Rod38um

If that is the case, eating pork is still a sin.... how hard is that to grasp?

As I said, its covered under Adultery (10 commandments) Its defined as any type of sexual activity between people that is not sanctified by marriage.

Not sure how it applies, but okay

Affirmative action is an over reach, race needs to be neutral, not rewarded or punished.

When investigating a crime, motive needs to be determined, but the crime itself should carry the sentence, not the motive.. premeditated murder of someone your own race is the same as premeditated murder of someone of a different race.

Good to hear that!

I just don't understand though why people have to be intolerant of others, it just seems unhuman to me.

I dont agree with intolerance either. I dont think any true Christians does. But, as I said earlier, this is where non-christians get confused. They see that if someone labels something a sin, that they are intolerant and that is simply very far from the truth.

Just because I choose to vote against legalizing a sin does not make me intolerant. Only those who choose to distort my motives can so easily call my actions intolerant.

Voting to keep DDT illegal does not make me intolerant of farmers.

Voting pro-life does not make me intolerant of women.

Voting pro-business does not make me intolerant of the poor.

Voting pro=marriage does not make me intolerant of homosexuals.

I'd fight tooth and nail for your right to practice whatever religion you want...

I'm not anti-christian any more than I am anti-gun. I'm against those with guns infringing on others right to life, and those with religions infringing on others right to liberty.

Given our conversation, thats kind of a stretch for me to believe.

How do you feel about affirmative action?

How do you feel about hate crime laws?

The sinful part is already legal, the part that is illegal is just being recognized as a single entity.

Nowhere in the bible does it say a man shall not marry a man, and a woman shall not marry a woman...

Nowhere in the law does it say that its illegal to shoot someone and then dump the body into a wood chipper but its implied that since it causes death that those are illegal actions.

If it becomes legal then there should be no obligation for a church to do something they do not believe in, but a church is not the only place to get married. Although religion preaches tolerance, yet churches are some of the most hateful and intolerant places that exist.

At my grandman-in-laws church considers drinking a sin and they are not aloud to go any place that has alcohol... Yet they all go to Walmart and krogers... They sell alcohol there do they not? Yet I get badmouthed every time I drink around them.

In this case I might as well be a homo, they are very intolerant people and always bad mouth everybody. Shit like that makes me glad I'm an atheist.

I understand many Christians are against the use of alcohol or at least its abuse. I personally have never met a Christian that believed drinking alcohol was a sin. That is not to say that some folks dont get caught up in the word of man confusing it sometimes with the word of God. Its also not uncommon for non christians to confuse the labeling of ones actions as sin, for christian arrogance or when a christian commits a sin as hypocrisy. That is simply a lack of understanding of the christian faith.

Funny, this isn't about me, it's about civil rights...

Marriage used to be a property exchange, dowry and new wife became property...

Now marriage is a union between 2 consenting adults to work together in their life...

Why deny 2 individuals the right to be recognized by their state as a single entity simply because of their genitals?

As a Christian, Websters and I define marriage as:

"The social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc."

And I will not vote to support it. Ever. You can go sin all you want to........ I'll pray for you but I will not vote to legalize your sin.

Zealot, full of zeal, extremely commited to an idea or ideology, a fanatic...

As opposed to moderate...

Does that make you an atheist zealot?

Aha, so the bigotry comes before the bible.. cause if they are allowed to get married, then it would no longer be adultery...would it? (No matter how liberal your definition of adultery)

If your hatred for christians and fear that a God may actually exist is such that you have to twist everything to suit your wants instead of applying a little honest effort towards education, thats up to you...........

So if your personal beliefs aren't being censored and you're still free to believe and worship in whatever you want, then what does the marital status of your hypothetical next door neighbors have anything to do with how you live your life?

Read my previous post.

Separation of church and state... That would fix this whole situation, why should someone elses "SIN" matter to anyone else? .

Its not so much that someone elses sin matters to me. I mean, my wish is that they recognize it and repent so they can be saved but its the same wish for a thief, etc. etc.

