Divorce with children

[Jewtoys]

So if there is a box stuffed to the gills in an undisclosed location, please tell me how one would know whats in it?

 

 

 

 

 

So who's the real asshole? The girl that wanted to make it work, or the guy that strung her along? If she wanted kids, and you didn't, why string her along? 8 years is a LONG time to wait around for someone, and any woman who was actually worth being around would not stick around for 8 years for your good company LOL

 

 

 

 

 

The one bright side of shared custody LOL. Like I said. pros and cons to everything. One of my wife's friends who co-parents told my wife she does not want 100% custody because she likes to have her weekends off. Sounds fucked up, but I get it.

 

 

 

String her along? She knew from the start my stance on children and marriage. She started to charge her mind on wanting kids, and I saw the writing on the wall and ended it. The asshole move would be to string her along from that point forward. I let her stay in my place for months, till she found a place she could afford. I helped her move, furnished her place, and gave her money.

[BStowers023]

What saddens me, (but unfortunately doesn't shock me) is how many people read stories like these (not just in this thread, but everywhere) and what comes to mind is, "So, I guess I shouldn't get married then, or get and uber awesome prenup."

 

 

Pretty much. Why incur the liability if you don't need to. If you owned a business you wouldn't incur an unnecessary liability that could really only harm you if you could completely avoid it. I mean, like Shawn said, if you're religious then it makes sense (I guess). Particularly if you're the bread winner in the relationship. Even if you know someone for 20 years, things can always change. Shit, I've known my dad my whole life but he's changed a whole hell of a lot and not for the better.

[verse]

Kill her with kindness.

Don't engage her in arguments.

 

I wanted to reply just to say, this is exactly what I did. I got everything out of my divorce that I wanted. Kept everything that was mine, basically have full custody, and didn't pay a dime of child support although making 3x more than her.

 

 

I wouldn't ever engage in any type of argument. She can't pick up my son or is busy that weekend, no big deal I'll change my plans to take care of him. It's been 7 years and I could say that we are friends now. I'll text her funny things, and she does the same thing. She has my son every Wednesday and will take him Saturday nights if I make plans to do something without him. Him and I basically do everything together though, he's 10 now so we do a lot together.

[Geeesammy]

String her along? She knew from the start my stance on children and marriage. She started to charge her mind on wanting kids, and I saw the writing on the wall and ended it. The asshole move would be to string her along from that point forward. I let her stay in my place for months, till she found a place she could afford. I helped her move, furnished her place, and gave her money.

 

Damn JP. Between this thread and the fun car thread your reading comprehension has been way down

[coltboostin]

Damn JP. Between this thread and the fun car thread your reading comprehension has been way down

 

I'm not sure why you are sohorny for me?

[RC K9]

Actually we live in the best age for marriage right now. The divorce rate reached a 40 year low in 2016 while the marriage rate is increasing. Your chances for divorce are still around 50/50 but that isn't a hard rule and depends on a low of factors (the chances of staying together goes up the richer you are for example).

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4575495/divorce-rate-nearly-40-year-low/%3Fsource%3Ddam

 

There are other factors that suggest this as well, like the spousal violence murder rate has gone down.

 

People get all nostalgic about the old days when social stigmas forced unhappy to stay together but really as we move toward a more morally liberated society that doesn't condem cohabitation and sex before marriage and a broader way to meet people to date, it is giving marriage a fighting chance.

 

 

 

Schools have always raised our kids since this country was founded. Maybe there were more stay at home parents back in the good old days, but families were also larger and individual kids didn't get any more attention. My brother and I grew up in a household where both parents worked 12-14 hour shifts 6 days a week. I still feel raised by them even though they weren't as around as some of my friends parents. My mother was orphaned when she was 16, and raised by her brother, my father's parents both worked 7 days a week 12 hour shifts and was raised by hanging around his cousins that lived in the neighborhood. my grandfather and grandmother were each one of 11 kids in their families during the Great Depression and were raised in the jobs they had to get as kids help their family survive, like hundreds of thousands of others exactly like them in NYC. And don't forget, child abuse as an enforceable crime is really recent, people used to beat the shit out of their kids and often their spouses (and some still do).This notion that the good old days were the nuclear family where mom raised the kids and that is all gone is utter Horseshit.

