Political Fart Noise Part II

[Geeto67]

 

And i will disagree with you on a point, the black community DOES need to take responsibility in cleaning itself up. Just as the white trash community need to clean itself up.

 

I swear, the irony writes itself.

 

here let me fix this for you.....

 

 

the black community DOES need to take responsibility in cleaning itself up. Just as the white community need to clean itself up.

You are part of that community, stop dodging your responsibility. Or rather, how about you just stop continuing to be blind to the racist rhetoric you support and stop becoming outraged at ones you feel are directed to you but really aren't really because you've made some little excuse as to why this doesn't apply to you (I'm not white trash and therefore not my problem). either it is all bad, or none of it is - you can't really cherry pick your racism.

[Mace1647545504]

You're right there is racist ideas flowing on the net daily..both black and white.

 

Yes rush is a dick head. You ask how do i know? Well years ago a couple of guys I worked with listed to him and fox news religiously. So one day while heading somewhere I thought that I'd listen to rush. PEEEWHOO how could anyone listen to that crap!! I turned it off after about 10 minutes as I could stomach no more.

 

But since then when I listen to the main stream media i hear the same thing but left leaning. I will say the main stream media is more eloquent and less abrasive but but you can hear it none the less is major left leaning. And I am getting to the same point with 4,6,and 10 that I was at in 10 minutes of rushing.

[Geeto67]

 

And i will disagree with you on a point, the black community DOES need to take responsibility in cleaning itself up.

 

Do you not think this is a racist statement? If so, why not?

[greg1647545532]

To me, though, that's where the bias lies. People hate on CNN but were silent about Fox pulling the same shit for a decade. People hate on anti-white racism but brush off anti-everything-else bigotry as being a few bad apples. People complain about antifa like it represents mainstream liberal thinking, but the KKK is just background noise that we should all ignore.

 

Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't hate on anti-white racism, CNN, or antifa, but when you see the same drums getting beat over and over and over again -- antifa, immigrants, and fake news, oh my! -- you take a step back and you see the pattern of manipulation designed to make people stupid. IMHO the people saying the KKK is bad, Fox News is bad, and homophobia is bad are at least doing so in good faith.

[CRed05]

I'm not saying we shouldn't hate on anti-white racism

 

I'd think someone who isn't a racist would hate all kinds of racism.

 

Racism is racism my friend. Trying to undo past racist acts by more racist acts is only making things worse.

[greg1647545532]

Uhh, isn't that exactly what I said?

[Mace1647545504]

Do you not think this is a racist statement? If so, why not?

 

No it isn't. You have to help yourself get out of the situation you are in. I'll bet you've never been to an inner city school. The majority of kids there feel it isn't cool to learn so they refuse to better their position in society.

You are a racist to feel my statement is racist AND like the main stream media DID NOT quote my whole statement.

[Geeto67]

No it isn't. You have to help yourself get out of the situation you are in.

 

Ok, but do you realize you are ascribing a non racial characteristic to a particular race?

 

crime isn't exclusive to black people, but your statement presumes that it is

 

Crime isn't caused by race, but your statement sets it up as a race based issue.

 

you are literally demonstrating the blindness and double standard greg, and I and others are pointing out to you, and even still you double down here and refuse to hear it.

 

I'll bet you've never been to an inner city school. The majority of kids there feel it isn't cool to learn

 

Well if the history I was being taught was mostly about how I am inferior to other races, I wouldn't be that thrilled to be in school either. Also if my teachers were apathetic, underpaid, incompetent, and generally not engaged I don't know that i'd have much enthusiasm.

 

But again, that's not a function of race, that's a function of poverty. You'll see the same thing in a school that is predominantly white and poor, or hispanic and poor. The subtext of what you are saying here is black people are lazy even as students, and it baffles me that you don't see that.

 

BTW, I have been to many "inner city" schools, and there are some that get a little bit of funding and improve dramatically, esp if they have a diverse ethnic population. If only hundreds of years of racism in real estate didn't systematically create ethnic ghettos....

 

 

so they refuse to better their position in society.

