Difficulty setting sag on 1100 EVO

[smashweights]

So I've been meaning to get my suspension set up properly on the Duc since I got it as the ride seems pretty harsh. Got my dad and I out to set up my sag today and it seems like it's not even possible to get proper sag set. I used Evans Brasfield's 101 Sportbike Performance Projects to guide me and basically it looks like you measure the following between the front axle and the wiper:

(Topped Out, No Rider Gap) - (compressed rise w/rider + topped out drop with rider)/2

to get static sag. The book says ideal sag is 1.2 - 1.5" for street riding. The gap on my forks tops out at 5" and with preload at minimum the bike with rider rests at 2.5" and with preload maxed the bike rests at about 3.25". Aka: my static sag goes from 2.5" to 1.75", which seems absurd given that I'm only 150 lbs and anyone heavier than me would compress the forks more and result in even higher sag. Am I doing something wrong? All I feel like I've accomplished today was scrape up the nice red-anodized preload adjusters...

[Tpoppa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK3flKxf41U

[Hoblick]

You should be aiming for 30mm-35mm sag

You teally need another person. You on bike feet on pegs in riding position. Some steadying bike. Another taking measurements.

Also make sure when you do your initial measurement you get wheels off the ground.

[TSB67]

The 30~35mm target is from no rider to rider, not top-out to rider.

[smashweights]

The 30~35mm target is from no rider to rider, not top-out to rider.

Not according to my book or the video post above. In the video, they have 120mm for top out then measure rider on and adjust to get 37mm of sag with rider. My problem is that I can only seem to get 44-65mm of sag based on the limits of the preload adjuster.

Edited May 9, 2013 by smashweights

[TSB67]

I may be wrong. Was never a fan of rules-of-thumb anyway.

[smashweights]

so I've heard that the '12 Monster is "oversprung" but that seems weird if 35mm of sag is the goal that a 150 lbs rider would compress the forks too much?

[Tpoppa]

Does your evo have progressive springs?

[smashweights]

Does your evo have progressive springs?

No clue...

[Tpoppa]

At 150 lbs the recommended settings are probably really close. Have you checked the Duc boards?

Edited May 10, 2013 by Tpoppa

[Hoblick]

forget about the free sag, till you get static sag done.

measure the static sag (topped out to rider sag). get that measurement where it needs to be. once it sets, then go check the topped out to no rider (free sag)

if the measurement isnt where it needs to be then youll be able to determine if the free sag (topped out to no rider) is out or not. you can +/_ a few mm and be fine.

thats how it works.

if the number is smaller than it should be, then you know the spring is to hard.

if its more, then the spring is to soft.

but if you can accomplish static sag (topped out to rider) with the given spring without the preload being cranked all the way in or all the way out, you should be within the range of the spring.

the closer you get to being cranked in or out, the worse the free sag will be out of wack.

so my suggestion. measure topped out, then measure rider sag. get to your magic number. do front and rear. then go back and measure your static sag and see where your at.

free sag should be between 5 - 10 mm.

so lets just say you have a 125mm measurement topped out.

and say you get your static sag set to 35mm

your measurement then with you on it would be 95mm

so then free sag measurement would need to be between 115 - 120mm.. that would put your free sag in the right range.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Hoblick

[Hoblick]

if you need more help, i can lend a hand. not in the immediate future, but maybe in a week.

[blue03636]

The 30~35mm target is from no rider to rider, not top-out to rider.

No this is from top out to with rider but this is stiff for the street, 40-45 for the street.

[smashweights]

So Hoblick: I've measured my topped out yesterday as 5" (127mm) and with preload at minimum with me on the bike, the forks sit at 2.5" (63.5mm, 63.5mm sag). With preload maxed out, the suspension with me on it sits at 3.25" (82.5mm, 44.5mm sag).

If I understand things right, if my topped out measurement is 127mm, then with me on the bike, if I want 40mm of static sag, the bike should settle to 127-40 = 87mm.

That's where I'm running in to the issue, it seems that I can't set the static sag to the goal range, which seems weird because I'm on the lighter end of rider weights. Which means anyone heavier than me will compress the spring even more, which makes it seem like ANY rider on this bike will never get the sag set up right unless they weight like 110 lbs... I feel like I have to be doing something wrong here because there is no way a 150lbs. rider requires maximum preload on any motorcycle. The original owner of the bike was a solid 200+, so I'd be shocked if he had lightened the springs.

[blue03636]

It sounds like you are doing it right as long as you are measuring between the same points every time. Your math is correct. I can't imagine they put super light springs in those, most bike come with 0.8 springs with the newer ones around 0.9-0.95 which both should be too heavy for your weight.

[smashweights]

It sounds like you are doing it right as long as you are measuring between the same points every time. Your math is correct. I can't imagine they put super light springs in those, most bike come with 0.8 springs with the newer ones around 0.9-0.95 which both should be too heavy for your weight.

Will compression or rebound affect the measurements I get?

[blue03636]

Not really

[Hoblick]

Youd be suprised on how light the springs are. My multistrada is undersprung. My preload is maxed on the forks, and the shock im cranked up but still have some room to play. But new springs would be a big help, im just lazy and work on other peoples stuff, and never domy own.

But sounds like your doing it right.

Check the monster forums and see what those folks have to say

[smashweights]

Youd be suprised on how light the springs are. My multistrada is undersprung. My preload is maxed on the forks, and the shock im cranked up but still have some room to play. But new springs would be a big help, im just lazy and work on other peoples stuff, and never domy own.

But sounds like your doing it right.

Check the monster forums and see what those folks have to say

Hmm, weird. Why would they put springs in that only the lightest of the lightweight riders will be able to ride on properly?

[Tpoppa]

On my Buells I could never get 30-35mm of sag. It was always less than 30.

I think that rule of thumb works for most but not all bikes. I set my suspension based on feel, grip, and confidence.

[Hoblick]

Hmm, weird. Why would they put springs in that only the lightest of the lightweight riders will be able to ride on properly?

Most bikes are undersprung from the factory. I think they think anyone who buys them are gonna be in race trim of under 150lbs lol.

Get the sag close, go ride it and see what ya think. It may not be spot on, but if its close you may be happy with it. If not, time for new springs! And might as well put some ohlins valves in it while your in there

[Mary#17]

My husband's Monster S4RS with Ohlins front and back were very soft from the factory. We replaced them with heavier springs.

On my bike the springs were fine but I had to replace the valving. All the bikes are set up for different rides and most monster riders are more laid back and want a cushier ride. At least, I'm assuming that is the thought process.

Mary

[smashweights]

My husband's Monster S4RS with Ohlins front and back were very soft from the factory. We replaced them with heavier springs.

On my bike the springs were fine but I had to replace the valving. All the bikes are set up for different rides and most monster riders are more laid back and want a cushier ride. At least, I'm assuming that is the thought process.

Mary

That's just it, my ride is too harsh. I've been damn near ejected when I hit a series of bumps on the way to my parents place. My R6 was much more forgiving in the suspension.

[blue03636]

are you sure it isn't too stiff in compression?

[smashweights]

are you sure it isn't too stiff in compression?

Dont know, haven't messed with it that much. So where should I leave this preload set? Since I can't get the 35mm static sag set and I really dont feel I should be maxing the preload on this bike.