Texas high school shooting

[RedRocket1647545505]

Step 1: Research and collect data

Step 2: Analyze data and draft legislation accordingly

Step 3: profit?

 

 

 

 

Yup. It's still there then it is still frustrating meaningful research. At this point gun related deaths are least researched health epidemic with the most amount of deaths. Consider it step 0.5.

 

In United States politics, the Dickey Amendment is a provision first inserted as a rider into the 1996 federal government omnibus spending bill which mandated that "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control."

 

Granted, it's Wikipedia, but I'm not reading in there where it explicitly bans research. It just says it can't be used to advocate or promote further gun control. Is it the funding that can't be used for advocacy, the research, or both?

 

 

Also:

 

On March 21, 2018, Congressional negotiators reached a deal on an Omnibus continuing resolution. The 1.3 trillion dollar spending agreement also includes language that codified Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar interpretation of the Dickey Rider in testimony on February 18, 2018, before the US House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee.[14] While the amendment itself remains, the language in a report accompanying the Omnibus spending bill clarifies that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention can, in fact, conduct research into gun violence.[15] It was signed into law by U.S. President Donald J. Trump on March 23, 2018.

 

 

Signed by the Great White Death, himself.

 

Get to researching.

[coltboostin]

It's a deterrent, if you think it's anything more than that you're fooling yourself.

)

 

You already provided one video that bunk'd itself on gaining entry (with no additional code) please tell me how anyone is getting into it without the code, without my biometric, when its in a hidden compartment and the other people in the home literally dont even know its there? :dumb:

 

 

Also more importantly- addressing the original issue-explain how IF my kid got their hands on this said gun that I did not fail as a parent if they go and shoot their classmates?

 

No one? You make it sound so simple, why isn't anyone trying it? Maybe in a red state where conservatives can do what they want? Like Texas, maybe.

 

Because people get arrested for physically disciplining their children, something that was common place a generation ago when school shootings where non existent. Because people (like you) seem to nothing can be done if you have a "hard" to deal with or mentally ill kid. Example A

Some kids are easier than others, and once we factor in mental illness, all bets on parenting are off.

After all, I'm told that all school shooters are ipso facto mentally ill. Can attentive parenting cure mental illness?

Of course not. .

.

 

 

Its not about "curing" mental illness. Its about identifying the most likely individuals. 1) Trying to help them and the parents mitigate risk 2) helping the child cope with their own issues and become a productive member

of society. Sure, no one wants there kids label. No one wants their kids to be different. No one wants to know their kids have potential for these acts....but pretending they are normal and hoping nothing will happen-or begin a parent that thinks they can do nothing about is IS being part of the problem.

[Orion]

JP, who is possibly the craziest dude on CR from an automotive standpoint, is coming across as a reasonably sane person. Dafuq is even happening in here?

[Geeto67]

Granted, it's Wikipedia, but I'm not reading in there where it explicitly bans research. It just says it can't be used to advocate or promote further gun control. Is it the funding that can't be used for advocacy, the research, or both?

 

I've discussed this before, but there are plenty of situations in politics where legislation, budget amendments, executive orders, etc....can have a "chilling effect" on certain actions without banning that specific action. This is one of those things. It specifically bans funding research that can be used for advocating gun control legislation. Because of this, nobody has funded it, and the CDC even when it has a budget surplus won't allocate it to this type of research because if the research does lead to gun control legislation after the fact (even if not intended initially) - they will have to pay the money back.

 

This is the strategy of politics most people don't usually see or understand, but it's pretty common, and used in every area from free speech restrictions to federal spending.

 

 

Signed by the Great White Death, himself.

 

Get to researching.

 

You understand that this has no real practical effect right? The statement you highlight...this one:

 

the Omnibus spending bill clarifies that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention can, in fact, conduct research into gun violence.[15] It was signed into law by U.S. President Donald J. Trump on March 23, 2018.

 

...is kind of just a "captain obvious" statement of fact without any legal effect to overturn or broaden the scope of the Dickey Amendment. Yes, it is a true statement of fact that the CDC can conduct research...as long as it doesn't get used to write gun legislation. Show me what part of the above statement removes that restriction? I'll save you the time - it doesn't.

 

here, read this, I'm tired of typing: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/03/23/596413510/proposed-budget-allows-cdc-to-study-gun-violence-researchers-skeptical

[greg1647545532]

I wish I knew.

