Racing costs with the OMRL

[redkow97]

I put together a quick spreadsheet the other day to illustrate how spending a grand on an XR100 was really going to SAVE my wife money over the 2013 racing season. Though those here might be interested in the final numbers.

Bike purchase aside, the whole season costs less than $650 in fees.

That includes:

- Entry fees for two classes (4 heats) in each of the 9 race rounds that were scheduled in 2012

- one set of tires

- gate fees and insurance at the various tracks

- transponder rental (subtract $10 per round if you own one)

- $5/weekend race license (you can save $15 by just paying the $35 up front)

I didn't calculate fuel for travel, or how much you'll use at the track, but based on fees alone, your average cost per weekend is under $75, even if you don't buy the full season race license, and rent a transponder.

[Casper]

Let's see this spreadsheet!

[redkow97]

it's on my home computer, not work, but I can attach it later.

All you really need to know is on their website though: https://sites.google.com/site/midwestminiracing/register-online

I just did the math adding up the 2 classes, gate fees, transponder rental, insurance (where applicable), etc.

then I multiplied the weekend total for BeaveRun by 2, and the total for Circleville by 7, and added the two together.

My spreadsheet also had bike costs forecast, as far as purchase price, and potential upgrades.

XR's are available in good condition for $500 and up if you look hard enough, and $700-$900 all over the place... There are a lot of ugrades you CAN do, but the only modifications you really NEED are the XR80 front wheel (figure $100 or less) and then street tires (as little as $70/set if you buy scooter tires...)

Even if you upgrade the brake cable, brake shoes, springs, bars, and some other basic stuff, you can still keep the total cost under $1,000 with the right bike.

[redkow97]

As noted, I did not take travel costs into consideration, but given that both tracks OMRL frequents are approximately 100 miles from me, the travel expenses are somewhat negligible.

If I budget $1,000 per season, I can still grill steaks and drink fancy beer on Saturday nights after practice. (but I did not budget for practice days on their own. Figure $25-$35 for that as well)

[Hoblick]

Practice at CRP is $15 all day

[20thGix]

I have been debating on selling my boat and start doing this. Being that i have only had it out a few times the last few years i probably won't miss it.

[turnone]

OMRL is super cheap and loads of fun! I'm always suprised when people don't come out. Costs are so cheap. Riding the little bikes will make you a better and more skillful sport street rider.

I can't wait until 2013.

Biggie #72 OMRL

[Anden]

I have been debating on selling my boat and start doing this. Being that i have only had it out a few times the last few years i probably won't miss it.

Ditch boat and buy a trailer big enough for two bikes. So I can bum a ride.

[jbot]

OMRL is super cheap and loads of fun! I'm always suprised when people don't come out. Costs are so cheap. Riding the little bikes will make you a better and more skillful sport street rider.

I can't wait until 2013.

Biggie #72 OMRL

Do you think it would help with novice road racers in the 600 classes as well? I mean... I guess ANYTHING is going to help a novice racer but do the skills/experience gained transfer over well?

[turnone]

Do you think it would help with novice road racers in the 600 classes as well? I mean... I guess ANYTHING is going to help a novice racer but do the skills/experience gained transfer over well?

I absolutely think it helps with any two wheel riding you will do, but specifically in your case as well.

Bike control: Little bikes require you to maintain corner speed and brake deep into the corner while leaned over. Things I never had to do racing super twins 10 - 12 years ago.

Race craft: Little bikes allow you to get comfortable passing and being passed along with racing close to others. Things you will need to do on the big bikes. Hardest thing I found when I started racing big bikes was how close you would be to others at speed. Little bikes allow you to get comfortable with this at more safe speeds. You will probably still feel weird when you get bumped as someone goes up the inside, etc. You will learn to setup and execute a pass against multiple riding styles.

Race prep: Little racing or big racing, you still need to learn to bring a bike that is ready to the track, have spares, tools, know how, etc. to make you race day enjoyable. Getting ready for little racing is not much different than big racing. Just cheaper.

One big thing I noticed for me was how much more comfortable I have become using the front brake deep into the corner. I would have never done this on a big bike before but, after a few rounds of OMRL last season, I gained the skill and confidence to do this on my Panigale. First time I ever wore out a front tire almost as fast as a rear tire on a liter bike.