You are a racist to feel my statement is racist AND like the main stream media DID NOT quote my whole statement.

 

It's not racist to point out that some of the things you say have very racist subtext that you are not seeing. I'm not doing it because you are white, I'm doing it because on their face and in the context of history the things you write have embedded racism you refuse to see. I am just tying to understand why you refuse to see it in those things and yet it's plain as day when some crazy white chick says it about white people. You don't have a problem spotting it then, so why do you have a problem now?

 

What do you think I left out in not quoting your whole statement will somehow change the context of what you are saying. I left out portions of quoting you because I wanted to focus on the core statement and the other parts weren't really relevant and were a distraction. What do you think I am missing by leaving extraneous information?

 

And by the way, you can't really cry out of context when your whole statement is literally just a few posts earlier .

[CRed05]

I'll share this because maybe some of you will find it interesting.

 

Another forum I'm on, a sports forum that consists mainly of people from the UK, Aus, NZ, SA and some US and Canada, just today had this same topic come up because of the following article:

 

'It's okay to be white' signs posted around Halifax

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/okay-to-be-white-halifax-1.4887174

 

Statement from dude who put up the signs:

https://www.eurocanadian.ca/2018/11/its-not-okay-to-be-white-in-canadas.html?m=1

 

Side note: People in the UK, particular those who use Sky as their ISP cannot see the 2nd link because Sky blocks sites that contain "weapons, gore and hate". Feels good man to live in a country where ISPs can't tell you what you can and cannot see.

[Geeto67]

 

Statement from dude who put up the signs:

https://www.eurocanadian.ca/2018/11/its-not-okay-to-be-white-in-canadas.html?m=1

 

Did you read this manifesto? It takes a hard right into crazy town pretty quickly alleging diversity is ethnic cleansing, and other white supremacy tropes and mis-characterizations of diversity and multiculturalism.

 

I think it is interesting purely because it is a look at the reaction people seem to be having to progress. Nothing in here is new, novel, interesting on its own, or remotely based in fact, but it's interesting to see how twisted people's fear can make their logic. I can understand it, but I can't agree with it or think the people who do are good people (because they are not).

 

I genuinely feel sorry for people who think like this, not only because it is misguided and based in fear more than fact, but also that it makes them do horrible things and compromise their values.

[Mace1647545504]

Kerry, I can't even debate with you as you are so blind to anything but your own ideas.

 

Your view is from a very biased point of view.

 

The thing about the extreme left which you are the CEO of , is everyone else is a racist, sexist, mysogynist, and every ist that is anti-social.

 

Good luck in kerry world and give my regards to all there

[CRed05]

Did you read this manifesto? It takes a hard right into crazy town pretty quickly alleging diversity is ethnic cleansing, and other white supremacy tropes and mis-characterizations of diversity and multiculturalism.

 

Well he's saying that forced diversity is ethnic cleansing. He might be reaching for it, but is he wrong?

 

Ethnic cleansing: "the attempt to create ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups. Ethnic cleansing sometimes involves the removal of all physical vestiges of the targeted group through the destruction of monuments, cemeteries, and houses of worship."

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/ethnic-cleansing

 

I genuinely feel sorry for people who think like this, not only because it is misguided and based in fear more than fact, but also that it makes them do horrible things and compromise their values.

 

Perception is reality. If someone is in fear for their own well being, they will respond. Fear is being created, and it's not just a few crazies, it's being broadcasted on TV and pop culture.

[greg1647545532]

Well he's saying that forced diversity is ethnic cleansing. He might be reaching for it, but is he wrong?

 

Yes, he's wrong.

[Geeto67]

Kerry, I can't even debate with you as you are so blind to anything but your own ideas.

 

Your view is from a very biased point of view.

 

The thing about the extreme left which you are the CEO of , is everyone else is a racist, sexist, mysogynist, and every ist that is anti-social.

 

Good luck in kerry world and give my regards to all there

 

I am not calling you a racist at all, I am asking why you don't see some of the inherent racism in the statements? do you not believe they are there? or do it see it and just dismiss it as a lesser concern?