 

I guess I'm just trying to make the point that Americans are culturally different than other countries in many different ways, not just guns. So what is it about our culture that causes people to want to do this, more so than many other developed nations? Why are our people going down this path towards mass violence when others are not? Are the guns making them evil, or were they molded into this evil thing throughout their life and then chose a gun as their tool of choice? And if it's the latter, what is it that's molding them this way?

 

And I realize this isn't a single answer solution.

 

There's an episode of the Simpsons where Homer sees an ad for clown college. He scoffs at the idea but it sticks in his brain, coming up over, and over, until finally he abruptly stands up at the dinner table and says, "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!"

 

People claim, "If someone really wants to get a gun, they'll find a way to get a gun," which is true on a superficial level. It's like, if kids really want to smoke, they'll find a way to get cigarettes, which is also true. But when I was 18 I didn't have some intense desire to start smoking. I had lots of friends who smoked, and obviously smoking was everywhere, even in the late 90s, so I thought about it a lot, but it's not like I did it to fit in, or be a part of the cool kids. I picked up cigarettes because literally one day it occurred to me that I could just walk into a store and buy a pack of cigarettes, and nobody could stop me. They were just right there, the forbidden fruit, at every store I went to, and all I had to do was shell out $3. So I did, and I spent a few years as a semi-casual smoker until they were banned indoors everywhere I went and I lost interest.

 

If I were 18 again I doubt I'd pick up smoking, because at least where I am, cigarettes aren't a staple of every meal and every night out. I just don't think about cigarettes anymore.

 

Unlike you, I don't think there's anything unique to American culture that makes us more violent. I don't think guns make people evil, whatever that means.

 

I do think that guns, like cigarettes to me in 1998, are everywhere. I think a lot of people, present company likely included, probably have a similar thought in their late teens and early 20s. "I could just go out right now and buy a gun. I could totally just do it, and nobody could stop me. I have a few hundred bucks I could spare, and then I'd have a gun, and it'd be awesome." And so they do. And then, "I could even go out and buy a motherfucking AR-15, and then I'd have that too. And, I mean, it's goddamn AR-15, it's pretty badass." I don't think there are millions of Americans who would do anything to get their hands on a gun, I think there's a lot of people who have them because their parents have them, or because their friends talk about them all the time, or they just like Stallone movies. And there's a certain appeal, the forbidden fruit, the two 45s like John Woo, or the AR-15 like GI Joe.

 

Unrelated to the above, I think there's young boys or young men who are depressed, or angry, or both. I think, like a lot of suicidal ideations, they start thinking about school shootings because it's part of our culture. Some kids plan their suicides to get back at their parents. It's not a stretch that some would plan their suicides to get back at their peers. And the pieces just need to be nearby to make it all start to fall into place. "I could get the shotgun from dad's closet, and the .38 from his drawer. I could totally do that, and nobody could stop me. I could just do it and go out in a blaze of glory."

 

So yeah, I honestly think the only difference between the US and the rest of the world is that when American kids go postal, there's often guns nearby that they can incorporate into their plans, and in the rest of the world, they come up with some other, less notable plan that involves killing fewer people (or none at all).

 

 

When I was a kid growing up in the suburbs, there weren't any more or any fewer gun restrictions than there are now. There weren't any more or any fewer violent or suicidal people (actually, probably more of both). The only difference is that none of us thought about guns. People in rural America didn't think about guns because guns were just a tool for hunting. People in the suburbs didn't think about guns, because none of us had guns. Didn't need 'em. People didn't shoot up schools for the same reason people don't pick up smoking now -- because it just wasn't a thing that we saw every day, and it wasn't a thing that anyone could start picturing themselves doing.

 

That's my 2 cents.

[Geeto67]

Because people get arrested for physically abusing their children, something that was common place a generation ago

 

Fixed it for you.

 

There has never been any proof that beating a kid improves their behavior. There is plenty of proof that beating a kid causes them to continue a cycle of violence with subsequent generations and society at large.

 

when school shootings where non existent.

 

How many generations are we talking about? Would you say 20 years is a generation? because school shootings have been declining since the 1990's. How about 30 years? Because even though the number spiked in the 1990's it's still lower than it has been since the 1980's. School shootings have been happening regularly since the 19th century, so I would not say they have been "non-existent".

 

...but pretending they are normal and hoping nothing will happen-or begin a parent that thinks they can do nothing about is IS being part of the problem.