 

Everybody is different, and only each person can know what's best for themselves and their children in any circumstance. The best we can do is offer our support, kindness, and compassion to those who need us as a community.

 

"Morally liberated."

 

Yeah, you're right. We as a society are far "better" off than the gernations before us.

 

I have friends that are "morally liberated." Slayin' hoes every which way and what. Because hey, you do you.

 

They are paying for it now though. In more ways than one. Funny that all the problems my friends have are a result of this "moral liberation", yet I seem to have none of those issues.

 

Just lucky I suppose.

[Geeto67]

"Morally liberated."

 

Yeah, you're right. We as a society are far "better" off than the gernations before us.

 

I have friends that are "morally liberated." Slayin' hoes every which way and what. Because hey, you do you.

 

They are paying for it now though. In more ways than one. Funny that all the problems my friends have are a result of this "moral liberation", yet I seem to have none of those issues.

 

Just lucky I suppose.

 

I guess it all depends on how you define "morally liberated".

 

Shaming people because they want to live together before getting married is something that can only benefit society by it's absence. Same with shaming divorced people (esp women) and treating single parents as social lepers to the point where they are unemployable (which is something that has happened in our lifetimes and does still happen in some closed communities), It hurts us as a whole and is not going to be missed.

 

I don't think knocking over liquor stores fits that morally liberated category so you should probably tell your friends to stop.

 

Also, everyone has problems, big frickin' whoop. Actions have consequences and you can't escape them, all actions - whether you think they are morally liberated or not. That's a pretty high horse you seem to be ignoring your own problems from, just because you don't have the same ones as your friends...I mean it's not like you are completely abdicating any personally responsibility by continually bating your neighbor with low tones that cause queasiness and equally passive aggressive response letters to his his shitty passive aggressive letters, I mean he brought this on himself right? can't blame you for what happens next - it's not like you have a choice in the matter...

[RC K9]

I guess it all depends on how you define "morally liberated".

 

Shaming people because they want to live together before getting married is something that can only benefit society by it's absence. Same with shaming divorced people (esp women) and treating single parents as social lepers to the point where they are unemployable (which is something that has happened in our lifetimes and does still happen in some closed communities), It hurts us as a whole and is not going to be missed.

 

I don't think knocking over liquor stores fits that morally liberated category so you should probably tell your friends to stop.

 

Also, everyone has problems, big frickin' whoop. Actions have consequences and you can't escape them, all actions - whether you think they are morally liberated or not. That's a pretty high horse you seem to be ignoring your own problems from, just because you don't have the same ones as your friends...I mean it's not like you are completely abdicating any personally responsibility by continually bating your neighbor with low tones that cause queasiness and equally passive aggressive response letters to his his shitty passive aggressive letters, I mean he brought this on himself right? can't blame you for what happens next - it's not like you have a choice in the matter...

 

Who is knocking off liquor stores? What are you even talking about?

 

I am simply pointing out I don't have ex-wives, baby mommas, crazy exes to deal with because I took their v card then just kind of grew tired of their company, etc. All things I see on a regular basis with close friends and many acquaintances who all seemingly subscribe to this socially acceptable moral liberation you speak of.

 

As for the situation with my neighbors, (which has nothing to do with this convo), I absolutely have a hand in what happens as a result of the manner in which I responded to their transgressions. I had a few hands to play, I picked one, and now we see what happens. Though, they seem to have been pretty respectful lately as they have been outside recently, but kept the noise level to a reasonable volume. Problem solved? Maybe not, but I haven't had any issues yet. (Again, no idea what that has to do with marriage, children, etc).

[Geeto67]

Who is knocking off liquor stores? What are you even talking about?

 

it was a joke based on the fact that you and I are probably defining morally liberated differently. And apparently it didn't land so much as crash into the side of a mountain.

 

 

I am simply pointing out I don't have ex-wives, baby mommas, crazy exes to deal with because I took their v card then just kind of grew tired of their company, etc. All things I see on a regular basis with close friends and many acquaintances who all seemingly subscribe to this socially acceptable moral liberation you speak of.

 

so your solution is...what....celibacy?

 

Do you really think the old way of sparse dating only people you happen to meet in real life by accident and getting married quickly is somehow better?