 

we aren't debating, I am asking you specific (and hard) questions about your particular viewpoint as a way of trying to understand it. What you say is obviously racist to other people but not you, why? what's the disconnect? Think of it more as an interview, and feel free to ask me why or how I see it when you don't.

[CRed05]

Yes, he's wrong.

 

Blocking or removing blacks from jobs = bad

Blocking or removing whites from jobs = good

 

Got it. Well should also immediately resign and make sure a non-white person replaces you. You wouldn't do that though, would you? No, because you're just in it for the Instagram likes.

[greg1647545532]

Blocking or removing blacks from jobs = bad

Blocking or removing whites from jobs = good

 

Got it. Well should also immediately resign and make sure a non-white person replaces you. You wouldn't do that though, would you? No, because you're just in it for the Instagram likes.

 

I just said he's wrong that forced diversity is the same as ethnic cleansing. What's this post all about?

[Geeto67]

Well he's saying that forced diversity is ethnic cleansing. He might be reaching for it, but is he wrong?

 

Greg beat me to it but, yes he is wrong.

 

Ethnic cleansing: "the attempt to create ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups. Ethnic cleansing sometimes involves the removal of all physical vestiges of the targeted group through the destruction of monuments, cemeteries, and houses of worship."

 

The goal of diversity, as well as it's practical effect isn't to create an ethnically homogeneous society - it's actually the opposite. Its to create an ethnically diverse society that benefits from multiple viewpoints and to introduce more culture into a society within the basic framework of laws that exist. No one culture is replacing any other culture, the goal is to have both cultures coexist without negative impact and for everyone to benefit from the shared information and viewpoints. what happened before with slavery and segregation, was actual ethnic cleansing, undoing the harm of generations of suppression and ethnic population control isn't.

 

When Tim and the other loonies say "people coming here need to adapt, assimilate, and embrace american culture" they are trying to create a homogeneous society because they are imposing a cultural requirement on top of the basic laws of the country. That's the language you need to be scared of, because that is the type of thinking that leads to this "white people are under attack" nonsense and white supremacy manifestos like the one we are discussing.

 

Perception is reality. If someone is in fear for their own well being, they will respond. Fear is being created, and it's not just a few crazies, it's being broadcasted on TV and pop culture.

 

Just because it is fear based doesn't mean it is rational. Right now there is a lot of irrational fear mongering going on and it's causing some people to take leave of their senses. the hitchhiker's guide said it best: "Don't Panic". Be level headed and pragmatic and chances are a "caravan" of vulnerable people marching on foot won't have you screaming at the top of your lungs "they took our jobs". Calling diversity "ethnic cleansing" is not a rational conclusion to anything, unless you believe that white culture is the only culture and should be left untainted (which our manifesto writer does because he explicitly says so).

 

 

Blocking or removing blacks from jobs = bad

Blocking or removing whites from jobs = good

Except that is not what is happening. That's what people irrationally fear is happening but it's not based in any real world scenario in the US that is legal. It's the boogeyman.

[CRed05]

I just said he's wrong that forced diversity is the same as ethnic cleansing. What's this post all about?

 

Maybe I read a little more into your response than intended, apologies if I did, but here's the direct quote from Canada poster guy, that's what I'm referring to.

 

"That white people "giving up power" involves reducing the proportion of white people in business organizations and government (mandatory enforced "diversity") [Note: This is ethnic cleansing.]"

[greg1647545532]

Yeah, calling that ethnic cleansing is pretty fucking whackadoo, and is an insult to cultures that were actually ethnically cleansed, like native Americans. But it's also pretty standard white supremacist garbage. Which is the whole problem with those stupid signs. How are you supposed to react to white supremacist trolls? I'm not sure, but there sure as shit not on my side.

[Geeto67]

Maybe I read a little more into your response than intended, apologies if I did, but here's the direct quote from Canada poster guy, that's what I'm referring to.

 

"That white people "giving up power" involves reducing the proportion of white people in business organizations and government (mandatory enforced "diversity") [Note: This is ethnic cleansing.]"

 

yeah you are misreading/reading too much into that.

