Italian Supreme Court Bans the 'Microsoft Tax'

[Strictly Street]

In a post at the Free Software Foundation, lawyer Marco Ciurcina reports that the Italian Supreme Court has ruled the practice of forcing users to pay for a Windows license when they buy a new PC is illegal. Manufacturers in Italy are now legally obligated to refund that money if a buyer wants to put GNU/Linux or another free OS on the computer.

 

A foot in the door for linux users! Save some money on that new pc and load your own OS.

 

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/10/25/1443210/italian-supreme-court-bans-the-microsoft-tax

[zx3vfr]

No, if you buy a windows machine you buy it fully accepting that it was with windows software.

[smccrory]

Zx I don't think you fully understand. Microsoft establishes contracts with PC resellers where deep discounts are given to them for Microsoft products in exchange for exclusivity. In that way, Microsoft sells more licenses by removing the option of buying a PC without them, and the resellers reduce their system costs and deliver a pre-configured product with crapware they themselves benefit in other ways from.

But not every customer wants Windows (and the rest of the crapware) on their PC - many want a flavor of Linux. But because of the reseller's exclusivity contract with Microsoft, those customers have to tithe Microsoft anyway, because an OS-less PC isn't available from most of the big resellers.

This is called collusion, among other names.

[zx3vfr]

So don't buy a machine preloaded with windows.

[Gixxus Christ!]

So don't buy a machine preloaded with windows.

So buy a mac or don't buy a computer at all?

Unless you build it yourself, a non mac is gonna come from the store with windows.

[smccrory]

So buy a mac or don't buy a computer at all?

Unless you build it yourself, a non mac is gonna come from the store with windows.

 

To be completely fair, you CAN get a PC without paying the Windows tax from smaller manufacturers who haven't engaged in exclusivity contracts with Microsoft.  Also, Dell has started to offer two of their models without Windows.  However, it is unclear whether consumers of those PCs are actually paying for Windows beneath the base price of the systems.  So, augmenting what CSC said, you can either 1) buy a PC with Windows, 2) a Mac with OSX, 3) a small-name PC without Windows, or 4) (when you can get it), a big-name-brand PC without Windows and hope you're not paying an extra $50-100 for a copy of W8 you'll never get the key for, simply because the manufacturer is contractually obliged to tithe Microsoft for it.

 

ZX, this is what the EU law suits have been about for the last two decades.  It's not a religious war, it's about antitrust and consumer choice. 

[Scruit]

What is  "windows machine" anyway?  It's an intel-based PC, which covers Linux, Mac and Windows.

 

I run Fedora on my laptop.  I didn't get the "no OS option" from Dell when I first bought this machine, so I was required to pay for an OS I knew I wouldn't use.  I picked the no-cost entry-level windows home basic or whatever they call it.  But if you think that's free and not baked into the cost of the PC then you are exactly the kind of person Microsoft was thinking of when they set up this anti-competitive system.

[zx3vfr]

So buy a mac or don't buy a computer at all?

Unless you build it yourself, a non mac is gonna come from the store with windows.

There are lots of people who offer computer building services that are very reasonable. Just because you want a hamburger doesn't mean you must buy from McDonalds or Wendy's. Uhg

[smccrory]

Just because I want Linux doesn't mean I want a PC built by Crazy Kenny. Ugh indeed.

[zx3vfr]

Awaiting the go find a tutorial on jewtube post

[Gixxus Christ!]

There are lots of people who offer computer building services that are very reasonable. Just because you want a hamburger doesn't mean you must buy from McDonalds or Wendy's. Uhg

That's great.

Most people just go to walmart/best buy etc and pick a machine. Most people don't know where to look for one of these builders you speak of. Most people don't even know there's a choice besides windows or mac.

Just because bobs wonderland of custom hamburgers exists does not mean it is well known to the general public.

[bloodninja420]

The reason you can't find Linux on PCs sold at Best Buy and similar stores is because their customers don't know what the fuck Linux is. They want Windows.