 

All the same shit that happens now happened in the old days, and in some cases more frequently back then. The difference is we are getting less miserable about it because people are being less judgemental about it in mainstream society and we are putting more structure in to our kids lives with the non-parental programs.

 

 

As for the situation with my neighbors, (which has nothing to do with this convo), I absolutely have a hand in what happens as a result of the manner in which I responded to their transgressions. I had a few hands to play, I picked one, and now we see what happens. Though, they seem to have been pretty respectful lately as they have been outside recently, but kept the noise level to a reasonable volume. Problem solved? Maybe not, but I haven't had any issues yet. (Again, no idea what that has to do with marriage, children, etc).

 

Again, it was just mild ribbing because you and I seem to have completely different definitions of "morally liberated".

[kirks5oh]

Welcome to the age of broken families and shitty parenting.

 

Everyone needs a break, date night, occasional long weekend; but fk me if I am happy about splitting custody of my children and being happy about it because I get big long breaks. At that point, your kid a a trophy to show off and please you. When you are done, pawn it off on someone else. If that's the mentality, you shouldn't have kids in the first place.

 

Schools raise our kids, daycares raise our kids, babysitters raise our kids, grandparents raise our kids. Parents no longer raise their kids.

 

you're wrong on a few levels bud. hate to break it to you, but I'm 100% more dad now, then I was 5 years ago. maybe that's a knock on me, maybe not. I'm not happy to split custody of my kids, but that's unavoidable at this point. I take my kids to school everyday on weeks I have them, and pick them up most days. I cook their meals, buy their clothes, laundry, dishes, etc etc. I also get to go to all their sports on weeks I don't have them. being a single father and being good at it, at the same time having a successful career is damn hard. I'd challenge anyone to do the job I do--ain't happening. and on the weeks I don't have the kids, I'm at work before 6am, and don't leave work till after 6pm. most of those weeks I take call around the clock as well. I make a great living--enough money to hire a team of live-in nannies/cooks/cleaners/etc. but won't ever do that.

 

schools have ALWAYS raised kids. we are in an era where women have successful careers. I'm easily in a position to have my fiancé take care of the kids (we have 5 between us--2 sets of twins), but the fact she has a successful career, and amazing drive, is important for me---its also important for our 4 girls to see her success and realize they can have that too if they work hard. there's no such thing as a stay-at-home-mom anymore.

 

there were plenty of shitty parents back in the day. If I raised my son to treat women the way my father treated my mom, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. sure, there are plenty of broken families, shitty parents, and poorly raised kids. but there are also people who step up to the challenge of being a single parent after a divorce

[RC K9]

you're wrong on a few levels bud. hate to break it to you, but I'm 100% more dad now, then I was 5 years ago. maybe that's a knock on me, maybe not. I'm not happy to split custody of my kids, but that's unavoidable at this point. I take my kids to school everyday on weeks I have them, and pick them up most days. I cook their meals, buy their clothes, laundry, dishes, etc etc. I also get to go to all their sports on weeks I don't have them. being a single father and being good at it, at the same time having a successful career is damn hard. I'd challenge anyone to do the job I do--ain't happening. and on the weeks I don't have the kids, I'm at work before 6am, and don't leave work till after 6pm. most of those weeks I take call around the clock as well. I make a great living--enough money to hire a team of live-in nannies/cooks/cleaners/etc. but won't ever do that.

 

schools have ALWAYS raised kids. we are in an era where women have successful careers. I'm easily in a position to have my fiancé take care of the kids (we have 5 between us--2 sets of twins), but the fact she has a successful career, and amazing drive, is important for me---its also important for our 4 girls to see her success and realize they can have that too if they work hard. there's no such thing as a stay-at-home-mom anymore.

 

there were plenty of shitty parents back in the day. If I raised my son to treat women the way my father treated my mom, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. sure, there are plenty of broken families, shitty parents, and poorly raised kids. but there are also people who step up to the challenge of being a single parent after a divorce

 

Wasn't aimed at you. In fact, based on your side of the story, i'd say you are pretty justified. Infidelity is about the only reason I could see kickin' my ol' lady to the curb.

 

I'm not even saying every child from single parent homes "fail." Though the most recent stats I heard (on a liberal news outlet at that) showed a vast majority of them become leeches on society. Some are far better than others.