 

Well I agree with this to a point, but you can't just say the government should do nothing because it is all on the parents. It's a combination of things - people can work harder to be better parents, schools can improve (usually through funding so vote for politicians who spend money on schools), and some legislative restrictions can make things better. Saying it's one thing and not another is :dumb:

[greg1647545532]

You already provided one video that bunk'd itself on gaining entry (with no additional code) please tell me how anyone is getting into it without the code, without my biometric, when its in a hidden compartment and the other people in the home literally dont even know its there? :dumb:

 

All I'm going to say is that I've spent the last 2 days boning up on information security practices to get recertified, and in the industry, your ideas about physical security would be considered naive. No system is considered impenetrable, it's all just a deterrent, even on military bases. I don't know enough about your setup to tell you the exact vulnerabilities, but no security expert is going to ever pat you on the back and say that you've cracked the code for good.

 

 

Also more importantly- addressing the original issue-explain how IF my kid got their hands on this said gun that I did not fail as a parent if they go and shoot their classmates?

 

Agree to disagree? I've already said it depends on the specifics, and you've sworn up and down that you have an incredible secure system that only a determined killer could possibly circumvent. If you believe with 100% certainty that no child of yours could ever grow up to be a determined killer, then I guess you're right, but I'm not Nostradamus and I wouldn't make such a profoundly confident prediction about even my own kids.

 

If people do a reasonably good job of being parents and make a reasonable effort at securing their firearms, I don't see any reason to punish them for the unthinkable.

 

Because people get arrested for physically disciplining their children, something that was common place a generation ago when school shootings where non existent. Because people (like you) seem to nothing can be done if you have a "hard" to deal with or mentally ill kid. Example A

 

Give me a break. I don't even know how to address all of these nonsense strawman claims. I've wasted enough time on this.

[gillbot]

PS. Is my gun safe actually safe, or not? LOL

 

Educators are trained professionals, and are TRAINED to ID this shit. Some go to school longer than doctors and all require continuing education.

I am not a professional educator. I volunteer at my son's school pretty regularly. I can tell in 2 minutes which kids are a little off.

 

My son is 4.

 

When I was in High school, you can tell within 2 minutes which kids where a little off. In a week you know which kids where into weird shit. In 2 weeks you heard about the kid that bragged about trying to set a cat of fire.

 

Its not rocket science. We know who these kids are. No one just wants to step up and put a label on it.

 

At all stages of life people have a general understanding of what and who is normal. There is nothing wrong with being abnormal, however in the past the abnormal ones where Identified and handled pretty quickly. Now since we are society of fucking snowflakes, we have to treat everyone "equally". Identifying the red flags for kids that have this potential would be very easy with proper profiling. ALL of them are writing on social media, diaries, and have previous incidences that can be tracked. NONE of them come as a surprise.

 

 

 

 

All the guns used in this shooting were legal, and on no ones radar for "gun control". A simple pistol and small shot gun. Are you suggesting that all pistons should be turned in?

 

I’ve kept out of this thread, but here is where I’ll chime in. The above bolded is bullshit. Total BS.

 

At my sons old school, he was simply labeled a trouble maker. It started when he was in K and continued into age 6-7. We were told he is basically unteachable. We have battled with him and the school for years over this. He never wanted to complete assignments, disrupted class, textbook type behavior. Hated going, wanted to stay home and the works. Not one teacher said anything aside from snide comments about us as parents not working with our kid at home, special schools and etc. He was treated like an outcast and everyone could see why he wouldn’t want to go to school. Not one god damn teacher offered any guidance, help or suggested anything to us despite our pleas.

 

We moved. Boom, new school and on day fucking one a counselor (not a fucking teacher) pulled him aside and tested him with our permission. He has a speech issue, reading disorder and teachers never once saw it. Magically, he is doing excellent after working with this counselor. He just missed the gifted program, tests at a high school level and loves school. New school counselor picked up on it and now at age 8 he is a completely different kid. Likes school, wants to go and enjoys it.

 

My point in all of this is, no, the teachers can’t pick up on this. Judging by the teachers at our old school, they can barely pick up a Starbucks. Those teachers were barely out of college, no experience and basement pay. I’m not 100% faulting teachers. They are inundated with kids, parents and rules but to not listen to parents when we plead that here is a bigger issue and not help get us pointed to somewhere that we can help them is a failure of the system. You’ll read similar stories like this everywhere though. Bad kids do shit, parents try and plead for help yet nothing ever gets done. THAT is the fucking problem here. Kids feel cast aside because they basically are sometimes. Once labeled as a troublemaker, why bother to get out of that label if everyone believes it, right?

[greg1647545532]

Come on man, he's got a 4 year old and correctly sized up all of the bad kids in high school in 2 minutes, don't question him.

