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jagr

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Everything posted by jagr

  1. Podcast up with Massad Ayoob on the Armed Squirrel Project. We were guests in this podcast twice. Enjoy. http://www.armedsquirrelsproject.libsyn.com/rss
  2. The Mag20 isn't about how to take Fallujah it's about how to take on the aftermath of a shooting and much more. It's about understanding the criminal mind and predator/prey relationships. Course description. A two-day, 20-hour immersion course in rules of engagement for armed law-abiding private citizens, emphasizing legal issues, tactical issues, and aftermath management. Topics will include interacting with suspects, witnesses, responding police officers…threat recognition and mind-set…management of social and psychological aftermath after having had to use lethal force in defense of self or others…and preparing beforehand for legal repercussions and minimizing exposure to them. Situations in the home, at the place of business, or “on the street” will all be covered.
  3. I hope it helps put things in perspective. Our understanding of behaviors and Human psychology need to be "trained" just as any other skill and is just as important as anything we do on the range. You need to plan on taking the Mag20 class with us next year. Life changing. All of you that are really serious about this lifestyle should. http://massadayoobgroup.com/mag-20-classroom/
  4. He didn't even move. Just took it like a champ.
  5. Good to hear everyone was pleased with the course. Id love to have you all back again for another class. We will have the next level offering ready to roll by spring.
  6. Yeah. I've had manuals all my life too. I could deal with automatic on this. Loved the Touring model with Nav and Eyesight. Sticker 36K. Offered it to me for 34.5ish.
  7. jagr

    Lunch this week?

    Lunch? As in leave work for sustenance? Who gets to do that anymore? Oh wait. You have EBT?
  8. I was really looking at both of these for a month or so But I'm going with a ForesterXT. Lesbian jokes engage!!!
  9. So I'm that guy now. Lulz. I'm ok with that.
  10. Hey All. One thing to note. It's structured to be a 4-6 hour party but we've fleshed it out a bit and it's going to be a minimum of 7 hours. 250 rounds is a minimum. 350 is about the max people have expended in this class. Most of the drills are 2-4 or more rounds. It's up to you. You engage till the threat goes down. That visualization is a big component of this training methodology. One thing Brian left out that is of critical importance is that we will take over one of Coshoctons fine eateries post class. Yucatan anyone?
  11. Picking this up tomorrow from cleaver. Should knock the Raptor nicely.
  12. Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?
  13. What is this place??? Is it teh Matrix?
  14. Not ragging on you Brother nor am i whole heartedly disagreeing with you but IF you are involved in a shooting lets chat about this statement you made. Remember our training, actions, words and equipment need to convey out determination to protect life. That's right protect life, not the taking of it. . Sound backwards? I'm sure it does but I'm not just talking about preserving the bad guys life I'm talking about preserving yours. Everything that happens in that incident will be picked apart for the world to see. Every aspect your training, or lack of, will be picked apart and used against you. You meant to cause his death you say? People have been convicted of pre-meditated murder for having the thought ONE SECOND prior to a critical incident. You just typed it here and we all know the internet is forever. One second doesn't seem pre-meditated to me but I'm not the one who's going to put you away for most of your life. You hear people say "you never shoot to kill you only shoot to stop the threat." That doesn't mean kill it means what it says. I'll have no problem explaining if to a jury of my peers. I think we know the reality of this and it may well be the 2nd biggest problem you ever face. Imagine explaining to 12 uber religious soccer moms why you talked about and planned prior to the killing of little average hometown teen Johnny. They will bring everyone they can to say what a good but maybe misunderstood boy Johnny was and yes he may have been engaged in a home invasion to feed his pill addiction but Hey, he was just turning his life around when you killed him. You could have just let him leave? He's just a 6' 300# teddy bear. But no, you had to kill him with your Rest in Pieces death ammo shot from your super auto Glock 42! You were punishing all the people who did you wrong. That's why you have that "punisher" symbol all over your gun. Think I'm wrong? Think I'm being dramatic? Read some cases transcripts or watch the WEEKS of footage and this is the ridiculousness you will see. Again it's not "us" you have to convince its "them" as in your peers. I see you have quoted a snippet of code about Castle doctrine. Remember that only removed your duty to retreat. Your situation must meet the 2 other conditions. 1. Not at fault. 