Trust me, the smiles after a good race are the same whether racing 100cc or 1000cc. The main differences are the risks to your health and your wallet.

Biggie #72 OMRL

[jbot]

I absolutely think it helps with any two wheel riding you will do, but specifically in your case as well.

Bike control: Little bikes require you to maintain corner speed and brake deep into the corner while leaned over. Things I never had to do racing super twins 10 - 12 years ago.

Race craft: Little bikes allow you to get comfortable passing and being passed along with racing close to others. Things you will need to do on the big bikes. Hardest thing I found when I started racing big bikes was how close you would be to others at speed. Little bikes allow you to get comfortable with this at more safe speeds. You will probably still feel weird when you get bumped as someone goes up the inside, etc. You will learn to setup and execute a pass against multiple riding styles.

Race prep: Little racing or big racing, you still need to learn to bring a bike that is ready to the track, have spares, tools, know how, etc. to make you race day enjoyable. Getting ready for little racing is not much different than big racing. Just cheaper.

One big thing I noticed for me was how much more comfortable I have become using the front brake deep into the corner. I would have never done this on a big bike before but, after a few rounds of OMRL last season, I gained the skill and confidence to do this on my Panigale. First time I ever wore out a front tire almost as fast as a rear tire on a liter bike.

Trust me, the smiles after a good race are the same whether racing 100cc or 1000cc. The main differences are the risks to your health and your wallet.

Biggie #72 OMRL

that is helpful insight. thanks

my riding and racing all the help it can get. i will ponder this; maybe i will get one packed season in before a baby pops out and ruins all the fun

[redkow97]

Jinu,

I am of the opinion that the minis allow us to take greater risks with fewer or less severe consequences. I'm not even remotely worried about crashing a 100 lbs. bike at 40mph.

That allows me to push the bike's limits and get comfortable doing so with much less trepidation than I would have on a 600.

I wouldn't say that I freaked out when I'd get the rear loose or pushed the front on the 600, but I certainly wasn't comfortable with that feeling. My hope is that I can get to that point on the XR and then the move back to the big bikes is similar, just at triple the speed.

I'm certain it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but it's better than crashing the 600 to learn the same lessons.

[Moto-Brian]

that is helpful insight. thanks

my riding and racing all the help it can get. i will ponder this; maybe i will get one packed season in before a baby pops out and ruins all the fun

Jbot-

I have to somewhat disagree with some things here. Small bikes are cool and will allow seat time which will obviously be of some benefit. And, as Red stated, you are willing to mentally take maybe a slightly higher level of risk when riding.

But, small chassis to big chassis and the cause and effect of the small bike vs big bike is completely different.

We have been working with a few dads that have had sons running through NSRs to RS chassis with smaller CC motors to big bikes. The NSR step is a fine "learn the skillsets and a bit of intro to body position, etc.", but they recommend getting into a larger chassis as soon as possible to transition into the big bikes quicker and more easily. The smaller chassis do not give the rider the results from input as the bigger bikes will.

I myself have ran YSRs a bit before and I can say that going from big bike to small bike is a closer link than small to big. Point being is that if you need seat time, you need big bike seat time.

Now, you go and put an 85 motor in an NSR or YSR and you will have a more reasonable result sequence of throttle control, inputs and results. But, not too many of those floating around...

It isn't a bash on any of the small bike riders so, when they get all huffy after this post, understand that it is from experience on both sizes and watching even the small bike guys come play on the bigger bikes.

The cost is an awesome benefit. But, if you really want to keep racing with the big bikes, you really need to take a winter trip or two down south and work on riding the big bike and getting seat time in that way. The cost is more, but you will net better results from the smaller % of seat time on the big bikes vs more seat time on the smaller bikes. The transition and the relationship between the two are very much more than a lot of people are making it sound out to be...

My $.02...

[attackpainter]

+1 on what Brian said. However i will say I have a blast racing with omrl and if you ride in the 450 class you get real comfortable with some big slides and it def transfers into big bike racing as well.

[turnone]

I agree it is smart to have kids on bigger bikes the sooner the better. I disagree that that means it isn't helpful in all the ways I mentioned. If Nicky Hayden and many other top level racers ride XR100's around for training and my personal experience is enough to convince me that once you are an adult you can gain a lot from riding any two wheeler, especially road racing them.

