Advice needed

[20thGix]

Had a long story typed out but deleted it. So here is the long story short.

A company that I have interviewed with wants me to give them a compensation package; i.e., how much is it going to take for you to quit your job and work with us. Currently I wasn't looking for a job and have been for the most part happy with my current employer. A friend of mine referred me for the position. So after a couple interviews with them they seem eager to get me aboard.

So anywho, Ive never had to give a potential employer comp. package. During the interview today they never came out and said what it paid but hinted toward industry averages. One of the last things he said before I headed out the door was, "Don't give me an hourly wage but more as yearly income." even though its an hourly position. So I assume that's wages plus benefits like insurance and what have you.

I guess my questions are. Does this need to be in some form of a formal letter? He did say just give me a call or email him a figure. What all should I consider that im not thinking of? I do have all of there benefit information and what they do for their employees.

Im not desperate for a job as im comfortable where im at and have explained that to them also, but they still seem very interested. So any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

As of now im thinking start with:

My current wage +25%

+

There benefits offered to employees: $2500-$4000 yearly

I don't have any experience doing this. In the past its just "We'll give you X dollars an hour". Granted I haven't had a real interview for a job in a long time. So yeah, I'm all ears.

[ReconRat]

One thing often forgotten and easy to achieve, is keep your current accrued vacation or time-in-grade for vacation when moving over. Most companies will give that without a problem.

 

Moving expenses if you're going to move, or some sort of fuel/vehicle compensation if it's farther to drive.

Actual mileage compensation is something that is harder to get.

 

If it's a job that has state or federal contracts, go as high as a 40% increase in wages. Especially if military contracts.

 

If it's a red hot job, ask for a company car.

 

Asking a potential employee what wages is out right rude. I've had it happen and I didn't like it. Based on what? To do exactly what? What's the job description and working conditions? Wasn't enough details given yet, for me to pin a wage down. To try to negotiate without something offered in writing first to base it on, is a shoddy personnel/human resources department. And I've not experienced negotiations with any one other than a personnel or human resources. That's their job.

 

I've gone as high as a 40% increase, and a 20% cut when changing jobs. Sometimes available overtime will give it back.

Edited January 15, 2014 by ReconRat

[Revelstoker]

No need for a formal letter from you but an offer letter from them would be expected.

 

Benefits are health care, insurance for you and your family (wife, kids) if you have them, paid vacation, sick day allowance, 401k matching, worker training, fitness facilities..... These things don't have a price tag but are common items that you would look for when evaluating companies as they do have a value.

 

Salary is one thing but there a lots of intangibles that can make one company better to work for than another, even if the wage was lower.

 

Yes, bump up your wage demands as you can come down. But be sure to have a floor and try to find out some of these averages to determine your worth. Make sure they know you have some flexibility or give them a reall number that it would take and you won't come down.

[20thGix]

One thing often forgotten and easy to achieve, is keep your current accrued vacation or time-in-grade for vacation when moving over. Most companies will give that without a problem.

 

Moving expenses if you're going to move, or some sort of fuel/vehicle compensation if it's farther to drive.

Actual mileage compensation is something that is harder to get.

 

If it's a job that has state or federal contracts, go as high as a 40% increase in wages. Especially if military contracts.

 

If it's a red hot job, ask for a company car.

 

Asking a potential employee what wages is out right rude. I've had it happen and I didn't like it. Based on what? To do exactly what? What's the job description and working conditions? Wasn't enough details given yet, for me to pin a wage down. To try to negotiate without something offered in writing first to base it on, is a shoddy personnel/human resources department. And I've not experienced negotiations with any one other than a personnel or human resources. That's their job.

 

I've gone as high as a 40% increase, and a 20% cut when changing jobs. Sometimes available overtime will give it back.

As far as vacation, starting its  2 days less than I have now. And travel isn't much different, maybe 15 minutes farther.

Im dealing with the president of the company and I did find it odd that im having to make the intial offer as far as salary goes.

Edited January 15, 2014 by 20thGix

[20thGix]

No need for a formal letter from you but an offer letter from them would be expected.

 

Benefits are health care, insurance for you and your family (wife, kids) if you have them, paid vacation, sick day allowance, 401k matching, worker training, fitness facilities..... These things don't have a price tag but are common items that you would look for when evaluating companies as they do have a value.

 

What they offer for insurance is basically giving you X amount of dollars per month to buy your own.  Which I do now anyway and the amount they offer for a family would cover my medical premiums 100%. Which is a plus.  

