BStowers023 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 What do you guys think? Not listed but Corporate Tax goes from 35 to 21% http://i.imgur.com/UN6CUrj.png http://i.imgur.com/2k1afGk.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zx2guy19 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I'm really interested in the dialogue on this....based on the fact that I have a business (real estate investment) and a W2 job, I'm wondering how much it'll impact me. I did pay my personal property taxes yesterday for the next 12 months- apparently it's significantly more advantageous to do so in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwashmycar Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 It seems good, subscribing for arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammit Charlie Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Hard to get out of debt when your income drops. Hope there is a short and long term plan for reducing our national debt. Don't get me wrong, I'll be happy to see that money back in my account, but would feel better knowing our debt is being addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Paying less taxes (temporarily) is great and all, but how are things going to get paid for? Debt much? This country's infrastructure is fukt as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted December 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Paying less taxes (temporarily) is great and all, but how are things going to get paid for? Debt much? This country's infrastructure is fukt as is. I think the idea is that this will bring businesses back to the U.S. so there will essentially be more to tax in regards to corporate tax. Did you vote for Obama? Just curious because it's funny if you did complaining about "debt much" when he doubled our debt while in office :dumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 this is not the whole picture. There are tax exemptions for the lower tax brackets that are being allowed to expire that this "decrease" does not make up for. What's an example of what's expiring? The $4,050 personal exemption which you can claim for you, your spouse, and each of your dependents. This really fucks over people who have 3 or more kids because without it, even with the rate reductions - their tax bill increases. The reductions still favor the higher income classes and the projections of the increase in the national debt are staggering. Actually, let's talk about the national debt for a second, I find it completely disingenuous that the republicans make debt reduction a part of the platform and then in every instance since Reagan have managed to increase it. It's just straight up lying to the American people. Did you vote for Obama? Just curious because it's funny if you did complaining about "debt much" when he doubled our debt while in office :dumb: You have to be one of the least informed motherfuckers I have ever met: http://www.crfb.org/blogs/has-president-obama-doubled-national-debt https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296 Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2, all added more than Obama to the national debt, and honestly some of the debt growth under Obama's first term could be attributed to W initiatives that were passed when he was in office but didn't take effect until Obama took office. Reagan more than tripled our national debt because of reaganomics and heavy defense spending and the current CIC is poised to do exactly the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted December 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 this is not the whole picture. There are tax exemptions for the lower tax brackets that are being allowed to expire that this "decrease" does not make up for. What's an example of what's expiring? The $4,050 personal exemption which you can claim for you, your spouse, and each of your dependents. This really fucks over people who have 3 or more kids because without it, even with the rate reductions - their tax bill increases. The reductions still favor the higher income classes and the projections of the increase in the national debt are staggering. Actually, let's talk about the national debt for a second, I find it completely disingenuous that the republicans make debt reduction a part of the platform and then in every instance since Reagan have managed to increase it. It's just straight up lying to the American people. Are you saying we should give tax credits for people who choose to have more kids? Why should you have kids if you can't afford to take care of them without a tax break? I don't think it only favors higher income classes. Based on the chart provided, it looks like just about everyone will benefit from this as long as you're working and paying taxes already. Are you also implying democrats have reduced debt? Or just pointing out that neither party seems to care about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 this is not the whole picture. There are tax exemptions for the lower tax brackets that are being allowed to expire that this "decrease" does not make up for. What's an example of what's expiring? The $4,050 personal exemption which you can claim for you, your spouse, and each of your dependents. This really fucks over people who have 3 or more kids because without it, even with the rate reductions - their tax bill increases. The reductions still favor the higher income classes and the projections of the increase in the national debt are staggering. Actually, let's talk about the national debt for a second, I find it completely disingenuous that the republicans make debt reduction a part of the platform and then in every instance since Reagan have managed to increase it. It's just straight up lying to the American people. You have to be one of the least informed motherfuckers I have ever met: http://www.crfb.org/blogs/has-president-obama-doubled-national-debt