Health Care

[Lost]

It is worth a try.

[Rod38um]

I've always had a problem with how they accept a lower amount from an insurance company for the same service they charge an uninsured person full rate for. I see it all the time with my insurance, I see what they accept and then when the insurance stops paying..... the rate goes thru the roof for me.....

[SAMBUSA]

[Disclaimer]

I've always had a problem with how they accept a lower amount from an insurance company for the same service they charge an uninsured person full rate for. I see it all the time with my insurance, I see what they accept and then when the insurance stops paying..... the rate goes thru the roof for me.....

C'est la vie... that's capitalism, deal with it. At least you can sleep well knowing you got the best care in the world, since the quality of care is proportional to the out of pocket costs.

Wow, when you read that, like, how I wrote it, you can't see the sarcasm like I intended.

[Mikejr879]

Well Guys,

What is all the hype about... This reform is so overdue, just like the tax and SS reform. In my opinion the Heath care is most important. Why, because people Die! Answer me one question . Which western country besides us does Not have some sort of national program? Personally, out off all these programs I'd like to see the Single-Payer System (wiki). Free like the Fire and Police Dept! Then even Afghanistan*, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq*, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom

will envy us.

*Universal health coverage provided by United States war funding

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKI9be55N00 & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E07ZHWxT834

Edited August 13, 2009 by Mikejr879
how do you post a video?

[SAMBUSA]

C'est la vie... that's capitalism, deal with it. At least you can sleep well knowing you got the best care in the world, since the quality of care is proportional to the out of pocket costs.

Wow, when you read that, like, how I wrote it, you can't see the sarcasm like I intended.

The uninsured have every right to negotiate the price just like the insurance company does. But they rarely do just that. Why? Most uninsured people aren't gonna pay the bill anyway, so why bother negotiating a lower price?

[Disclaimer]

How often does anyone negotiate price AFTER they've used the service?

[SAMBUSA]

How often does anyone negotiate price AFTER they've used the service?

I doubt that someone in need of medical assistance really wants to negotiate prior to getting help.

Gunshot victim rushed into surgery........"Wait Doc, lets negotiate cost before you save my life. I might not be willing to pay what you want":rolleyes:

[Disclaimer]

Exactly my point.

[SAMBUSA]

My point is that the uninsured can negotiate what is owed after care is given.

[Disclaimer]

How? The doctors/hospitals can just say... "No, we gave you care, we saved your life, this is the bill - this is what we charge everyone, why are you a special charity case?"

Nothing else that I can think of is negotiated AFTER the service is performed. You don't eat at a fancy restaurant and negotiate the bill after the meal, the dealership doesn't sign you over a title to a bike and then negotiate payment... this is done no where else, so why is negotiating payment AFTER the service is rendered acceptable in the health care industry?

[SAMBUSA]

It's acceptable because of the precedence set by the health care provider with the insurance companies.

[shittygsxr]

How? The doctors/hospitals can just say... "No, we gave you care, we saved your life, this is the bill - this is what we charge everyone, why are you a special charity case?"

Nothing else that I can think of is negotiated AFTER the service is performed. You don't eat at a fancy restaurant and negotiate the bill after the meal, the dealership doesn't sign you over a title to a bike and then negotiate payment... this is done no where else, so why is negotiating payment AFTER the service is rendered acceptable in the health care industry?

Go in for non-emergency treatment and ask them how much it will cost for care, they don't tell you before either.When you go into that fancy restaurant they tell you that the $50 steak is going to cost you $50 so there is no surprise.

All hospital bills should be hand delivered so that they can kick you directly in the nuts as you open the bill.

The first step in fixing the "problem" should be capping malpractice suits. Hopefully then malpractice insurance can get under control, then hospital bills should be able to drop significantly, ect ect

[Disclaimer]

Maybe hospitals should have a menu. Most would probably be a la carte.

I'd prefer to go to the hospitals that serve the medical smorgasbord for one low flat rate. The CiCi's Pizza of hospitals.

[shittygsxr]

Maybe hospitals should have a menu. Most would probably be a la carte.

I'd prefer to go to the hospitals that serve the medical smorgasbord for one low flat rate. The CiCi's Pizza of hospitals.

In other countries they do. As a matter of fact many Americans travel to Thailand for surgery. There as some VERY talented surgeons in Bangkok, probably because they have those little hands.

[InyaAzz]

The first step in fixing the "problem" should be capping malpractice suits. Hopefully then malpractice insurance can get under control, then hospital bills should be able to drop significantly, ect ect

AMEN!