[jbot]

if i do really give it a college try, i wouldnt consider it the silver bullet for my suckiness (no no, i would simply blame my sore tender vagina for that) but rather, variety and just plain fun. i imagine other budding racers no matter what class would look at it the same way.

[Moto-Brian]

+1 on what Brian said. However i will say I have a blast racing with omrl and if you ride in the 450 class you get real comfortable with some big slides and it def transfers into big bike racing as well.

THIS!! Now, I can attest that riding a 450 and actually sliding and understanding front end grip, etc., you will get these from a 450 or even a 250 Supermoto. Smaller bikes just cannot replicate the slides and movements of the bigger bikes.

Now, fun factor? 100%. ANYTHING two wheels is fun! But, the smaller bikes are loads of shit eatin grins!!

[Moto-Brian]

I agree it is smart to have kids on bigger bikes the sooner the better. I disagree that that means it isn't helpful in all the ways I mentioned. If Nicky Hayden and many other top level racers ride XR100's around for training and my personal experience is enough to convince me that once you are an adult you can gain a lot from riding any two wheeler, especially road racing them.

The difference is that the Haydens and the schools with XRs, etc are doing it on dirt. Not pavement. The flat track experience is loose and relates to what a bikes does when certain inputs are given and loose is a way to achieve that. Pavement at CRP ain't dirt in the back yard that is loomy and loose...

It is helpful to get any seat time. But, when someone wants to get better at a big bike, riding/racing a smaller bike at CRP or similar isn't the way to go about doing it. Now, if JBot wants to buy an XR100 and come do some flat tracking, he will learn a ton. It's completely different worlds, my friend.

[turnone]

The difference is that the Haydens and the schools with XRs, etc are doing it on dirt. Not pavement. The flat track experience is loose and relates to what a bikes does when certain inputs are given and loose is a way to achieve that. Pavement at CRP ain't dirt in the back yard that is loomy and loose...

It is helpful to get any seat time. But, when someone wants to get better at a big bike, riding/racing a smaller bike at CRP or similar isn't the way to go about doing it. Now, if JBot wants to buy an XR100 and come do some flat tracking, he will learn a ton. It's completely different worlds, my friend.

I've ridden small bikes on the dirt and they slide a lot.

I've ridden small bikes at CRP and I have tucked the front and slide the rear many times. The speeds are higher than on the dirt for the same slides, but no where near the big bike speeds.

I'm not sure how that wouldn't relate to big bikes.

Edit: Even American Supercamp now teaches dirt and pavement on cart track. http://www.americansupercamp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=8

End of edit:

Maybe we just disagree, but there are the other benefits I mentioned that would help a novice race at a much lower cost than just going to a few rounds of Moto-series.

Edited November 24, 2012 by turnone
ASC info

[Moto-Brian]

I've ridden small bikes on the dirt and they slide a lot.

I've ridden small bikes at CRP and I have tucked the front and slide the rear many times. The speeds are higher than on the dirt for the same slides, but no where near the big bike speeds.

I'm not sure how that wouldn't relate to big bikes.

Edit: Even American Supercamp now teaches dirt and pavement on cart track. http://www.americansupercamp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=8

End of edit:

Maybe we just disagree, but there are the other benefits I mentioned that would help a novice race at a much lower cost than just going to a few rounds of Moto-series.

You're not as loose on the pavement as the dirt. You can try and make it sound like you are going full Casey Stoner out there at CRP, but that's not the case. Tucking the front is fine - seen it, done it. But, the reactions and inputs are nowhere near the same as a big bike. Also, nothing near what you input and deal with on the dirt. You're not spinning the rear and hanging out the back like you would on the dirt nor what can occur on a big bike. I hear the guys in the pits at CRP and chuckle when they start talking spinning and tucking.

American Supercamp is teaching Supermoto now. The idea of transitioning between different types of surfaces and dealing with it.

Listen, come to the big track and show us how much it has taught you on the big bike. I can promise that the transition is not the same or similar. But, I take an accomplished road racer of big bikes and take them to CRP and they will adapt rather quickly.