https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296 Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2, all added more than Obama to the national debt, and honestly some of the debt growth under Obama's first term could be attributed to W initiatives that were passed when he was in office but didn't take effect until Obama took office. Reagan more than tripled our national debt because of reaganomics and heavy defense spending and the current CIC is poised to do exactly the same thing. I think I'm ok with this. It drives me nuts that lower income folks crank out kids when they truly can't afford it. HOPEFULLY, this will deter that however I sincerely doubt it will. In the end, the kids will probably be the ones that suffer, though I'm not sure they see the benefit their tax break brings to their parents. The cigarette companies probably do though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted December 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 You have to be one of the least informed motherfuckers I have ever met: http://www.crfb.org/blogs/has-president-obama-doubled-national-debt https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296 Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2, all added more than Obama to the national debt, and honestly some of the debt growth under Obama's first term could be attributed to W initiatives that were passed when he was in office but didn't take effect until Obama took office. Reagan more than tripled our national debt because of reaganomics and heavy defense spending and the current CIC is poised to do exactly the same thing. From the Article you provided... By Most Measures, Debt Roughly Doubled Under Obama From a numerical standpoint, Trump is correct that the debt has almost doubled in dollar terms since Obama's first inauguration. Using the gross debt figure Trump cites, debt grew from $10.6 trillion on Inauguration Day 2009 to $19.4 trillion as of July 21. Using the more economically meaningful figure of debt held by the public, which excludes money that the government owes to itself, debt more than doubled from $6.3 trillion to $14 trillion. http://i.imgur.com/5NKLHPb.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 #inbeforeunfundedwars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Are you saying we should give tax credits for people who choose to have more kids? Why should you have kids if you can't afford to take care of them without a tax break? I'm saying an administration that blocks access to birth control and abortion and then PENALIZES people who have more than two kids is scamming the American public. I think the people who chose to have 3 or more kids should enjoy the same tax breaks that those who have less kids currently enjoy. The current net effect isn't that. I don't think it only favors higher income classes. Based on the chart provided, it looks like just about everyone will benefit from this as long as you're working and paying taxes already. you don't think that because you are bad at math? Are you also implying democrats have reduced debt? Or just pointing out that neither party seems to care about that? The democrats don't really run on a national debt as a talking point, but the republicans do and have a track record of doing 100% the opposite of what they claim. Both parties have their contributions to the debt increases, but if you poll republican voters reducing the debt always weighs highs, but their politicians seldom actually do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 From the Article you provided... By Most Measures, Debt Roughly Doubled Under Obama From a numerical standpoint, Trump is correct that the debt has almost doubled in dollar terms since Obama's first inauguration. Using the gross debt figure Trump cites, debt grew from $10.6 trillion on Inauguration Day 2009 to $19.4 trillion as of July 21. Using the more economically meaningful figure of debt held by the public, which excludes money that the government owes to itself, debt more than doubled from $6.3 trillion to $14 trillion. from that same article: However, measuring debt in dollars fails to account for inflation or the fact that the economy and population are larger in 2016 than they were in 2008. Measured as a share of the economy, the debt nearly doubled from 39.4 percent at the end of Fiscal Year (FY) 2008 (four months before Obama took office) to 75.4 percent projected at the end of FY 2016 (two months from now). Gross debt increased by less than half from 70.2 percent at the end of FY 2008 to 104.2 percent projected at the end of FY 2016. It's Unfair to Attribute Debt Increase Entirely to Obama While by many measures debt has doubled under Obama’s presidency, it is hard to argue this is entirely of Obama’s doing. First of all, much of the debt increase was the result of laws and economic conditions in place before Obama took office rather than laws that passed under his presidency. The Congressional Budget Office’s first current law projections of the Obama presidency already projected debt held by the public would rise from $5.8 trillion to $9.1 trillion when Obama left office – and these projections didn’t incorporate the entire depth of the Great Recession, which reduced revenue and therefore further increased debt. Importantly, though, President Obama did sign many laws worsening this debt situation. Among the most significant are the 2009 stimulus, extending the 2001/2003 tax cuts temporarily in 2010 and making most of them permanent in 2012, the 2015 permanent "doc fix," and the tax extenders/omnibus bill at the end of 2015. President Obama also signed several pieces of legislation to reduce projected debt, most significantly the Budget Control Act. But importantly, these laws were written not by the president but by Congress. It is Congress that passes tax and spending legislation. There is little the president can do to impact the debt, positively or negatively, without a bill passed