 

Salary is one thing but there a lots of intangibles that can make one company better to work for than another, even if the wage was lower.

 

Here is the thing im having the hardest time putting a price on. The intangibles that don't really have a dollar amount but the perks/freedom/weight one has from being a somewhat small company for just over 12 years.

 

Yes, bump up your wage demands as you can come down. But be sure to have a floor and try to find out some of these averages to determine your worth. Make sure they know you have some flexibility or give them a reall number that it would take and you won't come down.

.

 

 

 

 

[mello dude]

Do some online research as to what a parallel job would pay at a different company. Then come back and say something like --- " Based on my research, a job like this is in the range of xxxxx."  Give a high/low range that is still a bump.  - Look up the company on Glassdoor.com to see if they are there. Its not unusual for HR to ask for a number in hopes you come in lower than they expect.  If it finally comes down to it, they will extend an offer for you. Dont accept immediately, tell them you want to talk it over with the wife.  --- Something else to consider, do you really want to leave where your at? If not, after you get the offer, tell your boss about it and ask him if he could match the bucks. Staying at a good company is worth something in itself. 

 

Good luck

 

 

-------

Would you still be able to do CAD/CNC work on stuff? Probly could stand another batch of stuff. 

Edited January 15, 2014 by mello dude

[turnone]

Seriously consider not doing anything. If you are happy with your current employer, there is no guarantee you will be with your new one. If you do, I would start high on the pay to make it worth it and listen to the above comments. Vacation is so important.

I would be very cautious about job hoping unless you want that job more than your current one.

[Gump]

Hammer them on your vacation needs. Employers don't mind giving into that if they feel they are getting a good employee. For you to get more money It's also easier for employers to agree to a probationary period of certain pay with a promise to increase your pay after a period of time, takes your promise of performance off the managers plate and it's easier for them to agree since they have an out. If it's a wash, something else to think about is the potential employers location, within city limits or not in city limits. If they are not in city limits you'll benefit on taxes.

[Gump]

As far as vacation, starting its  2 days less than I have now. And travel isn't much different, maybe 15 minutes farther.

Im dealing with the president of the company and I did find it odd that im having to make the intial offer as far as salary goes.

It's not rude. The president is feeling you out asking for salary requirements. He knows what he wants to pay but doesn't want to give you more than you're going to ask for.

[C-bus]

He's not looking for insurance and benefits included. He can't do that math as he pays others to do that. Take your hourly and multiply by 2080 and that's your annual wage (OT not included). If you have OT on top of that and will be going to a salaried position, take that into consideration in your calculation. You are in a very special negotiating position since you don't really want/need a change. I hesitate to think in terms of percentages since I don't know what you do and how much you make. $10K per year is a good jump if you make <$50k. A few questions to ask yourself:

Are you one of many people who will be in the position? If so, your ability to negotiate may be limited by EEOC or Union. If you will be one of a very few, go high.

How big is the company? A billion dollar company won't feel $20k vs $10k.

Don't bluff. Decide that this is going to happen at a certain rate and won't if not met. We can sniff out a bluff.

Was the request for an offer a "we gotta have you, how much do you want?" Or was it a "we have give good candidates, who can we afford?". Also a game changer. From your description, it sounds like they want you. Good luck!

As for vacation, bigger companies who don't want a union will not be flexible with vacation. I have the same vacation as my CEO and as my custodial staff. Keeps the playing field even.

Edited January 15, 2014 by C-bus

[20thGix]

He's not looking for insurance and benefits included. He can't do that math as he pays others to do that. Take your hourly and multiply by 2080 and that's your annual wage (OT not included). If you have OT on top of that and will be going to a salaried position, take that into consideration in your calculation. You are in a very special negotiating position since you don't really want/need a change. I hesitate to think in terms of percentages since I don't know what you do and how much you make. $10K per year is a good jump if you make <$50k. A few questions to ask yourself:

Are you one of many people who will be in the position? If so, your ability to negotiate may be limited by EEOC or Union. If you will be one of a very few, go high.

I am under the inpression that i would be the sole person in this position of a Design Checker. 

How big is the company? A billion dollar company won't feel $20k vs $10k.

Small company. 20 employees or so and to guess they do less than 15mill a year

Don't bluff. Decide that this is going to happen at a certain rate and won't if not met. We can sniff out a bluff.

Yeah, whatever salary i decide on is basically it. Industry norm or not. Again they have approached me.