 

Nobody is losing their jobs legally because of "diversity". His entire premise is built on the fallacy that it is the natural order that white people are just more qualified for open positions at a company.

 

What he fails to grasp is that the reason there is a disproportionate number of white people in business (which he doesn't think is disproportionate) is the direct result of ethnic cleansing, and the purpose of diversity hiring programs is to give incentive to companies to hire qualified minorities who would otherwise not be considered for the position due to their race.

 

Other than a few misguided individuals when diversity programs were first introduced decades ago, nobody is being forced to take an unqualified individual for any position - but his whole argument rests on the assumption that diversity programs do exactly that in their singular aim of replacing white people in the "the business world".

 

Greg is 100% right - it's white supremacy whackadoo garbage. I'm just curious, why do you not think it is? What's the thing you hang your hat on that gives it credibility?

[Geeto67]

How are you supposed to react to white supremacist trolls? I'm not sure, but there sure as shit not on my side.

 

I advocate a swift kick to the nuts. Or this:

 

 

I mean, I am not going to because...pacifist....but, I could seriously watch that all day on youtube.

[Rustlestiltskin]

http://i66.tinypic.com/nbd8qc.jpg

[CRed05]

Nobody is losing their jobs legally because of "diversity". His entire premise is built on the fallacy that it is the natural order that white people are just more qualified for open positions at a company.

 

Not legally in the US, not yet. But this kind of thinking/talk is exactly how you reach that outcome. You know how to boil a frog right? You don't throw it in a pot of hot water cause it will jump right out. You put it in water he's comfortable with and then slowly turn up the heat.

 

Never does he say that white people are naturally more qualified for an open position at a company. I'd say he's arguing to hire based on merit alone, not to hire with the goal to create diversity.

 

What he fails to grasp is that the reason there is a disproportionate number of white people in business (which he doesn't think is disproportionate) is the direct result of ethnic cleansing, and the purpose of diversity hiring programs is to give incentive to companies to hire qualified minorities who would otherwise not be considered for the position due to their race.

 

No one can deny that in the past minorities in this country were faced with laws that prevented them from being in certain positions. How long ago was that? How many people going through the employment process today has ever faced those kinds of laws? How many people alive today have gone through that? To use your words, nobody is legally losing their jobs because of "diversity".

 

Other than a few misguided individuals when diversity programs were first introduced decades ago, nobody is being forced to take an unqualified individual for any position - but his whole argument rests on the assumption that diversity programs do exactly that in their singular aim of replacing white people in the "the business world".

 

When there's a quota or an incentive to hire someone because of their race, focus shifts off of qualification and onto race. It's also not a matter of hiring someone who is UNqualified, but a matter of not hiring the person that is the most qualified, and that is racial discrimination. Not to mention bad for society. You could've had the best doctor operating on you, instead, you got the best person who wasn't white. Could the best one be non-white? Sure, but there is one way to guarantee you always get the best, and that's to hire on merit.

 

Greg is 100% right - it's white supremacy whackadoo garbage. I'm just curious, why do you not think it is? What's the thing you hang your hat on that gives it credibility?

 

I'm saying Ol Greg is wrong. It's not white supremacy, it's someone who's tired of people shitting on his race. He's not saying anything about any other race, it's similar to BLM. BLM said, stop fucking thinking all black people suck, now this guy is saying stop thinking all white people suck.

 

I hang my hat on the fact that I believe in equality for all, no matter your race or religion, but your character and ability. I hang my hat on the fact that I've seen what he describes become law.

[greg1647545532]

I'm saying Ol Greg is wrong. It's not white supremacy, it's someone who's tired of people shitting on his race. He's not saying anything about any other race

 

If the guy's not a white supremacist then he's doing his argument a disservice by using the language of white supremacists. I have no patience for that, because very few racists come out and say they're racist anymore. They've learned to use coded language, like "we must secure a future for our children". A seemingly innocuous statement, right? But also 8 of the 14 words. In sorry, but white genocide is a very popular talking point in white supremacist literature, and if this guy didn't want me to think he's one of them he shouldn't be talking like that. Maybe you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not.

