Sunseeker270

I'm with you on being open minded, and maybe having a little empathy, but I think the way you framed your initial argument is what lead this whole discussion astray.

But you also realize a lot of it IS how you are raised. When you're raised to fear guns since guns = bad guys or police, then you have these situations. People are raised differently and have different cultures. That's why I can't hate on jbot for eating cats and dogs because that's OK for him, I'm not here to judge. I'm just here to follow the laws of the land in the country I'm in, try to change the ones I don't agree with, and reinforce the ones I do - which, it appears that's what this guy was doing.

Totally agree and do apoligize for how I framed initial opinions. Can I get any points for being on heavy cold medication during my rant?

For the record I totally agree that you have every legal right to carry open and not be harassed. But don't you think it's just as selfish to carry open and not at least think about how others may see you? You said many people ask if you're a cop. Do you like that? Maybe you like the power that it portrays. Just playing devils advocate to whether you should vs I legally can so screw the rest. It is a "me first society" after all. since when did it become a victim mentality to put yourself in someone else's shoes to see how your actions may affect others. Guess that's the way I was raised. Guess I was raised in a dysfunctional home.

Deterrence. Did you really think I was comparing dogs to criminals or are you just screwing with me? The idea was to demonstrate that there are invisible deterrents.

We totally agree that people have the legal right to open carry and not be harassed. Is it so wrong to explore other viewpoints? I would apologize for having an open mind but I'll pass. I find it more beneficial to be open minded. Closed and narrow mindedness has led to pretty bad things in this world....including Nazis.

I heard something about that. Apparently the Philly cops spent the day harassing Open Carry citizens and now they are trying to cover their tracks so they won't get sued. I smell a conspiracy.

It's continuing because I've been home sick and I'm bored so I chose this thread to stir some shit up. I really have no idea why others keep replying to me. I don't really care about the topic but it looked like one that had some staying power. My goal was 10 pages. I think I could have gone 12 possibly 13 but I'm feeling better now.

I doubt it, really. Maybe if the known CCW population of Ohio was closer to 50% it might be, but most people know hardly anyone carries; only 3% of Ohioans have CHLs.

I didnt post that.

Concealed carry cannot be a deterrent if your firearm is hidden. The sign prohibiting carry is an invitation. Those are two big differences.

Not to beat a dead horse but why cant a CC law in a city be a deterrent? Does a deterrent have to be visible? I have an electric dog fence. My dogs don't go near it. Even with no collars! Can't one be deterred by the notion that there may be armed civilians in the store he is about to knock off?

All's well. Just don't cry and ask Ben to cancel your OR.net subscription. I don't think I can tolerate any more pants-peeing this week.

Would never cancel. Like I said, too much comic relief here.

I'm not upset about anything. Your opinion is fine' date=' but it isn't supported by statistics. So, it's just that... an opinion. I don't believe you're a twat. You're probably a super cool dude. You just happen to be on the wrong side of the numbers in your argument.

For future reference... I'm an asshole. Don't take anything I post on this board personally.[/quote']

Point taken on the asshole thing! ; ). Never meant my position to be anything but my opinion. Sorry if it didn't come off that way. It annoys me to put IMHO and IMO on everything. Thought that was assumed. If I want to sound intelligent (which is rare) I'll be sure to footnote and cite my sources.

1) lol, are you telling me you've see criminals carrying openly committing a crime?

2) Why is it I should have to put myself into other peoples shoes? You never hear "why don't you put yourself into the open carriers shoes."?

3) Where are you getting your real life experiences from? 4) Do you frequent forums of open carriers and their experiences? 5) Or do you only listen to the few things the slanted news leads you to believe?

1 Most criminals do not carry open. They realize that concealing their weapon, gathering info on the target, then executing the crime far outweighs broadcasting what they have.

2 I say that because like I said before OC in this part of the country it is not common and when you approach certain people, it puts them on edge. Not your problem, I get it but the mom who just watched a school or mall shooting on the news may be on edge when you walk by the school exercising your rights.

3 I don't frequent too many forums because I have a busy life and have found that they are full of people like me who just feel like ranting sometimes. I don't treat forums as a serious source of info. This is a great forum of people who like to bike and bust each others balls. I laugh my ass off at the things you guys write but a serious source of info? And mainstream news? Don't they just push their own agenda?

4 IMHO (sorry-I should be putting this in front of everything but I thought is was assumed as I have cited nothing) CC sure seems like a deterrent to me. If I was a thug I would rob every store with a posted sign that prohibits CC. I know that no one in that store has a gun. If I was a thug I would rather live in a state with no CC allowed. I would know that more than likely, anywhere I went to rob, I'm the only one with a gun. And in those states, if there was only OC, I could easily spot those people. Everyone can. Sorry, there I go again putting myself in other's shoes.

Disclaimer- IMHO-----IMHO------IMHO

Hmm.. the Chevy driving hillbilly caught the gist. I guess BMW guys really are twats.

Are you really upset about my opinions? Are you that sensitive? Didn't realize a difference of opinion was not allowed. Twat? Shit man, how old are you?

This. I don't care if you open carry it or conceal it. I haven't once told you sunseeker, that concealing it is dumb and asking for trouble. But your reasonong of why not to OC are very mislead. You say that is is my fault the cop harassed me because he was having a bad day. I say I will not give up my liberties because a cop doesn't know his duty.

