014-2023, and by about $700 billion over the second decade — because higher tax payments from immigrants would exceed the increased costs resulting from the bill, such as for federal benefits for some legal immigrants and increased border security. I don't know about you, but I'm all about reducing deficits. I don't know why some jackhole at Breitbart would be trying to stir up opposition to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 It's worse than you thought! Child care! Which means they're probably going to hire au pairs from Austria. And what's a "youth?" They're probably going to be giving these cushy summer employment opportunities to anyone younger than Obama! And what are these employment opportunities? Probably blow job testers. Seriously, only at Breitbart will you see someone take the undefined use of the word "transportation" and spin it into "Obama is going to be buying free cars for immigrants." Please, please stop getting news from assholes. If I stop getting my news from assholes I will be forced to only read small town news papers. Fact is you take what the media says and divide by two, because any of it will only be a half truth used to pull you one way or the other. This entire immigration reform is not going to help this country in anway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 If I stop getting my news from assholes I will be forced to only ready small town news papers. Fact is you take what the media says and divide by two, because any of it will only be a half truth used to pull you one way or the other. I think you're making a false equivalency here between all sources of "media." They're not all the same, and the amount of bullshit coming out of Breitbart or Beck or HuffPo or DailyKos isn't nearly the same as the amount of bullshit coming from CNN or NPR or (shudder) very limited parts of Fox. There are real journalists and there are assholes, and it's not wise to lump them all together as "the media" and dismiss them all out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 And here: I don't know about you, but I'm all about reducing deficits. I don't know why some jackhole at Breitbart would be trying to stir up opposition to this. How do they come up with those numbers? Is that best case, worse case, or just a guess? I would love to see the decifit reduced, however is this taking into the account the stress all of these new tax payers are going to put on a system that can't take the current load? Question, are we going to background check any of these illegals? I mean I'm sure they are all fine, upstanding people that have no criminal background, or could be influenced by lets say a drug cartel, but I would feel much better knowing who we just let in. Just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think you're making a false equivalency here between all sources of "media." They're not all the same, and the amount of bullshit coming out of Breitbart or Beck or HuffPo or DailyKos isn't nearly the same as the amount of bullshit coming from CNN or NPR or (shudder) very limited parts of Fox. There are real journalists and there are assholes, and it's not wise to lump them all together as "the media" and dismiss them all out of hand. I was forced to watch fox and friends thsi weekend because thats all my dad will watch. After 10 minutes I wanted to suck start a shotgun, those people are a special kind of stupid I thought only were created by Hollywood... Glen Beck needs to be put down like the animal he is, that guy is not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 How do they come up with those numbers? Is that best case, worse case, or just a guess? I would love to see the decifit reduced, however is this taking into the account the stress all of these new tax payers are going to put on a system that can't take the current load? Yes, it takes all that into account. I don't know how optimistic or pessimistic the numbers are. The CBO generally explains their methodology and provides ample caveats. Read here and here. They have no actual control over the budget or what congress will do in the future, so there's only so much their predictive powers can do. Question, are we going to background check any of these illegals? I mean I'm sure they are all fine, upstanding people that have no criminal background, or could be influenced by lets say a drug cartel, but I would feel much better knowing who we just let in. Just a thought Remember that this bill has 85% support in the senate. That said, (3) They do not have a felony conviction or three or more misdemeanors. If someone is working for a cartel and we don't know about it, then I guess we're fucked, but there's only so much we can do. And it's not like they're not already living here anyway.... Above quote from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 How do they come up with those numbers? Is that best case, worse case, or just a guess? I would love to see the decifit reduced, however is this taking into the account the stress all of these new tax payers are going to put on a system that can't take the current load? Just a thought Just so you know, the notion that we have some immediate massive crippling debt problem is spurious. Even John Boehner finally admitted it: Link The reality that current illegal immigrants pay more taxes than services rendered is a fairly obvious one, if you are constantly concerned about getting found out, you tend to stay under the radar and away from government agencies, medical facilities... really anyone who writes shit down; all the while, despite what Fox and Breibert tell you, paying sales tax, payroll and SS taxes. Libertarians agree that immigration should be open and unimpeded. Just like with religion, conservatives pick and choose parts of libertarian ideology that reinforce their preconceived notions. http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Just so you know, the notion that we have some immediate massive crippling debt problem is spurious. Even John Boehner finally admitted it: Link The reality that current illegal immigrants pay more taxes than services rendered is a fairly obvious one, if you are constantly concerned about getting found out, you tend to stay under the radar and away from government agencies, medical facilities... really anyone who writes shit down; all the while, despite what Fox and Breibert tell you, paying sales tax, payroll and SS taxes. Libertarians agree that immigration should be open and unimpeded. Just like