[Geeto67]

Not legally in the US, not yet. But this kind of thinking/talk is exactly how you reach that outcome. You know how to boil a frog right? You don't throw it in a pot of hot water cause it will jump right out. You put it in water he's comfortable with and then slowly turn up the heat.

 

this type of thinking is also how you fear monger.

 

Never does he say that white people are naturally more qualified for an open position at a company. I'd say he's arguing to hire based on merit alone, not to hire with the goal to create diversity.

 

He doesn't explicitly say it but the premise doesn't hold true without it.

 

Without oversight, there is no hiring based on merit alone so you need some sort of program.

 

I don't like it any more than you do, because it is a band-aid fix and not fixing a broken system, but hiring based on merit alone means that the crooked system will naturally disadvantage minority qualified applicants. It's a band aid fix for sure, but keep in mind - this kind of logic is how white supremacy worked in the Jim crow era. If you can't explicitly discriminate based on race - find a neutral factor that yields the same outcome and do that. It's called disparate impact and it continues to be the primary tool of intentional racial discrimination today.

 

 

No one can deny that in the past minorities in this country were faced with laws that prevented them from being in certain positions. How long ago was that?

 

Ongoing, as in it still happens today.

 

How many people going through the employment process today has ever faced those kinds of laws? How many people alive today have gone through that? To use your words, nobody is legally losing their jobs because of "diversity".

 

All of them.

 

 

When there's a quota or an incentive to hire someone because of their race, focus shifts off of qualification and onto race. It's also not a matter of hiring someone who is UNqualified, but a matter of not hiring the person that is the most qualified, and that is racial discrimination. Not to mention bad for society. You could've had the best doctor operating on you, instead, you got the best person who wasn't white. Could the best one be non-white? Sure, but there is one way to guarantee you always get the best, and that's to hire on merit.

 

Actually again this is untrue, and I don't think you know how it works. It is illegal to make a hiring decision based on race. "Affirmative action" only applies to govern't entities and contractors and higher education - and the focus is more on recruiting and managing the existing workforce to eliminate favoritism.

 

Diversity hiring in private companies is voluntary, and again they can't use race as a hiring tactic, but they can evaluate their existing workforce and hiring practices to figure out why they aren't attracting diverse qualified candidates. this includes being more flexible about the job position (hours, WFH, child care, etc), and targeted recruiting. Remember, companies that do this want a diverse work force, they aren't being "forced" to take anybody they don't want to hire.

 

but tell me again how companies are being forced to take the lesser qualified individual against their will - it makes a nice campfire story.

 

 

I'm saying Ol Greg is wrong. It's not white supremacy, it's someone who's tired of people shitting on his race. He's not saying anything about any other race, it's similar to BLM. BLM said, stop fucking thinking all black people suck, now this guy is saying stop thinking all white people suck.

 

It's white supremacy, and it's posted on a known white supremacy blog. It has all the hall marks, it's based on incorrect information, and it uses the same fear mongering tactics and has the same agenda. Greg's not wrong about this, and I get given your context of being south african how you can be understanding of it, but I don't know why you keep making excuses for what is clearly white supremacy in the context of america.

 

I hang my hat on the fact that I believe in equality for all, no matter your race or religion, but your character and ability. I hang my hat on the fact that I've seen what he describes become law.

 

then stop making excuses for white supremacist propaganda and advancing a white supremacist agenda.

 

I will give you this little gift though: There is one way in which white people are under attack. Culturally, we have not done enough to root out and eradicate white supremacy within our own ranks. We make excuses for it like you have done above, we allow people to make statements that "black people are lazy and that is why they haven't improved" or "the black community needs to account for it's criminals" and don't readily call it out as racism, and we let people use coded words to rail against programs and groups that promote diversity, unity, and equality. We pretend like social conservatism doesn't have the ongoing dog whistle of racism running through almost every policy, and that conservative politicians aren't pandering and stoking the fires of white fear. It's a real fucking problem, and because of it, and because of an administration that emboldens them, we are having to be held account for it as racist shitbags this this guy in Canada make themselves more public.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Geeto67