Was the request for an offer a "we gotta have you, how much do you want?" Or was it a "we have give good candidates, who can we afford?". Also a game changer. From your description, it sounds like they want you. Good luck!

Seems to be a mix of both. Sorta like we gotta have you but dont know if we can afford it.

As for vacation, bigger companies who don't want a union will not be flexible with vacation. I have the same vacation as my CEO and as my custodial staff. Keeps the playing field even.

[madcat6183]

I wouldn't lose Vaca to take a new job, would make them match.  As for pay, if he is asking for your yearly, probably going to be a straight salary offer, be very careful with how they word the offer, I just had this happen with me.  It was an EXEMPT position meaning NO OT, and a pay cut.  I had planned to make up difference via OT pay but when they said EXEMPT I knew I would only be paid my annual salary and that was it.  Everything else was the same and they even had an onsite gym, to save me 20 bucks a month.  But in the end, I wasn't disatisfied enough with my current job to move.

 

Oh and then 2 weeks later I got a promotion, not a raise, but a promotion.  Hope to find out about a bonus in next few days(crossing fingers).

 

But yeah, I'm with Recon, mark it up a ton, never step back either.  I did that once, was promised the world, still recovering from the paycut and misery that was that job.  Literally made me a terrible person and broke my savings.

[Helmutt]

I say aim high Aaron, you aren't out anything if they deny your offer or fail to counter up to your standards. Small companies can be somewhat double-edged in the respect that you'll be more valuable in your position, yet the company can be less stable due to it's smaller scale.

My wife understands this as she's recently transitioned to a smaller corp. Less on her plate, more money, shorter work weeks, she is much more valuable and gets more of mgmt's attention to her needs, yet the company isn't very old/established. But, for the stress reduction and her peace of mind, a well deserved change.

There are several things to consider like all the posts above have mentioned, really is up to you and your wants/needs though. Good luck man!

[Gump]

if you're paid every other week, there will be 27 pays this year, not 26. If you're converting your hourly to salary. So it's not the wage times 2080 its 2240

[C-bus]

if you're paid every other week, there will be 27 pays this year, not 26. If you're converting your hourly to salary. So it's not the wage times 2080 its 2240

40 hours / week x 52 weeks regardless of payday = 2080

[magley64]

40 hours / week x 52 weeks regardless of payday = 2080

 

 

correct... you get paid for 80 hours of work every 2 weeks, regardless of when in the year you start...

 

there aren't magically 2 more weeks this year because 2 pay days happen within a few days of the beginning and end of the year.

 

now during a leap year, you do get an extra day..most companies I've worked for turn it into an extra floating holiday anyway...

Edited January 15, 2014 by magley64

[Gump]

Ya but technically this year can have 27 pays, so why not calculate up.....

[Anden]

You've a sweet ass job now. Ask for what ever you want. Make them make you want to quit. I'm betting you get an offer from current job to stay. Your probably a lot more valuable to them than you think. Not having to retrain someone is worth at least 4k extra a year. Probably more for everything you can do in there.

It has gone through the shop with a quickness that you are quitting. I can only imagine the fun you are having with them today.

[20thGix]

You've a sweet ass job now. Ask for what ever you want. Make them make you want to quit. I'm betting you get an offer from current job to stay. Your probably a lot more valuable to them than you think. Not having to retrain someone is worth at least 4k extra a year. Probably more for everything you can do in there.

It has gone through the shop with a quickness that you are quitting. I can only imagine the fun you are having with them today.

Yeah, i went ahead and spoke with them this morning before it made it that far.

[20thGix]

I say aim high Aaron, you aren't out anything if they deny your offer or fail to counter up to your standards. Small companies can be somewhat double-edged in the respect that you'll be more valuable in your position, yet the company can be less stable due to it's smaller scale.

My wife understands this as she's recently transitioned to a smaller corp. Less on her plate, more money, shorter work weeks, she is much more valuable and gets more of mgmt's attention to her needs, yet the company isn't very old/established. But, for the stress reduction and her peace of mind, a well deserved change.

There are several things to consider like all the posts above have mentioned, really is up to you and your wants/needs though. Good luck man!

This is what im thinking. I got nothing to lose.

[ReconRat]

Design Checker - well now, those are hard to find, good ones anyway. I can understand why they would pay extra for a good one.

[20thGix]

Well, my offers in and now just waiting to hear back from them. Thanks again peeps for all the extra insight.

Edited January 16, 2014 by 20thGix

[magley64]

GLWS, LBTS!