 

Serious question, (and obviously you don't have to answer, but I am legitimately curious): After it came out that your wife was being an unfaithful tramp, did she face any serious repercussions from her peers and family?

 

As for school having ALWAYS raised kids. In human history that seems to be a relatively recent occurrence going back to sometime in the 1800's (the year escapes me at this time) as a result of the industrial revolution. The workforce needed massive amounts of workers all able to do the same tasks at the same rate, which is why you see schools structured the way they are, and those kids that aren't quite like the rest of the herd are diagnosed with some kind of disorder and put on meds to fall in line.

[o0n8]

Infidelity is about the only reason I could see kickin' my ol' lady to the curb.

I would include attempted murder on that list.

 

and those kids that aren't quite like the rest of the herd are diagnosed with some kind of disorder and put on meds to fall in line.

 

That's an uneducated overgeneralization response.

 

OP, sorry about your situation, just play

everyday.

[RC K9]

That's an uneducated overgeneralization response.

 

Do you intend to expand on that, or just leave it vague whilst using leftists buzzwords like "uneducated?"

 

How would you know whether I have educated myself or not on our current current system, and to what extent?

[Green Bastard]

I know this is a bit off topic, but I wanted to make a comment about adopted children (because of the responses earlier). My son is adopted and I couldn't possibly look at him in any other way than him being my own. To me he is seriously one of the coolest people on earth. When we did adopt I was concerned about possibly feeling different about him than a biological child (I have seen this happen with a friend that was adopted), but with my daughter coming along recently, I don't. Also, there was a statement made about adopting rather than having your own, seemingly in response to child support. If you adopt as a couple, you have the same responsibilaties after a divorce as you would have had if the child was biologically yours.

[Geeesammy]

What saddens me, (but unfortunately doesn't shock me) is how many people read stories like these (not just in this thread, but everywhere) and what comes to mind is, "So, I guess I shouldn't get married then, or get and uber awesome prenup."

 

You base your thoughts off your experiences, and when you have no experiences you have to rely on others in order to form an opinion. Sure, marriage seems like it can be a great thing, but the "tail risk" is that you get royally fucked as a man, even more so if you have kids. At the end of the day it isn't worth me risking half my life savings (even at this point in life) on a bet that something will work out for years to come.

 

I'm glad you and your wife get along so well and it has worked for an 8 year span, but people change. You or any other happily married person could come home one day to "her" deciding she doesn't want "that life" anymore and would rather travel the world as a single woman. I'm not wishing that on your or anyone else, hell I wouldn't even with that on Geetoad. I just had a friend just go through the whole "I wanna be single and live like a gypsy across the US" thing 3 days after he dropped $10,000 on a ring to propose with. I was almost turned around on the idea of marriage, then that happened and I don't want to deal with that bullshit.

 

At the end of the day....

[Geeesammy]

I mean Dan B. basically lays out how 90% of my 20 something and 30 something friends feel about marriage anymore.

 

1:30 is the relevant part, wont let me link to a time.

 

[kirks5oh]

Wasn't aimed at you. In fact, based on your side of the story, i'd say you are pretty justified. Infidelity is about the only reason I could see kickin' my ol' lady to the curb.

 

I'm not even saying every child from single parent homes "fail." Though the most recent stats I heard (on a liberal news outlet at that) showed a vast majority of them become leeches on society. Some are far better than others.

 

Serious question, (and obviously you don't have to answer, but I am legitimately curious): After it came out that your wife was being an unfaithful tramp, did she face any serious repercussions from her peers and family?

 

As for school having ALWAYS raised kids. In human history that seems to be a relatively recent occurrence going back to sometime in the 1800's (the year escapes me at this time) as a result of the industrial revolution. The workforce needed massive amounts of workers all able to do the same tasks at the same rate, which is why you see schools structured the way they are, and those kids that aren't quite like the rest of the herd are diagnosed with some kind of disorder and put on meds to fall in line.

 

 

I hear you. I would agree with you, in that if the parents don't step up their game after the divorce, the kids are in a difficult spot. I couldn't focus on my kids prior to being divorced because I couldn't get over my ex's indiscretions, amongst other things. I was also a little too focused on career/etc, and neglected the kids (because she was the stay at home mom) as well as neglected my personal health. my ex was focused on money and possessions.

 

I had to make major changes after the divorce.

