I use the same 85/15 beef roll from Krogers and it's nearly impossible unless you over cook it so it crumbles like crazy, but still is never as fine as the Bell's. If you can though imagine how long it would take the Bell to get that done with real beef. Orders would take forever. My brother managed one when he was in college and he said until the meat was gone they just added water to it to bring it back alive the next day.