2. A real belief of death or serious bodily harm. (immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent) Just because someone is in your home illegally does not give you a reason to use deadly force. You must be able to convey your "reasonable fear". You must be able to explain how the intruder had AOJ. ABILITY OPPORTUNITY JEOPARDY Ability means that the other person has the power to kill or to cripple you. Opportunity means that the circumstances are such that the other person would be able to use his ability against you. Jeopardy means that the other person’s actions or words provide you with a reasonably-perceived belief that he intends to kill you or cripple you. You hear a bump in the night and grab your mossberg to investigate. As you come down the stair and turn the corner you come face to face with the intruder. You panic and press the trigger and punch a fist sized hole into their chest. Who was it? A drunk in the wrong house? An elderly senile neighbor? Your son sneaking back in from a party? A teenager with your blue ray player under his arm? How are you going to justify your actions? Did you meet the 2 conditions? Do any meet the AOJ? Nope. You can definitely be charged. You may get off but you have to live with your actions and most certainly face a civil lawsuit. As you can see this can go on and on and on. Let me get back to preserving life. At the point in a critical incident your firearm is clearing your holster you must know your next action is not about taking life it's about Saving life. At this point you are in Triage. You are deciding whose life can be saved based on the severity of conditions at hand and the limited resources available. You will most likely have seconds to decide what must be done. Whatever action you choose, if it is just, will have saved your life, your families life and your way of life. Choose wrong and you will have destroyed your life and the lives of your family should they survive. If all this sounds silly or foreign I advise you seek out literature on the subject and get some real training. It's not about carrying a gun to shoot people it's about carrying a gun and being responsibly trained and knowledgable in self defense law. It's about knowing what to do and when to do nothing. Believe me when I say doing nothing may be the hardest thing you'll ever have to do.
  15. Do we get to shoot real guns n stuff???
  16. If you like long posts you're in for a real treat. I can't take credit for this beast as it's a collaboration of many souls and posted elsewhere by my friend George "Mad Ogre" Hill. Enjoy. Magic Bullets There are a lot of misconceptions about bullets and how they work. There is no voodoo to what a projectile does. There is no mystery. There is only ignorance and misunderstanding. So, the next time you see a full color 2 page advertisement for some wonderfully tactical ammunition that is obviously used by every Special Forces Ninja out there… take it with a grain of salt. Let’s take a look at how a bullet stops a bad guy. Lots of people who read gun magazines and little else use a certain phrase way too much. “One Shot Stop”. These are the same guys that go on and on about bullets and loads and are always searching for that Magic Bullet. The “Black Arrow” that will slay evil even if it misses. There is no such thing. Some hollow points are better at certain aspects of bullet performance than others… but in effect, they all do the same thing. Make holes. The trick is to make the holes where they do the most damage. This is called “Shot Placement” and is the most critically important aspect of a bullet wound. There is more than one way to skin a cat. There is also more than one way for the bullet to stop a threat. 1. Hydraulically. Making the target bleed out. Once a human looses enough blood, he goes into Hypovolemic shock. Hypovolemic shock refers to a medical or surgical condition in which rapid fluid loss results in multiple organ failure due to inadequate tissue perfusion. Most often, Hypovolemic shock is secondary to rapid blood loss (hemorrhagic shock). The cardiovascular system initially responds to Hypovolemic shock by increasing the heart rate, increasing myocardial contractility, and constricting peripheral blood vessels. This means to you and I that shots to extremities get a biological response that naturally reduces the loss of blood. A center mass hit is required to insure this rapid loss of blood. If you aim Center Of Mass (COM from now on) the bullet has the best chances of penetrating deeply into vital internal organs. 2. Structurally. The human body is built on a solid framework we call the skeleton. Certain bones in the skeleton support the whole weight of body. I’m talking about the legs and the pelvis. A shot that hits and shatters one of these bones disrupts the structure and causes a collapse. Actually making this shot is difficult as the legs are much thicker than the actual bone. There is another downside to that kinda of a shot, and that is the subject may still have some fight left in him. He may not be able to stand, and probably wont be doing any tap dancing for some time, but if he is armed, he is still a threat. He just might still be able to take a shot back at you. 3. Electrically. CNS. Central Nervous System. The nervous system in the human body is basically like electric wiring and all the wires run to the brain via the conduit called the central nervous system. It’s located in the spine. Sounds easy enough, but really this is where it gets complicated. If you fire a shot that hits the spine and severs the CNS, you’ve