with religion, conservatives pick and choose parts of libertarian ideology that reinforce their preconceived notions. http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration Ok, so they are paying sales tax, payroll and SS taxes, but not using the services. What is going to happen when they do? That is what I am looking at, can the system take that added use? I don't know that much and thats why I am asking. Most conseratives annoy me how they like to use religion as a reason to do something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Ok, so they are paying sales tax, payroll and SS taxes, but not using the services. What is going to happen when they do? That is what I am looking at, can the system take that added use? I don't know that much and thats why I am asking. The CBO says it is a net positive impact. Most on the right disagree with the CBO when it conflicts with their agenda (yet cite it when it doesn't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 The CBO says it is a net positive impact. Most on the right disagree with the CBO when it conflicts with their agenda (yet cite it when it doesn't). Ok, this is what I wanted to know. I am not really a right or left kind of guy, more of a "all these elected people are fools" kind of guy. We need more smart people to run this country that don't have or will receive any benefit from their elected decisions. A man can dream right? So, i have learned today that Obama and the evil liberal's in fact WON'T be giving away cars at this time. The CBO might know what they are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Ok, this is what I wanted to know. I am not really a right or left kind of guy, more of a "all these elected people are fools" kind of guy. We need more smart people to run this country that don't have or will receive any benefit from their elected decisions. A man can dream right? So, i have learned today that Obama and the evil liberal's in fact WON'T be giving away cars at this time. The CBO might know what they are talking about. It doesn't matter if they are smart or well intentioned, chances are good that some or many long term benefits will not benefit the plutocracy. Massive amounts of money will be mobilized against that politician labeling him everything from a socialist to a communist; sometimes in the same breath. 47% of people will believe their benevolent overlords in hopes of one day becoming part of the upper crust, completely oblivious that the US has more rigid economic mobility than India's caste system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Why doesn't the government buy out struggling farms and make them into working farms. Have the people who need help work the farm and make their own food. Pay them like someone in prison and when they have enough saved up, they can go back out in the world. Meanwhile, they made food for the county that can be sold to pay for the people overseeing the program. I recommend former military who won't put up with lazy shit. This is pretty much 100% communism. It's been pretty well documented that it's all but impossible to build savings on current minimum wage when you have a family to feed. edit: not sure if Jonathan Swift style satire to troll the right wing nuts, or actual wing nut misunderstanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 This is pretty much 100% communism. It's been pretty well documented that it's all but impossible to build savings on current minimum wage when you have a family to feed. I said pay them like someone in prison. You said a family can't save up on minimum wage. Apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I said pay them like someone in prison. You said a family can't save up on minimum wage. Apples and oranges. http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/5120-3-08 You're absolutely right. Ohio minimum wage pays you $7.85/hour. Without any taxes whatsoever, based on 140 hours worked (comparable to the highest paid Ohio prisoner) that would pay you $1,099. The highest paid Ohio prisoner category, per the link above, is paid $24/month assuming 140 hours worked. You're right, it is apples and oranges. I guess in your scenario, the $1,075/month equivalent difference would be used to pay for the services I described, since they're supposed to be saving that $24 every 140 hours they work to eventually "get out". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoe Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) You obviously are looking to argue your point vs. ask for more detail. In prison food and shelter are provided. If you want to argue, tell me I'm supporting slavory. They would live and work on the farm. Spend a year there, by your numbers, it looks like they would have over $10,000 saved up. We could only hope they learn the value of hard work and could then take that to a different job. Edited June 25, 2013 by Mojoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 You obviously are looking to argue your point vs. ask for more detail. In prison food and shelter are provided. If you want to argue, tell me I'm supporting slavory. It They would live and work on the farm. Spend a year there, by your numbers, it looks like they would have over $10,000 saved up. We could only hope they learn the value of hard work and could then take that to a different job. This would never work in modern entitlement merica, people have no clue what the value of hard work is.... Not saying its a bad idea (in fact i think its what this country needs) but you would never get buy in. The required political correctness would not allow it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Nm, offtopic rant, back to regularly scheduled program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwishiwascool Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 The notion that immigrants are lazy moochers is getting a lot of air time on talk radio, it is completely false. How can they be both lazy resource suckers but also guilty of taking American jobs? Reality: Immigrants have a lower unemployment rate than second generation citizens, they are more likely to be business owners, and the percentage they represent in the population is far lower than the federal, state and local resources they consume. Citation: http://www.cbpp.org/files/2-10-12pov.pdf (I get that CBPP is left of center, they cite their work too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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