[coltboostin]

I’ve kept out of this thread, but here is where I’ll chime in. The above bolded is bullshit. Total BS.

At my sons old school, he was simply labeled a trouble maker. It started when he was in K and continued into age 6-7. We were told he is basically unteachable.

We moved. Boom, new school and on day fucking one a counselor (not a fucking teacher) pulled him aside and tested him with our permission. He has a speech issue, reading disorder and teachers never once saw it.

 

You actually just proved my point, on several levels.

 

1) To better illustrate my intention lets replace *Teacher* with *the education system* which include administrators, counselors...ect. The counselor ID'd the issue. In this case, they may have fixed it. They did their job. So, that's a win for the system.

 

2) As stated NO ONE wants their kid labeled or acknowledged as being different. Your initial complaint is that he was "labeled" a trouble maker. From your post, it seems like that was indeed an accurate label. That is the "what", but not the "why". Now, if he was making trouble because he has a LEARNING DISABILITY, that was not initially diagnosed, thats a fail on the original school. But at the end of the day, he's different, he needed help. And if the different kids don't get help...once they get to high school, as we have seen, things have potential to go sideways.

 

3) As stated, IT STARTS AT HOME. My wife or I will do homework with my kids every night. You as a parent (and all parents) I would hope do the same, along with interact with them daily, OBSERVE them in social situations...ect. Through all of this interaction, you as a parent were not able to identify a speech impediment, and reading disorder. Though all of this interaction, you may have failed to see this. We as parents have to be able to see when out kids need help.

 

 

. Once labeled as a troublemaker, why bother to get out of that label if everyone believes it, right?

 

 

No, that's not right. And as a parent its our job to make sure we do everything in our power to make it right. That's like telling a kid who's undersized "well kid, your small so your going to get beat up. Deal with it". LOL Common?! GTFO- its all starts at home!!!

[CRed05]

Americans are so full of self confidence, freedom and rights that it's never your responsibility or fault, it's always someone else's fault.

 

Go to any other country, sit at the airport help desk (baggage, rental cars, etc) and keep score of who complains, how loudly/politely they complain, and which nationality they're from.

[gillbot]

You actually just proved my point, on several levels.

 

1) To better illustrate my intention lets replace *Teacher* with *the education system* which include administrators, counselors...ect. The counselor ID'd the issue. In this case, they may have fixed it. They did their job. So, that's a win for the system.

 

2) As stated NO ONE wants their kid labeled or acknowledged as being different. Your initial complaint is that he was "labeled" a trouble maker. From your post, it seems like that was indeed an accurate label. That is the "what", but not the "why". Now, if he was making trouble because he has a LEARNING DISABILITY, that was not initially diagnosed, thats a fail on the original school. But at the end of the day, he's different, he needed help. And if the different kids don't get help...once they get to high school, as we have seen, things have potential to go sideways.

 

3) As stated, IT STARTS AT HOME. My wife or I will do homework with my kids every night. You as a parent (and all parents) I would hope do the same, along with interact with them daily, OBSERVE them in social situations...ect. Through all of this interaction, you as a parent were not able to identify a speech impediment, and reading disorder. Though all of this interaction, you may have failed to see this. We as parents have to be able to see when out kids need help.

 

 

 

 

 

No, that's not right. And as a parent its our job to make sure we do everything in our power to make it right. That's like telling a kid who's undersized "well kid, your small so your going to get beat up. Deal with it". LOL Common?! GTFO- its all starts at home!!!

You can spin it to fit if it makes you feel better.

 

Point is, if we didn’t move, my son was headed down a bad path and we tried everything we could as parents. Therapists, testing, recommendations, you name it. If we could get to it on our own as parents, we tried. None of the recommendations from outside the school were acknowledged and he was labeled in the school system as a trouble maker. Hose teachers didn’t give two shits nor could they pick up on anything. He was shoved aside so he didn’t care nor want to try. The new school gave him a fresh slate, they listened to us and the ball got rolling there. Don’t try to feed me more BS because the system failed once, and it is obviously failing with other kids.

 

Edit: not sure if you are implying that we didn’t try to work with him, but we sure as fuck did. We gave recommendations to the school on things to try when he would run into issues but they were ignored. We asked for him to be evaluated so it originated within the system and it was on record so his issues could be addressed but they were ignored. I always found it ironic when teachers would lecture us about education being reinforced at home, yet they wouldn’t listen to a damn thing we’d tell them. He’s our kid, we know him better than they did. The new school listens. Much better education system here and they seem to listen to outside sources, unlike the other school.