In other countries they do. As a matter of fact many Americans travel to Thailand for surgery. There as some VERY talented surgeons in Bangkok, probably because they have those little hands.

And they give great hand jobs. R1 told me.

[Disclaimer]

We don't want Thailand healthcare though... it's socialized insurance.

[shittygsxr]

Maybe hospitals should have a menu. Most would probably be a la carte.

I'd prefer to go to the hospitals that serve the medical smorgasbord for one low flat rate. The CiCi's Pizza of hospitals.

So if you can't get a price before a procedure and you can't negotiate it afterwards then I guess we have to get the price during the procedure?

[shittygsxr]

do a search for "medical tourism"

[Rod38um]

Dont get me wrong, I hate the way things are billed right now and I may want some kind of change to slow things down a bit but I in no way want Obama care. I dont believe in the socialization of our country..... at all......... and before somebody starts saying what about roads, what about military......... thats not our economy..... if it falls under public infrastructure or protection, that does not make it exclusive to socialist countries. Capitalism is what made this country great. Everywhere socialism has been tried it has led to social, economic and moral decay. Not to mention a 2 tiered class.... the "haves" and the "have nots"

I in no way want socialised medicine as a matter of fact, I would like to see the non_profit status removed from many hospitals. Not for profits are constantly building on, adding stuff paying huge bonuses....wasting money just so they dont show a profit. The unwarranted expansion consumes even more money so more money is charged...... If they all have to earn a profit for a stock holder. they dont expand without need........ Just my .02

[InyaAzz]

I'm all for reform...I just haven't heard enough good things about Obama's plan to say I'm on board. I do know there is a lot of misinformation out there...a lot of FUD going on regarding the countries that currently have a version of his plan and the things his plan would entail. That being said, there ARE some downsides to these countries' plans as well (I guess all plans have downsides).

I think shitty hit it on the head....start with the malpractice lawsuits. That's probably the main reason costs are so high. I can't even imagine the costs associated with Dr's insurance. I personally know two Dr's that said 'Fuck it' and stopped practicing because of the rising costs.

[Disclaimer]

Everywhere socialism has been tried it has led to social, economic and moral decay. Not to mention a 2 tiered class.... the "haves" and the "have nots"

What's wrong with that? As long as you're on the "haves" team.

[Aerik]

...... and before somebody starts saying what about roads, what about military......... thats not our economy...

I'm gonna nitpick on this a little bit:

No manufactured or agricultural goods move in this country without roads. Even if it goes by rail, it needs a road to/ from the railyard. No workers commute without roads. Construction materials are moved on roads.

Blah, blah, blah, roads are most definitely tied to our economy.

And I could probably make the argument that the stability we gain from having a military does help the economy. Who would build a factory in a company that gets invaded every two years? And anyway, given that we spend more on the military than every other country in the world (up to half of our yearly federal discretionary budget), you better believe that has an effect on the economy.

Everything government does has some connection to the economy-- That's inherent in the system. Government maintains the framework in which our economy operates. It's the same reason why the 'free market' is a myth. Police and fire departments protect businesses, our court system allows businesses to form and be party to contracts (and enforces those contracts as well).

Taking all this into account, the debate isn't about whether government should be involved in the economy in some way (because it already is), but rather to what extent and in what areas? There are areas that lend themselves pretty readily to direct government intervention (such as police/fire), and others that function best when government stands back and just maintains some regulatory framework (like the health inspectors with restaurants).

Identifying and working toward the ideal balance between government and private industry has been an ongoing part of the American narrative since the country's founding-- sometimes we get it right, other times we get it wrong. Either way, it's a constantly-changing world, and that balance needs constant re-evaluation and debate.

Some of us think that having the government more widely involved in handling the payment for healthcare would provide a net benefit to this country, others do not.

Reasonable, civil debate is important and a necessary part of the process, either way.

[Rod38um]

Aerik, you misunderstood what I was saying there. I didnt mean those werent tied to the economy somehow or useful to it. they definitely are! Roads themselves are not a business, they are a conduit by which business operates and by which the public gets around. This conduit is vital

Military..... you cant have anything of value if you have no way of protecting it from those who would take it. The point being, niether one is a business in and of itself and the government is not competing with private interprise in those areas..... those 2 things allow business to flourish.

We need infrastructer,protection, laws...... basically limited government........ We do not need a government that is all things to all people........or even one that wants to be.

[Disclaimer]

Ok, should the military be private then? We can all outsource the protection of our homes and businesses to mini-Blackwater security firms... that will give us choice. Yay for capitalism!

Edited August 14, 2009 by JRMMiii