Lemon Law

[nochknstrps]

actually lemon law is an arbitration process against the manufacturer, not the store. it doesn't have anything at all to do with the store. my cousin just recieved a brand new ford f450 dually after arbitrtation with ford. kawaski will either send me an offer to sweep it under the rug, or take it to arbitration and risk the media getting involved. ohio lemon laws are very clear and easy to interpret. www.ohiolemonlaws.com. only thing is the outcomes aren't guarenteed. ohio law states they have to make it "right" with the consumer; which is a gray area and where the arbitrator comes into play.

motorsports is actually helping me put a case together by giving me all of my service orders because its more beneficial to them to keep me as a customer. kawasaki cant punish them for selling a lemon.

thats what I figured and thats what I think happened with those Zx 6s

[Moto-Brian]

+1 interested to know this as well.

Unfortunately Kawasaki is also the worst company to work with on warranty issues like this. The Kawi rep for central ohio is the worst dealer rep I've ever even heard of, and his higher-ups don't care. The same attitude persists throughout the service side on warranty claims as well.

Collect as much documentation about the issue as possible and develop a solid timeline of events of when what broke and what actions were taken to fix it. Good luck with everything, keep us posted.

Wow, you're pretty jadded, huh? First of all, depending on how the DEALER handles it, Kawasaki is probably one of the BEST companies to work with. I came from a dealership of 6 years and while racing for Kawasaki, I warrantied many an item that should have NEVER been warrantied. Just recently, my buddy's KX450 developed a crack in the case above the kick starter. The dealer we took it to did a good job of talking with Kaw and Kaw did the job, paid for parts AND labor and put it under what they call "good faith". They were great, he got his bike back in under 2 weeks and considering MX bikes have ZERO warranty implied or stated, that's saying something...

As far as a lemon law deal, you really need to explain more detail. Most the time, it is concerning the same issue or related issues in at least three different instances. Your dealer did a shit job of assisting you on this.

However, it very well could have been a deal where it was neglect or abuse. From the sounds of it "Stomping down on the shifter", you were a bit abusive to teh bike. Frustration or not, that isn't a way to do it.

I'd be amazed if they'd give you a 2008 and cash. I'd think they'd do a motor swap before anything. These aren't cars and aren't considered as important - bikes are pure hobby based machines. We all need cars in today's world to get back and forth to school, work, etc. Bikes are not in that class...

Keep us posted, but I'd doubt that much happens - or, at least what you're hoping for. Plus, with lawyer fees, etc., you'll be lucky to get anything positive from it. I'd go after the dealer since they worked on it 9 times and seemingly couldn't resolve it. You get what you pay for...

[Moto-Brian]

The Kawi rep for central ohio is the worst dealer rep I've ever even heard of, and his higher-ups don't care.

Tim is a GREAT guy, has ton of experience and works HARD for his shops. Again, it is more of a dealer issue than anything. From what I've heard, that shop isn't doing the greatest anyways and thus, the service they get may be reflected in that...

[Moto-Brian]

They have a major problem with the cams on thier 6s but they wont go public with it and make a recall (as of two months ago).

What is this "cam" issue you speak of? Been around a LOT of guys racing these 6s and nothing of the sort has been raised about cams. The bottom ends, yes, but for racers, they lossen them up and they last forever... No issues on cams... Care to elaborate?

[Putty]

So what's the deal here....You got new bike.....Lemon'd, what's up?? I really don't see them buying it back. Kawi will send a totally new motor before they give you a new bike or cash, IMO.. When I was ASK getting the recall work done...there was a 07 ZX6 there that some kid just bought and the inside of the clutch/motor shredded. They think the kid didn't know what he was doing and caused it, but there was no way to prove it...Instead of replacing this bike...they had the entire motor out and literally in a thousand pieces on a lift. Kawi was sending all new parts to fix it. Good luck though.

[flounder]

So what's the deal here....You got new bike.....Lemon'd, what's up?? I really don't see them buying it back. Kawi will send a totally new motor before they give you a new bike or cash, IMO.. When I was ASK getting the recall work done...there was a 07 ZX6 there that some kid just bought and the inside of the clutch/motor shredded. They think the kid didn't know what he was doing and caused it, but there was no way to prove it...Instead of replacing this bike...they had the entire motor out and literally in a thousand pieces on a lift. Kawi was sending all new parts to fix it. Good luck though.

