hattrix

Fusion, did you ever hear back from them about the windshield height? I am curious now too.

The actual code says, "using safety glasses or other protective eye device". Then says, "other protective eye device shall conform with regulations prescribed and promulgated by the director of public safety". The director's site points you to the BMV site for reference to "other protective eye device." Basically, he is counting windshields as such. They just messed up by not referencing any size requirements. I just found that the BMV falls under the direction of the Ohio Dept of Public Safety. So, if the BMV says it, than it is from the Dept of Public Safety and thus from the Director of Public Safety. Based on the law, wind screens are "other protective eye device". http://www.publicsafety.ohio.gov/aboutus.asp

As I stated in the other room...truce. It is dumb for us to fight. We are both intelligent, passionate individuals. Honestely, I have respect for you because you are passionate. I let my passion get the better of me, I apologize. Honestly, this goes to you too Ben. The reality is, we share a bond through biking that many don't. We shouldn't trash that by letting our other passions get the better of us. I say to you both, truce brothers. Oh, and fusion, considering what you have done, especially Air Force, I truely apologize for the "pathetic life" comment. You have done more for this country than I could hope to and I respect what you have done greatly.

by the way, the law states that the "other eye protection" has to be of that approved by the department of public safety. If you go to their website and search wind screen, it brings you another version of the PDF that says wind screens are eye protection. It is the "other eye protection" that allows for windscreens to act in their place. Stupidly, they don't tell you the height it has to be. So, you could get off just by saying you had a wind screen on your sport bike.

http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/pdf_forms/3741.pdf check out page 11. No feelings hurt. Look, I apologize, I think we both kind of attacked each other when it wasn't needed. I very passionate about freedom being taken away. I let that go too far I think. Can we call a truce?

http://bmv.ohio.gov/misc/new_resident.htm I know I am lazy but here is the link to the BMV that specifically says that eye protection is NOT required if you have wind screen!

Like I told Ben, I am an ass to assholes. You fit the bill

I came here to talk to COOL people and find COOL people to ride with. You and fusion don't fit into either category. I came here to talk to people about issues facing bikers. You come back with false and illogical arguments. I am far from a jackass. I am an ass to people who don't think or act like asses.

First, I have blown every argument you have made out of the water. The one proving to be dumb is you. Second, I told you to give me one study that proves second hand smoke kills. Your great response is show me a study!! I told you there aren't any. HAHAHA. Nice!! How can I provide evidence against studies that disagree with me when there aren't any studies!!!???? Now, I am older than you, have a degree, working on MBA, lived in 3 different states, been to four countries and studied History. What have you done in your pathetic life? HAHA Show me a study. You are a riot. I ask for study, you say you know people that cough!! HAHA You are the most clueless individual I have ever talked to on a chat board.

Stupid, So the AMA is stupid? Good to know that they agency fighting for your rights is stupid I pulled it from them. I don't have all day to go looking through the code. I trust the AMA. Talk to them. As for stupid, one need only read your posts to see that. He did hassle him for a stupid reason. God, how far up the police and government's asses are you? On the other post you make posts as dumb as here. In case you didn't notice, I am not the only one who posted the windshield thing. Your big responses are people are retarded and stupid? HAHA. Name calling, the last bastion of the illiterate, ill-informed and uneducated.

Ben, not mad. Just hate when people are apathetic about freedoms being taken away or when people blindly follow what the TV tells them. Fusion, I said there is no CREDIBLE EVIDENCE. That would mean studies to prove what you are saying. Personal experience is not proof. Not even close to proof. I do believe I said that there is "UNCREDIBLE PROOF" for people who are exposed long term but of course you ignored that. That would cover people who live with smokers and people who work at places where there is smoking. They can choose not to work there. It is called freedom. I know this whole freedom thing is a foreign concept to you but you should try it, it can be nice. Finally, there are still no credible studies that prove there are long term lasting effects from exposure to second hand smoke. Even among people who work in those fields. California has had a smoking ban for 15 years. Studies show NO decrease in cancer rates among bartenders and waitresses. NONE! As for your last thing. I do that. I am trying to get people here to realize that there freedoms are being eroded. You don't care about an issue where freedoms are being taken and you ignore it. It gets taken away. Then, another freedom is taken away and you don't care about the issue so you ignore it. Then eventually an issue comes that you do care about and you lose that freedom and won't understand why. Just wake up and realize what you are giving up each time you allow ANY freedom to be taken.