disrupted the electrical system. But only everything “Down Stream” from that wound. That could be a problem. If it was a COM shot and you hit the subject in the spin in the middle of the back, he will not be able to use his legs, but the upper body is still connected and functional. The subject could still return fire. The place that you want to hit to turn the subject off like a light switch is a very small target. You want to hit the Medulla Oblongata. It is the size of a Grade A Medium egg, it is nested in a protective covering of very solid bone. Making that shot with a handgun is unlikely. Unless your subject is bound and kneeling in front of you and your about to give him the Mafia Classic “Two shots to the back of the head”… don’t even think about taking that shot. In such a dynamic event as a gunfight, you’re a fool if you think your going to be making that kinda of a shot. Even bench rested. Your target is small and the subject is moving… Take the shot you can get and aim COM. Now, if your in the urban police sniper role and you have a nice .308 rifle with a high power scope, then MAYBE this shot is an option. Especially if you only have one shot it has got to stop the subject instantly… that is what you want to hit. Like a light switch. Effective – but hard to get. 4. Psychologically. Getting a bullet wound, even a minor can have a drastic effect on someone’s moral motivation. Some people, they see a little blood, and they just lose the will to fight. They give up right then and there. They may even go into shock. Some people have even died from this, when the wound its self was not even life threatening. Although this does and can happen, don’t bank on it. You might think that the bad guy might stop having been hurt. There is a pretty good chance if they were not bright enough to stop at the sight of an aimed gun, they are not going to stop with a mere wounding. Sometimes getting hurt just makes the subject all the more dangerous. Your shot may have been a lethal one and that guy will die… but in the mean time, he wants nothing more than to take your head off. The famous Miami Massacre in which two mortally wounded villains took on and wounded and killed several agents of the FBI is a good example of this. Then again, a wounded villain could have caught a poorly aimed slug, and all the sudden has a vision of his mortality and throws in the towel right there on the spot. You never know. Don’t count on this… if you get it, great. But predicting psychology is a lot more guess work than predicting the weather. Looking at these four ways of how a bullet stops a fight, I am left with the simple conclusion that the only thing that you can bank on is well aimed shots to the Center Of Mass. You want to use as big of a bullet as you can handle… in as powerful of a load as you can handle. You want to drive that slug deep into the vital organs of the threat. That has the best chances of stopping the threat via one of these 4 ways. Notice that I used the word “shots”? I have never seen a situation where a shooting was warranted that only warranted one single shot. You can multiply your bullet’s “stopping power” by multiplying the number of hits. Follow that first shot with another one. Shoot until the threat stops. Firing one shot and waiting to see what happens is not a good idea. You shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. This is for Police or Military or Momma at the Mall in the parking lot. Banking on the One Shot Stop is a bad idea. The only people who do are the gun writers who get to deposit the check for the articles. UPDATE: To clarify and muddy the waters further, let's look at what a round does specifically to tissue. Now, there are 2 different kinds of basic rounds. Handgun rounds and Rifle rounds. Let's look at Handguns first. Even the most powerful handguns fall far short of the energy levels of a rifle. This is why hunters don't take to the field with handguns. A handgun bullet hits the target with and delivers blunt force trauma. Much like throwing a rock. The bullet penetrates because of its energy but this isn't a piercing. A handgun bullet crushes the tissue all the way through and leaves the permanent wound channel as pretty much the only damaged tissue. A rifle round is different. Thanks to the bullet shape and the higher energy levels the rifle bullet does much more damage. First of all, the rifle round pierces the tissue like a knife blade. It cuts through the flesh much cleaner than the blunt force of the handgun, but thanks to aerodynamic forces it does some nasty things. First off is the vacuum effect from the bullet's aerodynamic drag. This vacuum pulls debris into the wound channel... debris that can become secondary projectiles and or introduce infection to the wound. (A handgun round will only punch a small bit of debris like a cookie cutter as it passes through barriers like fur or clothing) Very nasty that debris. Now to understand what happens next, you have to have a little understanding of fluid dynamics. Have you ever watched a fast boat? What follows the boat? The wake. The wake is the essentially the boat's slow motion shockwave of displacement of water across the surface as the boat passes through it. The same thing happens with a rifle round, but much much faster. Water can not be compressed. Water does react though... it's pushed out and