Yeah I forgot about that.. funny thing is that when I was out there getting my second recall done, that bike was bike in again... "after the first engine rebuild"

[Chrisoh]

But if the vehicle is back enough times not even for the same reason it can be declared a Lemon and is generally replaced.

This is how the Lemon works. If a motor blows they fix it, then 2 months later it losses 2nd gear, then two months later it gets a oil leak, then 2 months later the ECU goes out.

Just when numbers of things happen is when the Lemon Law comes into play

[flounder]

But if the vehicle is back enough times not even for the same reason it can be declared a Lemon and is generally replaced.

This is how the Lemon works. If a motor blows they fix it, then 2 months later it losses 2nd gear, then two months later it gets a oil leak, then 2 months later the ECU goes out.

Just when numbers of things happen is when the Lemon Law comes into play

I think Lemon law also states that it has to happen to major components. (i.e, tranny, engine, computer, etc. )

[Chrisoh]

I have not read, but i know that is why it states the MFG must replace or buy back. If the Lemon Law is met.

Cause once the Warranty runs out then it could continue to have problems then the owner would be responsible.

[Moto-Brian]

I have not read, but i know that is why it states the MFG must replace or buy back. If the Lemon Law is met.

Cause once the Warranty runs out then it could continue to have problems then the owner would be responsible.

But that's the thing - his warranty ISN'T out and if the dealer does a shit job at getting Kawasaki to fix it, he's up the creek. He isn't going to get a 2008. He certainly isn't going to get money ON TOP of a new 2008. They'll send him a new motor before they do anything.

Plus, the issue now is they will most likely investigate the bike's warranty issues. I'm really amazed they haven't already. If the same bike is in service 9 times for either related or non related reasons, they typically send a service rep out and investigate. Again, I think lack of communication from the dealer prevented that from occurring. Plus, what the dealer may have stated to Kawasaki could be an issue.

I think the guy is over reacting a bit and went to the wrong dealer... Kawasaki is one of the BEST OEMs to deal with. They even call owners personally to say "sorry" about any issues that sometimes occur. They are one of the smallest OEMs and therefore one of the most personal...

[ousley99]

i never once said anything about the engine or "cam"... what are you talking about. its a transmission issue. im not going to argue about what im going to get, or whos at fault. im strictly reporting what my lawyer says. the lawyer fees are included in the settlement seperatly.

[Chrisoh]

But that's the thing - his warranty ISN'T out and if the dealer does a shit job at getting Kawasaki to fix it, he's up the creek. He isn't going to get a 2008. He certainly isn't going to get money ON TOP of a new 2008. They'll send him a new motor before they do anything.

Plus, the issue now is they will most likely investigate the bike's warranty issues. I'm really amazed they haven't already. If the same bike is in service 9 times for either related or non related reasons, they typically send a service rep out and investigate. Again, I think lack of communication from the dealer prevented that from occurring. Plus, what the dealer may have stated to Kawasaki could be an issue.

I think the guy is over reacting a bit and went to the wrong dealer... Kawasaki is one of the BEST OEMs to deal with. They even call owners personally to say "sorry" about any issues that sometimes occur. They are one of the smallest OEMs and therefore one of the most personal...

I am just stating that is why there is a Lemon Law. I still think if there are enough problems, within the warranty period then the law allows them to get a new vehicle. Most cars with problems within the warranty will have problems after is my Guess.

Yeah Ousley this discussion went well beyond your issues in the What if category.

[ousley99]

i called kawaski myself before i called the lawyer. the basicly said they didnt give a fuck. i used to work for ricart automotive and i know how dealer communication works with manufacturer.. read the lemon law link i posted. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A MAJOR COMPONENT, NOR DOES IT HAVE TO BE THE SAME PART. It is a very gray area as to define "lemon". any vehicle purchased new that can be titled and registered for street use as a means of transpertation.

[ousley99]

all i know is that ive had trouble with my transmission since week 1 off the showroom. the service manager is putting together all of the work orders for me to send in. even if i get screwed and all they do is replace the transmission, im still better off than i am now with a broken ass bike and almost a summer of lost riding.