The guy just left a signal. He wasn't going fast and the cop saw that it hadn't been up for an extended period of time. The spirit of the law wouldn't be to HASSLE the guy by pulling him over and running his id. Your "example" was for the letter of the law. Pull him over, run his tags. That is letter. The cop only needed to remind him on the mic. Clearly the guy forgot. That is WTF I am talking about. As for the previous post. The BMV doesn't note it but on the Ohio law it says "unless a wind screen is present".

BUUUULLLLLSSHHHHHIIIIIITTTT There is NO proof that second hand smoke kills people. Good thing you have a sheep as your icon because that is what you are. Blindly following what they tell you. Ask your doctor to give you the proof that second hand smoke has killed anyone. There is NO credible proof that second hand smoke kills anyone AND the uncredible "proof" is from studies where people are exposed to second hand smoke for very extended periods of time. Offer one SHRED of evidence before you make an assertion that it kills people every day. NOTHING and I MEAN NOTHING says that being exposed to second hand smoke in a bar or restaurant for a couple hours will have ANY lasting effect whatsoever. All I can say to you is BAAAAH BAAAAH! Keep listening to the insurance companies tell you their lies. Seriously, ask your doctor for one study that proves that second hand smoke kills. I promise you, he won't come up with one because one doesn't exist. It is a complete and utter MYTH!!! Not to mention there is PROOF that people get killed by drunk drivers. Honestly, there is more credible evidence to make drinking illegal than smoking! Now it is the politicians? I thought we make the laws?? Hmmm. Politicians, no matter what they say will vote for what gets them votes. If enough people speak out about a law, the politician will vote against it. That is what I am trying to do. Get people like you to understand that it is the politicians and unless you speak out against government taking your freedom, they will keep voting for it. They will vote with the loudest voice.

Would that mean you are going by the spirit of the law??? Because the letter of the law says windscreen. It doesn't indicate ANY height.

Benyan Soljax, Can I get some of what you are smoking??? Laws are voted on by the people??? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Very few are. Most are passed by legislatures not by the people. How many people voted for Income Tax (which until put into place by congress was unconstitutional)? NONE!!! Congress put it in. How many people voted for the speed limit? NONE!!! Congress did that. How many people voted for minimum wage? NONE!!! How many people voted for a Helmet law in most states?? Most of the time NONE!! It is put into place by politicians not the people. The politicians enact laws based on whether it will get them votes or lose them votes. You have to be joking that we pass the laws?? As for smoking laws...YOU think that life is better in bars and restaurants. Some smokers do not. How many people thought eating in restaurants was better during prohibition??? Probably a lot. I bet many didn't think so though. I bet restaurant owners wanted to make the decision which customers they pleased. Government took that right away. What do you like to do? Does everybody like it? Probably not. What happens when the government takes that right away. Should I not care because I don't like it? No!! I do care because it is another freedom taken away. People, one last time, don't stand for the law, stand against the revocation of rights.

Actually, the law states.... Eye ProtectionRequired by law unless equipped with windscreen No heighth is given. So by the letter of the law, you can have a Road King Custom with it's tiny little metal windscreen and not need eye protection. You would be an idiot and it far from meets the spirit of the law, but you could do it. So, legally, assuming this person was on a sport bike, they did nothing wrong.

I did mention the warning made it a little better. People just don't like being hasseled. The distance she is talking about in the original post is VERY short. The area has about 4 stop lights in a row. They weren't up to speed yet. The cop was hasseling them. Notice, the first cop didn't pull them over. Obviously, he made a choice. Additionally, I am assuming the rider was on a sport bike. If so, that has a windshield. Someone pointed out that the law states you don't have to wear eye protection if you have a windshield. If it was a sport bike, there is a windshield. So, by the letter of the law, no eye protection was required. So, the cop wasn't following the law and the person didn't violate any laws. I said government hackness as in you are a government hack who thinks the cops do no wrong. I spent 4 years working closely with cops. I met plenty of bad eggs. It is clear a few of you will support cops no matter what they do, even when it is ridiculous, and nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise.