I'm not going to argue as I have had this issue before and it came to a head where we were being bashed. We came in with stock XR100s and won the three hour race at Beaver to prove a point. We called ourselves "The Big, Bad, Evil Bike Guys"...

Again, I know that JBot is trying to better himself on the big bike. My suggestion is that little bikes aren't going to hurt. But, they aren't going to help as if he would just do 2-3 track days down south over winter and work solely on his racing and riding on the big bike once the season starts.

He's a big, grown up boy and can decide himself.

As for costs? Yes, little bikes cost less. Yes, there are races. Yes, you will have fun. BUT, if he wants to keep racing big bikes, he is going to be spending more. Why? Unless he converts solely to small bikes, he is adding costs to his racing/track days stuff. It's only cheaper if you race solely small bikes. If you do both and are dedicated to be racing in a program big or small, the other bike and racing is an additional cost.

Think buying an MX bike to learn riding loose for road racing. It is a tool and an additional cost of racing big bikes...

JBot? My opinion is if you are going to spend $1500 on a bike to race once in a while, buy a dirty bike and learn sliding and loose riding. It will translate into better control on your big bike. Riding a 450 supermoto and a 450 MX bike brought me up to speed a lot quicker and translated so much more closely than a small bike does.

I'm not bashing the CRP guys in any way. I've had some fun, know a lot of guys that have done it or do it. I was around it a long time ago and there seems to be this riff between big bike guys and small bike guys. It's difficult to sort out, but a lot of veteran road race guys that have tried to do some racing at the smaller track places have been shunned or not really welcomed. It's weird. We were actually talking about this at Mid-Ohio towards the end of the season when talking about my son. A few other guys had the same feelings. Not sure where it started, why it happens, or how to cure it.

But, my son will be riding an NSR 50 this spring and summer and we will be around I suspect. The guy that sold us the bike was a big bike (RS125) racer and was great to work with and very thoughtful in giving us info and suggestions. I greatly appreciated it and felt great after the sale. I'd hope that feeling would be had at the track when we go, but not sure... All I know is that we just want to get some seat time for him to advance him to big bikes as soon as possible or transition into the RS125 chassis with a smaller motor...

[fireman_343]

Ok.. I'm going to chime in here now.. Lol

First off, I've raced everything from a stock slow ass YSR to a R6.. But now that I'm old and slow on both big bikes and minis, I'll fill ya in on my thoughts on going from Mini to big bikes.

When I started racing with my club (used to be called OYL) I thought it was a joke, but found out fast how much fun it was and cheap as well. The feel is not the same as big bikes. I was trying to race the little YSR like a R6, but kept crashing. I think I crashed more my first season racing minis then all the seasons combined! Like Brian said, you need seat time, and learn how the bike feels, how it acts and all that good stuff. I just bought a FZR400 to start racing vintage next season. I took it out for its first track day a few months back and I felt slow as dog shit again, because I was learning how it feels, acts and responds. I just needed seat time, and got a bunch of it at the Prodmore school on that bike and was running much better toward the end of the day. The one thing that I believe helps with going from minis to bigger bikes is the close passing and late breaking. Each bike feels different, this FZR feels nothing like my old R6, and nothing like my 20HP NSF125 mini. Now, you want to talk wheel spin, and power slides at will on a mini, I welcome you to toss a leg over my bike! Lol

Minis are cheap, fun and great way to learn flags, passing and late breaking IMO. The most important thing IS seat time, no matter if its a 50-100cc or 400,600 or 1k.

Come out, have fun with us.. Learn a thing or two and go see if you can use it on the big track!

Oh and Brian.. Tell those friends of yours that have come to to race with us in the past that we are under new management and I think I know who you are talking about, they no longer race with our club anymore! You'll be shocked how much has changed (for the better). Mark, the RS125 racer that you got the bike off of, is a good friend of mine, he will tell ya how much fun and family friendly we are! Hope to see ya at the track, big or small soon!

Edited November 25, 2012 by fireman_343

[redkow97]

I really didn't meant to start a big bike versus mini debate; I just wanted to point out how affordable the whole mini scene can be.

I made it out on the 'big' bike two times in 2012... That probably cost me about $600 for one race weekend, and one track day. That's just in entry fees. Never mind the fact that my bike cost over $3k, and the DOT race tires are $300+ a set...