away, and then it is sucked back to fill the vacuum. Tissue is essentially water. Water that is held together in the collection of cells we call tissue. The shockwave from a rifle shot moves so fast and so hard that it literally shatters the cellular walls. The result is that in the area around the rifle hit, the tissue is pretty much transformed into jelly. The higher the power of the rifle the greater that cavitation damage. The shape of the rifle's bullet of course also plays an effect, just like the shape of a boat's hull. This shockwave can also disrupt the neural network through and around the body of the creature that has been shot. There is some misunderstanding in the shooting community about this shockwave. It happens in a very small and ineffective way with a handgun round... yet because of this misunderstanding some guys play on it and sell handgun rounds that are advertised as creating huge shockwave damage which is just not possible. That would be like a Bi-Plane creating a sonic boom.... it just isn't happening. UPDATE: 5. Denial of Oxygen to the Brain. Cerebral Anoxia and Hypoxia. Also contained herein: an addendum to CNS injury, some interesting facts about your heart and blood, and an extremely fun description of hydraulic cavitation. Found these on the subject of Anoxia/Hypoxia and your heart: http://www.thecochranfirmno.com/areas-brainjury-anoxic.htmlhttp://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/921384224.htmlhttp://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/IradaMuslumova.shtmlI submit this as number 5 because it’s different from system-wide hydraulic failure. You aren’t necessarily bleeding the target out, or ever even inducing Hypovolemic or Hemorrhagic shock. The brain uses about a fifth of the body’s oxygen supply. Cut off or even restrict it, and he can die with most of his blood still in his veins and arteries. That’s what we hunters try to do with every big-game shot. There are two—well, three main ways to accomplish this cerebral anoxia/hypoxia. The third, which I almost didn’t mention, is to pinch off the carotid arteries. There’s one on either side of the neck, and if your grip is on target, the subject passes out in seconds. Cerebral anoxia. Denial of oxygen-bearing blood to the brain. If you continue to hold, he eventually dies. But the unconsciousness is, literally, seconds away. But that’s a hand-to-hand move. If you have a knife, you can stab him in his carotids, instead. This causes both anoxia and system-wide hydraulic failure (hypovolemic shock). Which one kills him first will be a toss-up, but he’ll loose consciousness in seconds. See, the carotids are two of the main branches of blood flow from the heart, so he’ll be pumping his blood directly out of his body. At the same time, that blood isn’t reaching his brain, so it’s dying of anoxia. He goes unconscious from the anoxia, and then that and hypovolemic shock are in a race to kill him. Some facts: The average adult contains about 5 liters of blood. The average healthy heart, running an average 75bpm, pumps about 4 to 5 liters per minute. That’s means the whole blood content of your body circulates completely just under once per minute. Under stress or during exercise, the blood-flow can be quadrupled, to between 15 and 20 liters per minute. A man in a fight, with his carotid artery cut, is, whether he likes it or not, going to be doing his darndest to pump out his own life’s blood as fast as he can. One minute, maybe two, to congestive heart failure, through just one hole in one carotid artery. A true spray. Second, and far easier than an attack on the carotids is to is to simply shoot the man through the heart. This is what hunters try to do with big game. Destroy the heart, and it stops pumping. Blood flows for another second or so on momentum alone, and then it comes to rest, and even begins draining toward the lowest end of the body. Which is the opposite end from the head. Again, the brain needs continuous oxygen to function. All metabolic processes in the human body begin with ATP, and ATP is produced via the Krebs Cycle, which is essentially the controlled burning (oxidizing) of carbohydrates. No oxygen, no Krebs Cycle, no ATP, no cellular function, no brain function. Stopping the heart is the fastest kill possible, save for the destruction of the Medulla Oblongata. Stop the heart, and the subject will usually fall where he stands. Full death in seconds. A note to your readers regarding CNS injuries: they will not stop the heart. That’s the other thing to be aware of regarding spinal shots. Even without nervous input, the heart will continue to beat, thanks to God’s miracle, the Sinus Node. The Sinus Node is a point at the top of the heart where an electrochemical impulse begins in the muscle cells, causing them to contract. The impulse cascades down heart from there, causing all the other cells to act likewise. Thump. The heart beats. The Sinus Node is not a thing, not visible or recognizable. It is just a place. No one, to my knowledge, knows exactly what makes it work. It generally does its thing on command from the CNS, but it will continue to generate its cascading signal even without that input. This is the grain of truth behind legends of hearts beating after being ripped out of bodies, as in “Temple of Doom.” The ramifications of this capability should be obvious. The