I want to make it very clear. I don't hate cops. I worked very closely with them for 4 years. Most are good men who have a crappy job that puts there lives on the line every day. Most do the right thing. However, there are ones who like the power. There are ones that like the fear they get from people when they pull them over. All I am saying is that a little basic common sense by cops is all that we need. I agree that the cop did give him a warning and at least he was good enough for that. The point was, he never had to pull him over.

No, they don't leave for crimes. When they pull someone over they go 10-6. They will leave is they see it but the dispatcher WILL not call them to the crime if they are 10-6. They will call someone else. Cops also are there to be a presence in the neighborhood to deter crime. Can't be much of a PRESENCE on the side of the road talking to a biker for no good reason. HE DIDN'T HAVE TO PULL HIM OVER!! Are you guys this brain dead. HE SAW HIM JUST TAKE OFF FROM THE LIGHT!!! He has a mic that he could remind him of the visor. He pulled him over to look for other things!! Period. GOD!!! The cop apologists in this room are ridiculous. You think cops don't hassle people??? They pull people over for BS all the time. Notice this was in Worthington? Notice the one I posted before was in Hilliard? They do it in suburbs because they are bored. Notice you never hear, "I was pulled over for my visor being up on Parsons Ave." That is because they are busy fighting real crime. Oh and the cop didn't LET ME go. I wasn't even there. I wasn't the involved. As with many who have accepted this is BS, I am a taxpayer sick of cops using the power to pull people over for stupid reasons. Stupid ass line?? I am tired of people thinking they know what a cops job is. Cops don't HAVE to pull people over. They aren't robots or traffic cams. They can use common sense. Try it sometime, you might like it. How bad would the cop feel if 10 minutes down the road a woman in a broken down car was raped and beaten and if he hadn't pulled the guy over, he would have been driving by and stopped it. We can all live in hypotheticals fireman. The reality is, the pull over was bs and your constant defense of cops is bs. They do things wrong. I know that is hard to accept but they do.

Fusion, First, if I want to write a book, I can write a book. Second, there was nothing "barely readable" about it unless you are used to picture books (which is apparently the case with you). Now as for the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law isn't to hassle. The spirit isn't to use the law to find out other information. The spirit is to protect. A simple word with the mic was sufficient. Clearly the guy just took off and the cop knew it. If he saw him riding down the freeway or on a long stretch, pulling over makes sense. When he saw him take off from the light, he knew it wasn't a long stretch. We may sound like teenagers being hasseled by the man but you sound like a freaking government hack who thinks the cops can do no wrong. Hate to break it to you, but I have been around enough cops to know they DO hassle people for no reason and they DO enjoy doing it. So here is an idea, let's drop your zombie-government-worshipping hackness and accept that we can be upset when we have been hassled and we are sick of it. WAS THIS LONG ENOUGH FOR YOU?? I can make it longer next time.

Ok, we have gone over this before and I will say it one last time. Many of the people complaining DIDN'T GET PULLED OVER!!!! They are the people paying the cops salary with their taxes. Down the side of the cops car it says "to protect and serve". I guess it could be said that the cop was protecting the guy but he absolutely was NOT serving the rest of us. The time and gas used to pull this guy over could have been better served fighting CRIME and not INFRACTIONS. Do you not see the difference? Crime, hurts people. Infractions, rarely hurt people. The analogy of you with employees is ludicrous. Your employees don't pay you!! You pay them and give them the privledge of working for you. Cops work for us and we give them the privledge of working for us by paying our taxes. We have the right to be pissed when they waste our money being stupid. A better analogy would be that YOUR boss has the right to be pissed when YOU stupidly discipline employees. We pay the cops. We can complaind when they act retarded. Yes it is an INFRACTION. However, he could have just as easily pulled along side and used his mic to say put your visor down. Pulling the guy over was a power trip. Nothing more, nothing less. Defending stupidity allows stupidity to remain rampant. There are laws on the books in some states from 200 years ago that have never been taken off. They aren't enforced anymore because they are stupid. Should cops still enforce them because, well, the law is the law. There is such a thing as "the spirit in which the law was intended." Many times REAL crimes are dismessed because the spirit in which the law was intended was followed. The blind defense of stupidity is exactly why our government is slowly taking away our rights!!!

