turnone Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Prayer doesn't work any better than no prayers. Any study that says it does will be discredited by opposing conclusions from other studies. Only possible way I see it working in any form is if the person is concious and knows they are being prayed for. Then it's not the prayer directly but the love and care of others that could affect their body's ability to heal. Or even cause the medical workers to try harder. Edited October 15, 2014 by turnone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I'll add my thoughts, take them however you want.I grew up Catholic. Went to a Catholic school 1-8th grade. Church every week.My dad was agnostic and I often followed his lead for the simple fact he was my dad although I believed slightly more than he did.Then I went to public high school. I maintained a slight belief in God but didn't go to church it speak of it.Then I went in the army. I believed a little more because I wanted and needed support.Then I went to Iraq. I saw my brothers die. I saw body parts laying on the ground from VBIEDs/IED's. I saw grown men cry their eyes out because another trooper died, or they missed their child being born, or they weren't their to say goodbye when their loved one died back home. I've seen children starving abd eating scraps. I've seen 8 year olds with AK-47S. What a hell hole.I knew a girl over there, and I've only told my parents and wife this story and it often chokes me up when I do. She was with 10th Mtn Division. SPC Bobbi Gonzalez, from Christine, TX. She was a light wheeled mechanic working as the armorer. We were working PX guard and 10th Mtn was our relief to take over guard duty. She was pretty and fun to talk to. After they took over for us, I'd go back just to see and talk to her. After a while I stopped seeing her. Figured she got pulled off guard duty or something. One day while reading The Stars and Stripes, I came across an obituary. It was hers and what I said about about her was right there in it. Along with a line that She was home on leave when she died trying to save her brother from drowning. They both died. I cried. I hated a god that would allow one of his children to survive Iraq just to die at home with her brother. I was pissed and I never prayed or went to church again. Then I got out and came home. Ended up getting talked into going to a non denominational church next to where I used to work. The pastor wasn't always a believer and until he was saved at 26, his life was pretty rough. I could relate to him and he spoke to me as an equal, not as he was better than me.I semi believed. I had been married for 6 years with a 5 year old daughter. I was young and dumb abd it was a crummy marriage at that. I became a police officer and ended up working with a girl I went to high school with. She and I became good friends and she made me see it wasn't my fault I was cheated on. I divorced my wife and she and I became best friends. I've been married to her about a year and a half. She adopted my daughter and is a wonderful mother. She helped me find God in a terrible spot in my life and after i did, my life turned around. A weight had been lifted off my shoulders.She's been off work for a year due to injury. I work full time for not great pay and go to school full time. We are getting by pretty good and I truly believe that's because we tithe. We give 10% of our income to our church. When we didn't, we struggled. When we started to tithe, we had more money. Our income didn't change, actually it went down but when we started to tithe, we had more.I went to the other side of the world. I made it out alive, came home, had a beautiful daughter and ended up finding my soulmate that never left the area. We should have missed one another but somehow we didn't. I thank God everyday for what I have. Life on earth isn't easy, it's not fair. He never said it would be. I don't have all the answers and I'm ok with that. He does. What I do know is what I've been through and how different life has been for me with and without God. Take whatever you'd like from this story. Edited October 16, 2014 by chevysoldier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Thanks for sharing.I work full time for not great pay and go to school full time. We are getting by pretty good and I truly believe that's because we tithe. We give 10% of our income to our church. When we didn't, we struggled. When we started to tithe, we had more money. Our income didn't change, actually it went down but when we started to tithe, we had more.Do you mind explaining what you mean by this? Are you saying your living expenses changed? Less unplanned expenses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Thanks for sharing.Do you mind explaining what you mean by this? Are you saying your living expenses changed? Less unplanned expenses?I mean we didn't typically tithe when we both worked. Now she doesn't and we tithe every week. Our bills are the same and we really haven't changed how we spend money. But we are able to take care of what we need. Heck, we've been getting refunds from medical bills and such my wife paid 6 years ago, stuff unexpected and out of the blue. We tithe because it's not our money, it's his. We give 10% to him, it's not really giving, it's already his. I don't understand how it is possible other than its out of my control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxus Christ! Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Smh... God needs paper printed by a bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnone Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Adversity doesn't make fairy takes real. Sorry but still isn't logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Smh... God needs paper printed by a bank.No one says he does. That's what i used to think. It's learning that what you have isn't yours, it's his. And if you were managing money for someone else, you would typically care for it better than if it was yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Adversity doesn't make fairy takes real. Sorry but still isn't logical.I Admitted it shouldn't make sense but that's how it's happened for us. I make less money now but actually am doing better. What we spend money on hasn't changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxus Christ! Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I Admitted it shouldn't make sense but that's how it's happened for us. I make less money now but actually am doing better. What we spend money on hasn't changed.Something has, you just choose to believe that your good fortune is attributed to tithing.. If you lose everything tomorrow will you attribute that to tithing too, or does it only work one way? And what I earn is 100% mine. I didn't see sonny Jesus down here on the shop floor turning wrenches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Something has, you just choose to believe that your good fortune is attributed to tithing.. If you lose everything tomorrow will you attribute that to tithing too, or does it only work one way? And what I earn is 100% mine. I didn't see sonny Jesus down here on the shop floor turning wrenches.I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just telling you what's been my experience. Take it or leave it, makes no difference to me. I guess I'm just not that selfish anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I mean we didn't typically tithe when we both worked. Now she doesn't and we tithe every week. Our bills are the same and we really haven't changed how we spend money. But we are able to take care of what we need. Heck, we've been getting refunds from medical bills and such my wife paid 6 years ago, stuff unexpected and out of the blue. We tithe because it's not our money, it's his. We give 10% to him, it's not really giving, it's already his. I don't understand how it is possible other than its out of my control. My take is this: As I've stated before, I don't believe in such things. And that works well for me. You do, and that is clearly working well for you. I am completely cool with all of that. I see no problem whatsoever. Edited October 16, 2014 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattm Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) John Clayton is far from wealthy. He started his studies in order to disprove God, and after studying extensively came to the opposite conclusion of what he wanted.So let me get this straight. A scientist went out to disprove God, but uses the Bible as a source of evidence? This sounds like a nice story but is false on its face. The scientific method is not modified no matter what hypothesis you are trying to test. This fucktard Clayton apparently hasn't learned how to test a hypothesis even though he evidentially achieved a degree. Not sure how that happens but I must assume that this "trying to disprove Jesus/God/Holy Spirit/flying spaghetti monster" thing was his way to cash in on the multitudes in this country who do not understand science at even a 2nd grade level. Edited October 16, 2014 by mattm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZ Kari Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Just gonna put this here for the lolz...Street Fighter Pastor Edición Iglesia - Pastores …: I haven't laughed this much in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxus Christ! Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 So let me get this straight. A scientist went out to disprove God, but uses the Bible as a source of evidence? This sounds like a nice story but is false on its face. The scientific method is not modified no matter what hypothesis you are trying to test. This fucktard Clayton apparently hasn't learned how to test a hypothesis even though he evidentially achieved a degree. Not sure how that happens but I must assume that this "trying to disprove Jesus/God/Holy Spirit/flying spaghetti monster" thing was his way to cash in on the multitudes in this country who do not understand science at even a 2nd grade level.The quest in itself defies science as you cannot prove something doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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