[wagner]

Americans are so full of self confidence, freedom and rights that it's never your responsibility or fault, it's always someone else's fault.

 

Go to any other country, sit at the airport help desk (baggage, rental cars, etc) and keep score of who complains, how loudly/politely they complain, and which nationality they're from.

 

Responsibility? Yeah, that concept went out the window in this country decades ago...

[o0n8]

Responsibility? Yeah, that concept went out the window in this country decades ago...

 

Thanks Baby Boomers!

[Geeto67]

Responsibility? Yeah, that concept went out the window in this country decades ago...

 

yeah....I'm pretty sure this country as a fucked up racial problem because a whole bunch of farmers and plantation owners didn't want to take responsibility for their farms, and then take responsibility for the people they enslaved to work those farms once freed....but you keep telling me how things were so much better in the past and people were more "personally responsible".

[wagner]

yeah....I'm pretty sure this country as a fucked up racial problem because a whole bunch of farmers and plantation owners didn't want to take responsibility for their farms, and then take responsibility for the people they enslaved to work those farms once freed....but you keep telling me how things were so much better in the past and people were more "personally responsible".

 

This makes no sense at all but if it makes you feel smart let that freak flag fly high :dumb:

[Geeto67]

This makes no sense at all but if it makes you feel smart let that freak flag fly high :dumb:

 

Enlighten me then....when exactly "decades ago" did you think people took more personal responsibility than they do now?

 

Most Major events in American History you can always find a group that is "dodging" personal responsibility for things - so I have to ask, if you think things were so much better in the past than they are now, when exactly in the past are you referencing? It's can't be the eras of wild west, the great depression, WWII, Vietnam...etc because they all have it.

 

It makes no sense to you because this idea that we somehow took more personal responsibility in the past then we do now is a nostalgic lie, and you would rather believe the lie and be cynical about humanity than see the good in people and the forward march of society.

[greg1647545532]

It amuses me to no end that, very often, the people I hear bitch about "kids these days" being soft, entitled, easily offended, etc, are themselves "kids." What they're actually saying is, "My generation is bad, but I am an exception. I'm better than my peers."

 

It's literally an elitist viewpoint, from people who then complain about elitism in politics.

 

Boggles the mind.

 

 

Rule of thumb, anyone who complains about "kids these days" can be readily dismissed without further thought.

[greg1647545532]

So Wagner, do you share your generation's lack of personal responsibility, or are you better than the rest?

[wagner]

So Wagner, do you share your generation's lack of personal responsibility, or are you better than the rest?

 

I was raised to take responsibility for my own actions so that makes me better I guess?

[greg1647545532]

So you won life's participation trophy and you think you're special because of it. Ironic.

[coltboostin]

You can spin it to fit if it makes you feel better.

.

 

There is no spin. I meant the school faculty. Its as simple as that. Saying "teachers" as a singulatiry is like saying its the service writers fault when your oil drain plug backs out and your motor locks up. Neither makes sense.

 

Its still crazy that you are cursing the same people that ended up helping you. Again, you said you put a lot of time info finding a solution for your problem child. You did your job. Your proving my point that it starts at home.

 

Some other parents may have written him of, and the kid may have reverted to a darker place where these "shooters" come from. Im not saying your kid would shoot up a school, Im just saying if you let it go, this is where it starts. But, you did your job.

[Gergwheel1647545492]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/021/521/DumpsterFire2.jpg

[Geeto67]

I was raised to take responsibility for my own actions

 

So do you think you are the only one?

 

so that makes me better I guess?

 

I guess so.

 

Look there is nothing wrong with being proud of how you were raised, where it gets dicey is thinking you are some how the exception to the rule rather than the rule without proof.

[o0n8]

There is no spin. I meant the school faculty. Its as simple as that. Saying "teachers" as a singulatiry is like saying its the service writers fault when your oil drain plug backs out and your motor locks up. Neither makes sense.

 

Its still crazy that you are cursing the same people that ended up helping you. Again, you said you put a lot of time info finding a solution for your problem child. You did your job. Your proving my point that it starts at home.

 

Some other parents may have written him of, and the kid may have reverted to a darker place where these "shooters" come from. Im not saying your kid would shoot up a school, Im just saying if you let it go, this is where it starts. But, you did your job.

 

Saying all teachers or "school faculty" is the same is like saying all Banks are the same. They serve the same purpose but execute differently.

 

So in gillbot's case he did his job because he was able to move his child into another school district? What about the kids that can't move districts? They must have bad parents then right?