 

in terms of repercussions for her, she literally lost all of her friends. most of them came up to me after the divorce and apologized for initially siding with her---she told them the divorce was because I was abusive and treated her as an object, etc. once they found out exactly what I put up with, they disowned her. she has a few acquaintances, and her bf has some buddies, but that's about it. her parents supported her, because that's what parents do. I don't think they agreed with what she did, and I know her mom realizes her daughter is a hot mess. she still sends me cards for birthdays, Christmas, fathers day, etc. and I'm still very friendly with her when she visits. her dad is a douchebag.

 

 

my family basically hates her, and admitted to me later that they never really liked her. at the low point of my divorce, 3 months in, I went home to ohio from Wisconsin for easter. many of my family members just found out I was getting a divorce. at easter dinner, my dad stood up and gave a 5 minute speech (I won't go into the details, but it was awesome). I was totally distraught, but all 25 people at the dinner table stood up and told me I had their full support, and they had never really liked her. basically a standing ovation. it was a lifechanging moment for me. not that it was to be celebrated, but it was important to have all my family members in one spot have my back.

 

but I would agree with you that infidelity, is about the only deal-breaker for me.

[Otis Nice]

I mean Dan B...

 

W.W.D.B.D.

[o0n8]

Do you intend to expand on that, or just leave it vague whilst using leftists buzzwords like "uneducated?"

 

How would you know whether I have educated myself or not on our current current system, and to what extent?

 

Nope, just going leave it vague. An educated person on the subject matter wouldn't make your opinionated statement.

 

If you would like to educate yourself here is a helpful link: http://bridgewayohio.org/for-parents/helpful-links/

[RC K9]

Nope, just going leave it vague. An educated person on the subject matter wouldn't make your opinionated statement.

 

If you would like to educate yourself here is a helpful link: http://bridgewayohio.org/for-parents/helpful-links/

 

So you provide a incredibly small exception, seemingly try to pass it off as the rule, to try to prove your point that I'm uneducated in how the educational system in our society operates as whole?

 

OK.

[SpaceGhost]

Nope, just going leave it vague. An educated person on the subject matter wouldn't make your opinionated statement.

 

If you would like to educate yourself here is a helpful link: http://bridgewayohio.org/for-parents/helpful-links/

 

Great response. Kudos.

 

The amount of time effort and tears that have been put into getting my daughter to learn to read with ADD and Dyslexia, her passing her 3rd grade reading proficiency on her own, without relying on her IEP to move on to 4th grade. Yeah we just gave her a pill and a pat on the head and all is well.

 

Kids are mean, the shit she endures because she has to do extra work to be on the same level. If you remember school at all the kids that leave to do extra work and miss out on music class, (her favorite time in school) they know they are different and make sure she knows they know. Amazing she's still an amazing positive child and is very social.

 

Dude has no clue how offensive he is being. SMH

[Geeto67]

As for school having ALWAYS raised kids. In human history that seems to be a relatively recent occurrence going back to sometime in the 1800's (the year escapes me at this time) as a result of the industrial revolution. The workforce needed massive amounts of workers all able to do the same tasks at the same rate, which is why you see schools structured the way they are, and those kids that aren't quite like the rest of the herd are diagnosed with some kind of disorder and put on meds to fall in line.

 

dude...just admit you are talking out of your ass on this one.

 

Formal education in Europe started in the middle ages (5th-15th centuries) as extensions of churches to teach Latin grammar and literacy, mostly to those who could afford it. By the 1800s they were private institutions, mostly charitable but a few for profit, that taught everybody. In 1870 England made schools part of the state's responsibility and the crown provided the funding for education from that point on. The US, as a colony, inherited most of the European school system of private charitable institutions, mostly funded by religious organizations. However, Massachusetts founded the first state funded school in 1639, and the New England Colonies made school attendance compulsory in 1642. That's not the 1800s. The Arts programs and things that promote creativity weren't added to the national curriculum til 1945, long after the industrial revolution. The modern US school structure is actually older than the US itself. Have they adjusted it to meet the needs of the population over time? yes. Do they continue to adjust? yes.