The act of homosexual sex in itself is just a sin. For a Christian to accept or endorse gay marriage is like accepting stealing as an honest living or contract killing as an honest living. Its the same as us telling God that he must accept this because people do it. To steal something can be forgiven. To say that I am going to steal everyday and that my church, my religion and my God better be ok with it is quite a different thing. So while I'm not going into someones bedroom and telling them what they can or can can not do. I am not going to vote to legalize something that thumbs its nose at my religion and my God.

There are also legal issues. If it legalized then could my pastor be sued for discrimination because he wont marry them? That would be forcing the government into dictating religion.

And again with the persecution complex. Let me ask you this simple question: If Sally and Suzy get married and live next door, how, exactly, does that censor your ability to express your beliefs?

It doesnt..... not at all.

Okay, let's use that, find me any mention of homosexuality in the new testament or the 10 commandments...

Ever work a Saturday? Exodus 20:4 of the 10 commandments regards your Saturday work as a sin...

Thats covered under adultry.

Exodus is the old testament

Christianity does expect that christians will never sin. it knows they will. We all sin, the point is to recognize it, do your best to not sin. Thats where non christians get hung up. Yes I have worked sundays if thats your next question.......

There's the persecution complex again. I'm intolerant of Christians who attempt to foist their beliefs on me. If you want to believe in God, do it on your own time. I even think there was a couple New Testament (since I clearly can't use the Old) verses about that...

I would never force my beliefs on you. I am tolerant of non-believers but I am not tolerant of those like you that are so intolerant of others that they desire censor my ability to express my beliefs.

Thankfully the Constitution says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" So I have the right to express those views. I even have the right to carry those views to voting booth and to my elected office if I choose to run for one.

Because you haven't explained it...

Explain why one is a sin and one is not... they are clearly both forbidden in the same book of leviticus...

If one is no longer a sin, both are no longer a sin.

I have explained and you insist on calling rules sin and calling sin sin.

Maybe you should take the time to actually read the bible instead of hand picking parts that someone very ignorant told you to hand pick.

If you dont want to actually read it........ for simplicities sake, just consider the 10 commandments as your guide to sin and dont reference anything but the new testament.

So the sins you like to commit: bacon, tatoos, shaving are fine, but the sins you don't like to commit: sex with guys, are bad...

If the sin is still a sin, you need to repent for your sausage lust...

And we need to immediately outlaw johnsonville, and run those sinners out of business...

How do you have special pleading for one rule in leviticus, but ignore the rest from leviticus? Must be some reason that 1 sin is still active when the rest of the sins are not...

Alright. I'm convinced that your just playing stupid to be irritating because nobody of even modest intelligence can still be confused after having something explained so many times.

Ah, OR's resident bigot. I'm not even going to bother to debate you since I think your body of arguments reasonably proves you to be a massive bigot, so I'll just say that your presence in this thread is not surprising, and for you to get your fundy religion the fuck out of my legislature.

I bet if you have kids.... they are some twisted little rascals. let em play on the roof, let em play with dangerous household products, let em stay out as long as they want, go where they want. Otherwise you would just prove your hatred for kids right?

Same concept........ just because you are concerned about your fellow man, does not make you a bigot. Refusing to support something that we view as dangerous to someones eternal life is no different than refusing to support driving while intoxicated. You just get all hung up on putting words into people mouth because it is actually YOU who is intolerant of others. You are intolerant of Christians.

My point is that homosexual sex is one of those sins of the old testament that no longer applies... its from the same book as the rest of the sins I mentioned... if they no longer apply, that one is included in those that no longer apply...

Again.... as we have covered before.... a sin is still a sin...... the rules in the old testament were about how to avoid and or atone for sin.......... a sin was a sin then and is still a sin. After Jesus, the rules dont apply because the sin is paid for.