Smokey, that is just the problem. They take the freedoms away piece by piece. Many people don't need to worry about smoking laws so they don't oppose it. Many people don't need to worry about helmet laws so they don't oppose it. Eventually, they will get to something you love but that many people don't need to worry about it. It isn't the issue you should stand for, it is the revocation of our liberties that you should stand against. I know the Nazi references are extreme but they were to make a point. Our freedoms get slowly eroded day by day. Slowly government keeps getting more involved in our lives. One day we will wake up and wonder what happened to our freedom. Apathy is the killer of liberty, not guns.

Won't go any further? Like the smoking laws. California is the state to watch. They seem to do everything first. They were one of, if not the first to pass smoking bans. Other states followed. Smokers said, well, it will stop there and at least we can smoke outside the door. Then the laws were changed to anywhere within 15 feet of a door. So smokers said, it will stop there and we can still smoke outdoors. Then the laws were changed to ban beaches, college campuses, and many other outdoor areas. Now they are proposing laws to ban smoking anywhere in public outdoors or in. What it boils down to is the insurance lobby is VERY powerful. They have led the anti smoking campaign and the helmet and seat belt campaigns. California is their proving ground. Cali was one of the first for helmet laws. Now some cities are moving to restrict the use of bikes. Watch, as XB12 said, when the number of deaths don't go down much, they will start a new campaign. First it will be more age restrictions. Then it will be power restrictions. Then it will be limiting time bikes can be ridden. I hate to harp on the Nazi reference but Chamberlin and Roosevelt thought that if they let Hitler have the Rhineland he would stop there. He took Poland and Czechoslovakia soon after. Burying your head in the sand and hoping it goes away has proven to only fuel the drive of the opposition. Unless you stand up for your rights, the government will keep taking them away.

First, I should decide what I eat, what I wear, what I put in my body. Not the government. As long as I am not hurting others, why does it matter? People keep bringing up insurance. If I don't wear a helmet I am more likely to die in a crash. If I am wearing one, I live with life long injuries that need constant medical care. Which is more expensive? HMMM. Freedom is never taken away rapidly. It is eroded over time. Piece by piece. First they make you wear seatbelts and helmets. Then they tax luxury items. Then they take away smoking. Than they take away fast food. They take one piece at a time until you look around and think, "What the hell happened to my freedoms?" Hitler didn't rise to power in a day. It took a decade and it was slow. His early ideas made sense to most but some objected. Over time, all but a very small minority had something taken away that they wanted but by then it was too late. In case, you are wondering, no, I am not saying if you are for helmet laws you are a Nazi. I am saying that if you are for them, you are facilitating the rise to power of fascist government power that seeks to strip you of your rights. Fireman, I understand your emotional position, but each of those people that died undersood the risks they took riding without a helmet and accepted them. He hurt himelf and his family but no one else. Yes, there was a cost for you to respond to the accident but more than likely, you would have responded anyway. Then the guy would have had to go to the hospital, have wounds treated and get medications which would have cost more. I know it sounds heartless but their dying was cheaper to medical costs than living. The human loss is undeniable and sad but he chose that risk. Nobody should be allowed to decide to choose for him. Think, if you agree to helmet laws, the next logical progression is anti motorcycle laws. Both the cost-arguments and lifesaving-arguments still work for anti motorcycling laws as much for helmet laws. Let the rider decide. Oh, and yes, I wear a helmet so this isn't so I can ride 100 miles an hour on 270 with a bandana to protect my cranium.

I reserved mine but I am camping.