 

This nonsense about the industrial revolution making schools what they are today is misguided. Prior to the 1880s schools were college preparatory institutions with little practical application. Between 1880 and 1920 education broadened to include practical knowledge (we know this as vocational training now, but it was much less defined back then). In those days, white collar disciplines like accounting, law, financial services did not require college or license and they benefited the most, actual mechanical vocational training wasn't added till around 1910. Also around this time schools developed into social and community centers - Schools always had the children for the majority of the day light hours (9am-4pm in the 1800 for all the days not around harvest season) - but now they were social centers as well as educational ones. The only legacy the industrial revolution had on the american education system is the vocational training program, which is actually kept separate from primary education and does not make up the lion's share of education.

 

what you are talking about is some conspiracy theory bunk that someone pitched to you and you thought sounded reasonable. Anybody with any insight into the inner workings of how education works in this country, or has a child that requires any kind of special attention knows it to be illogical conspiracy bunk.

[RC K9]

Great response. Kudos.

 

The amount of time effort and tears that have been put into getting my daughter to learn to read with ADD and Dyslexia, her passing her 3rd grade reading proficiency on her own, without relying on her IEP to move on to 4th grade. Yeah we just gave her a pill and a pat on the head and all is well.

 

Kids are mean, the shit she endures because she has to do extra work to be on the same level. If you remember school at all the kids that leave to do extra work and miss out on music class, (her favorite time in school) they know they are different and make sure she knows they know. Amazing she's still an amazing positive child and is very social.

 

Dude has no clue how offensive he is being. SMH

 

 

How is it offensive to make statements about the severe shortcomings of our obsolete educational school systems that have since the victorian era and continue to this day to get all kids to fit the same mold? I've been through the schools as I am sure most of you have. Get in line, or gtfo. I remember a few occasions where I tried thinking outside the box and challenged teachers on the subjects at hand and was scoffed at with no discussion or answer. Simply told "you'd have to take a different class in college to discuss that." So instead of maintaining my current curiosity in the subject, I essentially get told, "I don't have the answer even though it directly pertains to what's being discussed so drop it." Schools want things done a certain way and an "unapproved" way of arriving at the correct conclusion is still deemed "wrong."

 

How about how many kids are on meds for ADD/ADHD these days, yet when they are taken out of the main system and attended to in a manner that compliments they way they learn, they flourish?

 

I suppose the presentations by educational researchers and talks with several pediatricians, (some of whom I know personally), are complete garbage.

 

Yup, our system is working just fantastic.

 

Failing to see how what I said has anything to do with your daughter, or how it's even remotely offensive. Kids like your daughter are the reason I say a one size fits all educational system is not a good idea, she shouldn't just be pumped full of meds and deemed "not normal" yet somehow that is offensive?

[SpaceGhost]

You wrote:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC K9

and those kids that aren't quite like the rest of the herd are diagnosed with some kind of disorder and put on meds to fall in line.

 

My daughter is one of those kids, however they are not just given the meds, she has an IEP, they have to take her to a different class. Yeah my daughter can't learn to read by memorizing sight words, but in order to be taught to read with phonetics (the way most of us older folk learned) she has to have an IEP and leave the rest of the class. I agree about the learning part, but the way it comes across is all us parents do is medicate and let the school handle it. That is not the case. We spend hours with her.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Benjamin

[RC K9]

You wrote:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC K9

and those kids that aren't quite like the rest of the herd are diagnosed with some kind of disorder and put on meds to fall in line.

 

My daughter is one of those kids, however they are not just given the meds, she has an IEP, they have to take her to a different class. Yeah my daughter can't learn to read by memorizing sight words, but in order to be taught to read with phonetics (the way most of us older folk learned) she has to have an IEP and leave the rest of the class. I agree about the learning part, but the way it comes across is all us parents do is medicate and let the school handle it. That is not the case. We spend hours with her.

 

I do apologize for not wording it n a way that better conveyed what I was trying to say. It seems to have portrayed a message I was not trying to deliver.

 

My statement was pertaining to all of the intelligent kids I knew growing up who were never recognized as such by the schools and were deemed as having fictitious disorders and pumped full of meds and turned into zombies, the testimonies of parents who have confirmed as much, the educational researchers I have listened to, as well as pediatricians that play along (thank God some don't), and the parents who rely on the schools to instill moral values, social values, etc. I am sincerely glad your daughter's experiences were different than that as I can't imagine the effort it took both on behalf of her parents and the teachers that understood and accommodated her needs.