heart is a trooper. It will keep fighting, even when all its comrades lie dead or dying around it. And it has won many Alamo-type situations, thanks to that fighting spirit. It might just keep you alive, all on its own, long enough for the paramedics to arrive. Or, it might keep your foe conscious just long enough to get off one last shot. First, and easiest, is the lung-shot, which causes cerebral hypoxia. Hypoxia is Anoxia’s twin sister. Anoxia is the restriction of blood flow; hypoxia is free blood flow carrying restricted quantities of oxygen. The brain continues to pump blood to the brain, but the blood it pumps is oxygen-poor. Why? Because your target is drowning. You won’t know it, save for a little bubble or trickle of blood at his lips, perhaps, but his lung (or lungs, if you’re good) are filling up with his own blood, if those lungs even still exist. All the blood in the world won’t do you any good if it’s not carrying oxygen. As with a the carotid artery puncture, hydraulic failure is not far behind, for the lungs are by necessity one of the most bloody parts of the body, since surface-area is a major factor in transporting oxygen into the blood. Death from a lung shot, depending on severity, can be almost as quick as a heart shot. A rifle bullet or high-energy projectile of any sort can cause the lung to disintegrate via cavitation (see below), but even a simple hole in a lung will bleed hard and fast. Mid to high holes are better for this because they bleed down into the rest of the lung. It fills up with blood, which is just like filling up with water. An exploded lung will kill in seconds. A filling lung might take longer, but will still take only a fraction of the time required to actually bleed someone into Hypovolemic Shock with a liver shot or something of the sort. All in all, it’s just another case for Center Mass. While a shot to the Medulla Oblongata is instant death, a shot to the heart is almost as fast—indeed, just as fast, in practical terms. Lungs are close behind. A good side-on with a rifle will pass through one lung, through the heart, and through the other lung before exiting. Any one of those brings near-instant unconsciousness, if not near-instant brain death. So, yeah, aim for his heart. “Aim small, miss small,” goes the “Patriot” quote. Aim at the heart, and if you miss, you hit the lungs. Any of them will cause cerebral anoxia/hypoxia and almost instant incapacitation. I mentioned “cavitation” above. In the interests of general education and the dissemination of information, I’ll give it a few words as well. What I’m referring to is specifically “Hydraulic Cavitation,” First, Newtonian physics: A moving mass hits a relatively (it’s ALL relative, after all) stationary mass. The stationary mass is, of course, happy where it is, thanks to Inertia (God rest ye, Newton). However, the moving mass has momentum, another kind of Inertia, and insists that the stationary mass “Get out of the way!” Well, for the stationary mass to vacate, it must acquire some kinetic energy. It gets this energy from the object that is striking it. The amount of energy transferred depends on the masses involved, as well as some variables such as elasticity and friction, and of course the actual amount of energy the moving mass starts with. Basically, it takes more energy to move a bigger object. So if the stationary mass is huge and the moving mass is tiny, the stationary mass will “stop” the moving mass. Splat. Like a meteor hitting the earth. Of course, nothing is absolute. The stationary mass will move a little, but in the case of the meteor and the earth, the difference in the earth’s velocity isn’t enough to notice. If on the other hand, the moving mass is huge and the stationary mass is tiny, the moving mass may not even slow down to a noticeable degree, but the stationary mass will suddenly take on a great deal of velocity. You’ll see this if you ever see someone (a person, a deer, a dog) get hit by a car. The car hardly seems to notice. But the poor victim notices. The victim does NOT plaster to the front of the car. Rather, the victim launches, suddenly taking on a velocity even greater than car had when it hit. Hence the “flying thirty feet through the air” part of most car-vs-pedestrian encounters. Yeah, anyway, hope you followed that. So, bullet vs you. Bullet hits your flesh. Your flesh would rather sit still, but the bullet is very insistent. “Incoming fire has the right of way,” is another quote on M. Ogre’s site. So after a brief (read: instantaneous) resistance, the flesh at the point of contact gives way. No, I take that back: it FLIES away. But the bullet is fast, man. Real fast. And soft tissue (brain, guts, and the like—all 70+% water) isn’t much of a resisting force. So the bullet and the leading edge of the shock-wave it created on impact travel together through the body. The shockwave trails out in a wide cone behind the projectile (like the fire coming off the nose of an Orbiter on reentry). But wait, that shock-wave-cone-thing is the actual tissue from the point of impact, still moving away from the bullet. So what about the other tissue it hits along the way? Well, the tissue compresses as much as it can. But tissue is, again, seventy-something percent water. Water is liquid. Liquid is a “compressed state.” Unlike a gas, a liquid is a small as it can