by Congress. Conversly there is little Congress can do without the president's signature or a veto-proof supermajority. Further, during most of Obama's term to date, control of Congress was split between a Democratic Senate and a Republican House. Both branches share blame, both for legislation that increased the debt and for failing to enact legislation that would curb the debt growth that was already projected to occur from the growth of entitlement programs and insufficient revenues. don't just read the part you agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Birth control and abortion are readily available in the united States. Nobody has blocked them. Cut the bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franchi Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Curious to see how it all plays out. I pay a LOT in taxes ( although I am sure less then some on here! ) Waiting though for all the dust to settle before sitting down to crunch some numbers and see how it directly impacts me. I don't care about how it impacts all the rest of you suckers. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I think I'm ok with this. It drives me nuts that lower income folks crank out kids when they truly can't afford it. HOPEFULLY, this will deter that however I sincerely doubt it will. In the end, the kids will probably be the ones that suffer, though I'm not sure they see the benefit their tax break brings to their parents. The cigarette companies probably do though. This is a seriously messed up statement. first off, the national average is 2.1 children by household so it is incorrect to assume that the problem is a lower income class problem. Plus the tax penalty applied to all people with 3+ kids regardless of tax bracket. economic policies that target population control based on econmic standing always unfarily affect other races. That's dangerous territory to be comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Birth control and abortion are readily available in the united States. Nobody has blocked them. Cut the bullshit unless you work for Hobby Lobby. There are ways to "block" things by making them harder to obtain without outright making them illegal. De-funding Planned Parenthood, allowing employers with low wage employees to discriminate as to provided health care based on religious reasons are all examples of that. Edited December 21, 2017 by Geeto67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I think the idea is that this will bring businesses back to the U.S. so there will essentially be more to tax in regards to corporate tax. Did you vote for Obama? Just curious because it's funny if you did complaining about "debt much" when he doubled our debt while in office :dumb: I did vote for Obama. Yeah, according to sources he added 68% to the national debt, not good. Keep in mind that the President prior to him, Bush, increased it by 101%. Billy C only increased it by 32% and every conservatives wet dream, Reagan, increased it by 186%. This is a new plan to increase debt even more and I don't like it. If you're trying to play the partisan game with me...good luck. I don't belong to any party, it's not a team sport for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supplicium Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 unless you work for Hobby Lobby. Whats your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 It drives me nuts that lower income folks crank out kids when they truly can't afford it. HOPEFULLY, this will deter that however I sincerely doubt it will. In the end, the kids will probably be the ones that suffer, though I'm not sure they see the benefit their tax break brings to their parents. The cigarette companies probably do though. I'm with you. The beginning of the movie Idiocracy is so true. This is exactly why abortion and birth control should be available to everyone. Tax breaks won't stop that from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelliganx1 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 unless you work for Hobby Lobby. Really, if you work for Hobby Lobby you can't go to CVS and pick up a box of condoms? He said it readily available not that it's free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Really, if you work for Hobby Lobby you can't go to CVS and pick up a box of condoms? He said it readily available not that it's free. Birth Control pills =/= condoms. IUD's =/= condoms. Plan B =/= condoms. Seriously, it's amazing any woman has ever let you guys inside them, ever, with some of the shit you say. Condoms do not have a 100% effectiveness rate. Actually it's more like 83% if it is even used. That's roughly 15 people out of every 100 - which when you talk about a population in the billions is a lot of kids. Just because you buy them doesn't mean you use them. Also, rapists don't usually care for condom use, including date rapists and marital rape (yes that is a thing, you aren't allowed to rape someone you are married to). Also, condoms aren't cheap. If you are a minimum wage earner there are other priorities than a $4-$14 box of dick bags. And certainly other priorities than an expensive medical procedure. If you had a choice between paying rent and an abortion, which are you going to choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just because a women is GIVEN birth control pills doesn't mean she might not or forget to take them. This books down to personal responsibility and nothing else. I once dated a chick who would forget to take her pill constantly. I had to remind her. You can't govern or force personal responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 BTW quit with micro incidents and making them macro issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Condoms? Who the hell wears condoms?! :dumb: ...might as well not even have sex, amirite fellas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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