I totally agree with john. To each his own. My original thought was that I don't get the upside other than because you can. My preference is CC. In my field of work (not a cop) you have to think like a criminal. If I was going to shoot up a school, mall, rob etc. I would take out the threats first. OC is not a deterrent if I have the drop. A deterrent is where are the guns i cant see! Any columbus residents remember the officer that was shot at the whitehall 5/3 bank. Robber took him out first then robbed. If an OC citizen were in line, he would be next. Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I realize I went off topic in that the original post was how the police handled the Philly situation so I apologize. I will just take my twat and BMW to my room and think about my actions.

Wow. So personal. Twat. So adult.

Actually I do carry concealed almost everywhere. Like they say, I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by six. I just wonder if you choose where you carry open. Would you carry open walking down parsons ave or livingston ave & oakwood ave. or would you just do this in suburbia where you are most likely in the company of law abiding citizens. My guess is you would cover that puppy up in the ghetto where the predators are. Be bold and righteous amongst the middle class.

Why would I want to ask people around me and bring attention to my self? How many bad guys do you see walk around with guns out in the open on their hips? You think the guy walking in to rob the gas station is wearing his on is belt in a serpa retention holster? Or does he have it stuffed in his waistband or pocket?

Why do I?

*I have nothing to hide.

*A right not exercised is a right lost.

*I find the deterrent factor outweighs the "tactical surprise" in many cases.

*If someone sees me open carrying a gun and not being a threat to them, hopefully that helps guns rights and to get rid of many of the stupid anti gun laws.

*It is easier to draw from a holster outside my pants than having to lift my shirt and draw it from inside my waistband.

Well it is comforting to know that all the guns I see on people's hips are good law abiding citizens. Comfort level is not a protected right, true. But my point is some time you have to put yourself in other people's shoes. The cop who just got shot at or the convenience store employee who just got robbed may be a little alarmed. Guess not an issue as long as you can exercise all your rights. Again my opinion. I have not googled a research paper on this subject. I prefer to get my information from actual life experiences. Carry concealed. Saves you from carrying around a recorder, memorizing city codes, And suing cities. Seems like alot of work.

It's a good thing some police are willing to violate our rights for doing absolutely nothing illegal. Ridiculous. I seriously can't believe you see nothing wrong with a citizen, who has rights, being treated this way for being well within the law. I'd love to see you get treated this way for doing nothing wrong and then lets see how your tune would change.

I totally agree that it is legal and you have the right to not be harassed. BUT this is not a state where it is common place and arouses suspicion when a person walks down the street with a sidearm exposed. Do your own stats. Next time your out open carrying, ask those around you if they are uncomfortable that you are standing next to them with an exposed gun. What if a guy is walking in a known drug area of town strapped? What if a guy in suburbia does it? Guarantee the guy in the drug area will get a thousand calls to 911 and he will be questioned. Guess the guy in suburbia should be left alone. It's a no-win for police. Again, it's not can you, it's should you? Why do you?

refer to his previous posts and the ones i bolded. he takes the time out of his day to essentially say that all open carriers are attention whores who want to sue cities, does nothing to back it up or "prove the point" other than saying it's coming "from a common sense/tactical perspective". only that he has no time to read actual research to quantify his beliefs and back up his points. i have nothing against anyone having opinions. If you're refuting a point of contention, more substance is needed.

You're actually pretty close jbot. Legal or not, in a large city, there is no reason to carry open unless you want the attention. Nothing wrong with that. Guys who are insecure or somehow inadequate do it all the time. Short guys who get the big 4x4 trucks, etc. Just own it! I don't need stats to back it up. I live it. Talk to a thug some time and ask them about how they operate. More organized than you think.

why would i call you names when you already have such a good one, uncle pink? Also, i was in that thread. it's not exactly canon material.

playing devil's advocate is sad when you're being half hearted about it.

That's my time for the day.

I dont have time to research news articles. I'm just saying from a common sense/tactical stance, I don't understand the open carry. I don't want anyone to know I'm armed. If shit goes south, I can dictate when to react versus a dirtbag shooting me in the back because he knows I'm armed. Now he has 2 guns!

How is that looking for a confrontation? I open carry a lot and carry a voice recorder. I'm not looking for trouble but if something goes down, I have some proof to back me up.

When you carry open in a big city you will be noticed by whoever is around you. Police, citizens, bad guys, etc. It just seems that if you feel the need to walk around with a recorder, you must feel that at some point, you will be confronted and need to explain yourself. Never understood the open carry thing and why you would want to broadcast to people you are armed. If I am a bad guy and planned to raise hell, I would take out the obvious threats first. Guess what, you're that threat.

Dude was looking for a confrontation with police. Open carry a glock in Philly with a recorder? That was made for YouTube! Right or wrong, do as the police say, then sue. That's a dangerous game.

I might swing by. I'll email you for details. Sounds like your close to me.

I'm a new biker but got tired of buying small and outgrowing after a season on other rec vehicles. Did it with boats and rvs because I thought I couldn't handle larger ones. IF you take a course and use their little Buell, you should have no problem advancing to a larger bike and feeling comfortable. Course my bike is like an SUV and I don't do the type of riding most of these guys do so for what it's worth.

I think an obvious accessory would be a weed whacker attachment. Then you have the option of blowing the stubborn weeds out of the ground.

Has anyone seen one of these yet? I don't know why but I must have one....For when the Zombies come.

Nice interior! If you could fix that side door so nobody locks you in, that would double as a nice sleeping quarters when you get to your destination.

My buddy and I took off work and rode to Berlin. 220 miles. Windy as hell! Bike covered with road grit and horse shit but totally worth it.