get, molecularly speaking. The molecules simply can’t get any closer together, unless you’re measuring on a minute scale and super-cooling the liquid. Which we’re not. In fact, we’re heating the liquid. Because what energy the bullet imparted to the flesh that couldn’t be immediately turned into motion was turned into heat instead. And the bullet is hot to begin with, because it was propelled by an explosion. So that’s just one other factor AGAINST compression of the tissue. So where does this flesh, being bulldozed as it is by other flesh, go? Well, find a man who’s been shot in the front, and take a look at his back, and then you tell me. That cantaloupe-sized hole is there for a reason. Okay, so we have a cone-shaped bulldozing effect. But if that’s the original flesh from the point of impact, pushing outward, then what’s inside the cone? Nothing. It’s empty. There isn’t even any air there. The bullet is moving too fast for air molecules to stay filled in behind it. See, they had their own inertia. Then the bullet came whipping through, pushing them away to the side rather harshly. The air molecules are still moving OUT after the bullet passes. It takes them a moment to slow down and reverse course, to fill in where the bullet went through. Same with slightly-compressed soft tissue. That original mass of flesh is slowing down, because it’s running into all of the other flesh in the affected area and transferring its energy. So the shockwave is now no longer pushing like a bulldozer, but passing from cell to cell like a true wave. Like a seismic wave travels through the ocean. But fear not, you still get your explosive exit wound. After all, that seismic wave ends in a tsunami when it hits the shore, even if those water molecules aren’t the same ones it started in. So, yeah, that original mass of flesh is slowing down, but it hasn’t stopped yet, and it certainly hasn’t reversed course to fill in the hole. But it’s about to. You see, that flesh is feeling a pull from behind. This can be compared to the blow-back in a high-heat explosion. Remember those images of early nuke tests? The initial shockwave goes by, and then the wind starts blowing TOWARD the epicenter, because the heat at the center has caused the air there to shoot up into a mushroom cloud, leaving a void that has to be filled. Well, in the case of your bullet, the shockwave itself caused the void. Ladies and gentlemen, that void is what we officially call the Cavity. Hence “Cavitation.” The Cavity is a vacuum, and nature abhors a vacuum, so it tries to fill this vacuum with whatever is nearby. Air flows in from the entry-wound, but most of all, soft tissue, having offloaded the kinetic energy of the shockwave to the next layer of cells, falls back into its original place. Except it doesn’t fall, it surges. This in itself can happen with an almost explosive force, causing a little bit of spray forward, toward the entry wound, and adding to the explosion that’s currently taking place at the point of exit. So what is the final effect of all this? Well, the flesh of your brain just vacated a volume the size of a plum (or even larger) and then refilled it, in a tiny fraction of a second, probably at supersonic speeds. Complex molecular structures such as those that form cells simply can not stand up to this kind of abuse. The bonds that hold cells to each other to form coherent tissues are even weaker. The result is that what flows back into the gap—as well as all soft tissue anywhere nearby that got pounded and compressed and generally abused by the passing shock-wave—is no longer tissue at all, but rather what those in the business call “soup.” It’s just assorted liquids, with a few bits of tattered, barely coherent flesh suspended within. My 6mm did this to one entire lung of a Tennessee whitetail deer. I found some of that lung along the blood trail, mixed in with the blood itself. There were a few recognizable chunks, but the rest of the lung tissue was completely pulverized. A high-energy bullet to the head will destroy most of the brain in the same way. What does this mean for you shooters? Well, it means “If you can choose what to bring to a gun fight, bring a rifle, and bring friends with rifles.” Pistols rarely deliver enough energy to cause cavitation. You can shoot a man in the head, and he just might live, all though he might be a changed man afterwards, either because of the psychological trauma or because you remapped the synapses that determine his personality (yes, your personality IS a mapping of synaptic links across the brain). All you’ve done is make a hole. However, shoot a man in the head with a rifle cartridge (even a 5.56 NATO Ball, if the range is under a hundred yards or so, though bigger holes are still better holes), and you’ve made a soup out of everything inside his skull. Indeed, Cavitation is one of the main reasons why Michael Lee Platt was able to kill as many FBI officers as he did on April 11th of 1986 after already taking a supposedly mortal bullet wound in his chest. The FBI were using pistols. Platt had a Mini-14. Cavitation is the reason rifles stop the target when pistols can’t. Cavitation and the fact that rifle bullets go through Kevlar on a regular basis. If you want to stop a rifle bullet, you have to try harder. Special thanks to Horde Member Ancient for this new information