And before you blame your abrahamic religion for your bigotry, you better go back and read that section of leviticus again... it also forbids bacon, ham, lobster, shrimp, calamari, oysters, clams, crabs, and sausage... forbids you to shave the sides of your head, or the sides of your beard, and forbids tattoos... so until you're prepared to outlaw barber shops, tatoo parlors, red lobster, and every restaurant that serves breakfast... cool it with the "sinner" lifestyle argument.

I fail to understand how someone can grow up in our society and still be so ignorant of Christianity. You and I and others have been over this with you before and yet you still spread disinformation as if you have a hatred for Christians........

A sin is a sin...... after Jesus, they are paid for, the rules of the old testament dont apply. Please stop trying to distort things.

Recognizing a sin and refusing to support it does not equal bigotry. It doesn't make you homophobic. It simply means that you recognize that this person is a sinner and your compassionate desire for that person is that they turn away from what ever sin they are committing and be saved. It really doesn't matter to a Christian what the sin is..........

Which is why I donate money to the Tea Party. The Tea Party isn't real concerned about who the president is just as long as they can change the scope of congress, the president can either go along or veto everything. A democrat may veto a bunch of stuff but he has to let some stuff through. A republican most likely will go along whether he's in total agreement or not just for the sake of the party. The way I see it, tea party members are the only ones advocating a smaller less intrusive government and responsible spending...... so they get my support!

There are women at my job that make more money than me that haven't been there as long and work less(a few guys also)...what's this about equal pay?

No, its about taking the USA into socialism. Julia is an Obama example of a female who, under his plan, is dependent on the government throughout her entire life. It shows all the programs and services that she could use for all her needs. Obviously he thinks women cant provide for themselves...... or he's just trying to buy their vote.

all I want is a level playing field. eveyone chips in equally. get rid of all this loop hole exemptions bull crap. like apple is reported to have been able to skip out of paying a few billion dollars in taxes this year because of loop holes they use. where they keep their money, where they list their headquarters. in las vegas I think it is where there is some kind of taxless system for companies there. something to that effect.

of course I can't blame them for using it but why are they even able to? that's bullshit. if you tried to list your home at a place like that but live where you do the IRS wouldn't let you even try that crap.

See I think the fact that any company has to pay any taxes is ludicrous. The only thing that taxes on companies does is require them to raise the price of their product and it makes it more difficult for them to compete with foreign companies whose base country has lower corporate tax rates. the end result is higher inflation, and jobs lost to overseas markets. Both of which make our economy and standard of living lower.

If we took away corporate tax and streamlined our regulation, companies would be beating down our door trying to locate here and employ our people!!!

Bringing back companies that make TV sets and refrigerators here will not result in a fixed economy, only bankrupt businesses and $5,000 refrigerators.

That would be correct if you tried to legislate that companies stay here or pay a penalty. I do not advocate government intervention. What I advocate is creating the environment through taxes and regulations reform that companies choose to do business here because it is cheaper than doing it elsewhere. I dont realy want the government to receive a dime from a company. I'd like to see companies exist here free of charge, employ people in there factories and those people would add to the treasury via the income tax they pay. Any job is better than no job.

I think you're all backwards, we cut taxes on wages earned through work, and raise taxes on earned interest...

"Money you work for, you keep, money you get for nothing, gets taxed" just my opinion.

That always sounds good and honestly, it gets lots of people elected. But either way the consumer pays either through taxes or in your way through increased product costs. the main difference is in your way, all the jobs are overseas. In the republican way (if you can stop liberal interference) the jobs are here so you can afford to pay something.

Remember,If you have more available workers than you have jobs, workers are cheap, there are people standing in line to take you place if you dont like your wages. But when there are more jobs than available workers, Good workers are paid a premium to keep them around because the employer cant find someone to replace you.

If we ever want jobs back.... a middle class back.... we have to be viewed as business friendly on all fronts. taxes, regulation and workers.

Socialism =/= communism

We already have socialism, with a sprinkle of capitalism tossed in for good measure...

I think thats the first thing you ever said that I didnt immediately want to argue with you about.....lol