I can literally race all season with the OMRL for what 2 weekends would cost me on the big bike.

Racing is fun regardless of what size the bike is. I can afford to do 9 days on the smaller bike, rather than 3 or 4 on the bigger bike. Easy decision for me. If money were no object, I'd certainly be out on the big tracks as well.

If all goes as planned, I should be able to get a solid stock XR100 for about 1/3 of what my 600 brings in. I have looked at building it up, but I don't want a $1600 mini. Not yet anyway. Maybe in a few years, but for now, I want to avoid "hundred dollaring" myself to death with upgrades.

Long-term, I would like to keep the XR and race that for grins, and then build/buy/race a 'new' bike every couple of years, and try to be in the top 3 in every OMRL class over a 10 or 15 year period That's probably way too ambitious, but nothing great ever came from half-assing it!

And I'm sure I'll be back on "big" bikes within a year or two, but I will do that a bit differently too. I'm thinking LW twins, or some kind of vintage class next time around. Only time will tell.

Edited November 26, 2012 by redkow97

[turnone]

I'm still trying to figure out how riding a mini on dirt is useful, but riding a mini on pavement isn't? If small and big are so different, why would riding a small bike ever be useful? I say it is useful. I personally feel riding any motorized in line two wheel vehicle is beneficial.

Now I agree, nothing is a substitue for big bike time.

I've never ridden with jbot and don't recall ever meeting him. It would be hard to tell whether mini racing is the best use of jbot's time and money. I do think he would learn things and have fun while doing it with minimal risks.

I don't go to the big bike tracks because the risks vs. rewards are too high for me. As a single self employed father of 4, I can't take the risk of being all broken up (or worse) if I get into a big crash. I raced 3 partial seasons 10-12 years ago and really enjoyed it. I have a few plaques to prove I wasn't running at the back of the pack.

I'm faster now than I was then and I feel I could do better than I did back then as I have more time and money to dedicate. I really WANT to go big bike racing, just can't justify.

Biggie

[Moto-Brian]

I'm still trying to figure out how riding a mini on dirt is useful, but riding a mini on pavement isn't? If small and big are so different, why would riding a small bike ever be useful? I say it is useful. I personally feel riding any motorized in line two wheel vehicle is beneficial.

Now I agree, nothing is a substitue for big bike time.

I've never ridden with jbot and don't recall ever meeting him. It would be hard to tell whether mini racing is the best use of jbot's time and money. I do think he would learn things and have fun while doing it with minimal risks.

I don't go to the big bike tracks because the risks vs. rewards are too high for me. As a single self employed father of 4, I can't take the risk of being all broken up (or worse) if I get into a big crash. I raced 3 partial seasons 10-12 years ago and really enjoyed it. I have a few plaques to prove I wasn't running at the back of the pack.

I'm faster now than I was then and I feel I could do better than I did back then as I have more time and money to dedicate. I really WANT to go big bike racing, just can't justify.

Biggie

The mini dirt bike allows sliding and loose riding which translates into controlling the bike under those conditions so when the big bike gets loose, it doesn't freak the rider out. Thus why American Supercamp, Colin Edwards' school, Rich Oliver's school, etc use XRs and TTRs. Nobody is using NSRs or YSRs... Not to be a dick, but if mini road racing were the ticket to making big bike riders better, it would be done in schools such as mentioned.

The idea of mini road racing is just that - fun and a good time. Less cost if you were wanting to get the knee down and the feel. But, if adding on to his program? More money overall. If using it to train for the big bike? I don't advise and would push towards off road riding as a way to train.

It's dollars and cents.

I'm sure I got some type of plaque somewhere... We can compare notes at some point I am sure as if you were racing 10-12 years ago, we've crossed paths if you raced WERA or AMA.

[turnone]

Maybe I am being misunderstood? I don't think mini racing is 'the ticket', just beneficial in the ways I mentioned. There are other options that may or may not be more helpful to jbot depending on what he is lacking. Sorry if I haven't been clear on this.

Anyways, I'm sure jbot and others have had their fill of my opinion on this topic.

Hope to see lots of folks out with OMRL next year, or any racing series for that matter.

Biggie