  17. Part 2. The edge is the bigger bullet. We've come a long way achieving that without going to a .357 Take the 9mm or .40 Federal HST. That's some impressive expansion and still makes 12" penetration. Let's talk penetration. We all like penetration right? The test requires the round do many magical things all at once. I will highlight just a few. 12" penetration in bare gelatin. Penetration through various obstacles (drywall, sheet metal, windshields etc) while maintains mass and still penetrating 12" of gelatin. They want this because you won't always have an optimal frontal A zone shot. The critical wounding components for handgun ammunition, in order of importance, are penetration and permanent cavity. The bullet must penetrate sufficiently to pass through vital organs and be able to do so from less than optimal angles. For example, a shot from the side through an arm must penetrate at least 10-12 inches to pass through the heart. A bullet fired from the front through the abdomen must penetrate about 7 inches in a slender adult just to reach the major blood vessels in the back of the abdominal cavity. Penetration must be sufficiently deep to reach and pass through vital organs, and the permanent cavity must be large enough to maximize tissue destruction and consequent hemorrhaging. It's about wound channels. Large deep wound channels through blood bearing vitals. I admit I was bamboozled by Liberty but all this "justifying use of a round in a court" sent me back looking at what I've carried (Liberty of late, Golden Sabers before) and quite frankly Im not pleased with my current choice. Nor do I see a big difference between Liberty and G2 RIP other than penetration. So the rule is carry what LEO carries right?It's easier to justify use right? so what do they use? Rangers, Golden Sabres, Critical Duty and Fed HST, etc. come up frequently in that search. What do they have in common? HOLLOW POINTS AND THE FBI TESTS. What does not come up: fragmenting reduced penetration rounds. A sampling of 9mm meeting the criteria: Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet) Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1) Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3) Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P JHP bonded (GSB9MMD) Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P) Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP) Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA) Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5) Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2) Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC) Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T) See a pattern? Many more round/caliber combos pass the test. Please investigate on your own. Concerning Liberty I was told that: "The NTOA gave liberty their highest rating which makes it easy to justify in court why I carry it." I believe the source but have not researched it myself. In the end you must decide for yourself what you carry and why. Whatever the choice train with it and know what it will do. Read reviews. Watch tests. The most careless thing you can do is buy a box of rounds and just fill a mag and never shoot it. Buy 2 boxes. Shoot one and see how it acts. Be conscious of the sound, the recoil, the flash in low light. That way you know and won't be surprised when the time comes.
  18. As for everyone else the discussion about penetration and defending yourself against a dickhead DA for your round choice has been driving me nuts. Lots of people will say what ZX3vfr touched on. If it has a scary name you must be a crazed killer vigilante. Others will tell you the opposite and most of those of both opinions will tell you to carry what LEOs carry. As you can mirror their justifications. So I looked to the FBI who have been analyzing rounds and making reccomendations on performance since before most of you were born. Some abide by it some hate it. I will state ahead of time we all will have arguing opinions though I doubt any of us are qualified to truly dismiss it all together. Let us begin with the words of FBI Agent Urey Patrick "Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet." You can read his work here. Handgun wounding factors and effectiveness. http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf In it you will find all the explanation of handgun wounding you can handle.
  19. Parks and Cleve. Check the Glock page as I dumped a ton of penetration knowledge on there.
  20. No offense Cleve and not attacking you but where does this come from? I keep hearing people say it? There are self defense shootings everyday and I've yet to hear anything about a specific round having anything to do with making or breaking the justification for use of deadly force? Also please define over-penetration
  21. I need it the next 2 weekends after that you can run it for a week or so to try it out.
  22. It's a great tool to use with new shooters. We use SIRTs in our classes prior to live fire to work on Grip, Stance, Trigger etc. We show them all the ways a bad trigger press deviates the shot. We can talk about it all day but when someone new actually see what is happening it sticks. That makes it much easier to correct in live fire when we reference back to it.
  23. Dibs in OWB and any mags Top left doesn't take.
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