[Moto-Brian]

i called kawaski myself before i called the lawyer. the basicly said they didnt give a fuck. i used to work for ricart automotive and i know how dealer communication works with manufacturer.. read the lemon law link i posted. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A MAJOR COMPONENT, NOR DOES IT HAVE TO BE THE SAME PART. It is a very gray area as to define "lemon". any vehicle purchased new that can be titled and registered for street use as a means of transpertation.

The car industry is vastly different than the motorcycle industry. You shouldn't have to talk to the OEM on your own. You were obviously upset and surely that didn't help your cause. Yes, Lemon Law takes into effect, but the deal is if the OEM does something about it each time and still things go wrong. In this case (maybe not enough info), the DEALER should be talking with Kawasaki. If that communication breaks down and nothing is done (Especially after 9 times), there is an issue.

Again, you'll be lucky to get a new motor. Trannies on motorcycles are a strange item. If it is a manufacture defect that caused your issue, then fine. If it is from abuse, you're hosed. Getting lawyers involved hasn't helped your case. Kawasaki will hold firm and you may not get a thing...

Good luck.

[Moto-Brian]

i never once said anything about the engine or "cam"... what are you talking about. its a transmission issue. im not going to argue about what im going to get, or whos at fault. im strictly reporting what my lawyer says. the lawyer fees are included in the settlement seperatly.

That was in reference to the other guy.... Not your case. He stated the 600s have a cam issue - they don't. They are having issues with either valves, buckets, guides, rod bearings, etc. Not cams. Taylor Knapp has lost two motors this year and Kaw covered them both 100%. They think it was a rod issue....

[Moto-Brian]

I am just stating that is why there is a Lemon Law. I still think if there are enough problems, within the warranty period then the law allows them to get a new vehicle. Most cars with problems within the warranty will have problems after is my Guess.

Yeah Ousley this discussion went well beyond your issues in the What if category.

But again, the tranny being serviced ot the issues related being serviced 9 times means the dealer didn't do things right. It should have been handled properly at the start... I really doubt the Lemon Law will come into effect here - I am going to wager they will call it wear and tear and offer a motor at best or actually, a new tranny and possibly cases if they were damaged.

[Putty]

i never once said anything about the engine or "cam"... what are you talking about. its a transmission issue. im not going to argue about what im going to get, or whos at fault. im strictly reporting what my lawyer says. the lawyer fees are included in the settlement seperatly.

I'm not saying what you won't get, but I have been around shops long enough to know it's not that easy to have a bike replaced. In '98 a friends ZX9r brand new was rebuilt several times after it kept throwing rods OUT the case. Never lemoned....just repaired time after time....Then in 01 he bought the first gsxr1000 and that sob was rebuilt several times for the oil return issue they were having. Not lemoned, but in a dealer damn near an entire summer..Good for you getting a new 07, cash, or an 08, but it won't be easy...Kaw has already told you take a hike. Which sucks!

[Moto-Brian]

I'm not saying what you won't get, but I have been around shops long enough to know it's not that easy to have a bike replaced. In '98 a friends ZX9r brand new was rebuilt several times after it kept throwing rods OUT the case. Never lemoned....just repaired time after time....Then in 01 he bought the first gsxr1000 and that sob was rebuilt several times for the oil return issue they were having. Not lemoned, but in a dealer damn near an entire summer..Good for you getting a new 07, cash, or an 08, but it won't be easy...Kaw has already told you take a hike. Which sucks!

In a nutshell what I said. He did the wrong thing calling Kaw on his own. Sure it wasn't 100% pleasant and I sorta understand... That's why the dealer should have went to bat for him. I have been in the motorcycle industry for over 13 years and the dealer can make or break the situation. Good dealer can get a shit load of things accomplished. A lazy dealer won't try too hard and when it comes time you really need something done, you take it into your own hands. By then, frustration sets in and it usually goes south quick.

Find another dealer who is more into you as a customer and knows street machines well. Who is that? For Kaw, good luck... I know Clinton County is a GREAT Kaw dealer, but they know MX VERY well. Not sure on the street side...

If you are stating you'd be happy with a new tranny at this point, I am left wondering why you'd settle? Attorney fees are going to be huge if you settle for what Kaw has probably stated they do anyways... Seems strange you'd make that comment...