And people who know and understand Linux are not likely to be held back from acquiring it because the OS isn't loaded on the PCs sold at big box retailers.

But the court ruling was never about principles like those. It was an excuse for a lefty euro judge stick it to the man.

Zx I don't think you fully understand. Microsoft establishes contracts with PC resellers where deep discounts are given to them for Microsoft products in exchange for exclusivity. In that way, Microsoft sells more licenses by removing the option of buying a PC without them, and the resellers reduce their system costs and deliver a pre-configured product with crapware they themselves benefit in other ways from.

But not every customer wants Windows (and the rest of the crapware) on their PC - many want a flavor of Linux. But because of the reseller's exclusivity contract with Microsoft, those customers have to tithe Microsoft anyway, because an OS-less PC isn't available from most of the big resellers.

This is called collusion, among other names.

If this is collusion than so is literally every other business - to - business supplier relationship involving an exclusivity agreement.

[vf1000ride]

Most people just go to walmart/best buy etc and pick a machine. Most people don't know where to look for one of these builders you speak of. Most people don't even know there's a choice besides windows or mac.

The people that go to Walmart/Best Buy and pick out the cheapest desktop PC on the shelf probably would have no clue how to use a Linux based machine anyway so in all honesty I don't feel sorry for them. They are limited to the choice of Mac or Windows because this is what the market and advertising dollars have led them to believe are their only choices. They have not opened their eyes to the true possibilities of modern computing and they have not cared enough to research the situation.

I have never purchased a new retail computer that was assembled and running an OS. Every computer I have owned since 1997 has been purchased as components and assembled by me. Assuming no hardware failures I average 5-6 years from a pc before I build another one as that is usually how long it takes for game development to catch up to the hardware limits of the computer. I would never conceive of paying for a low spec PC assembled in a foreign country with the lowest possible costing components built to a corporate profit limit. This gives me much more freedom of choice for both system specs and also operating system. I have 2 windows only pc's. A winxp machine that dual boots with Ubuntu and I have an old netbook running Lubuntu. Whats sad is that just due to pure ease of use my main computer is windows only. It is rare I mess with the Linux machines these days.

The people I feel more sorry for are the tech savvy people who want a laptop with the non-standard OS. That's when you get the shaft because you can't just buy the parts and build your own. You are limited to what the major players in the laptop manufacturing market tell you to buy.

[zx3vfr]

That's great.

Most people just go to walmart/best buy etc and pick a machine. Most people don't know where to look for one of these builders you speak of. Most people don't even know there's a choice besides windows or mac.

Just because bobs wonderland of custom hamburgers exists does not mean it is well known to the general public.

And so then what the problem? People using alternative OS are going to Walmart in the first place.

[smccrory]

The reason you can't find Linux on PCs sold at Best Buy and similar stores is because their customers don't know what the fuck Linux is. They want Windows.

And people who know and understand Linux are not likely to be held back from acquiring it because the OS isn't loaded on the PCs sold at big box retailers.

But the court ruling was never about principles like those. It was an excuse for a lefty euro judge stick it to the man.

Yea, I'm not one for the Walmart/Best Buy example either but don't get side-tracked by it. I'll say it again, there are only a small handful of big name PC manufacturers willing to sell systems without Windows, and even then it's unclear whether they are pricing a Windows license fee inside the deal. The issue is about choice and about not tithing a company for goods and services not received. It's about antitrust.

If this is collusion than so is literally every other business - to - business supplier relationship involving an exclusivity agreement.

Again don't get hung up on a red herring. While you're semantically correct, the legal definition of collusion in the context of anti-trust requires a higher standard, that the colluding companies represent a monopolistic hold on market choice, and that's exactly what the EU rulings have found in multiple cases with MS - that they abused their market position, stifled innovation and fair market competition. I.e., while semantically it would be collusion for you and me to charge OR members $5/candy bar, it would only be monopolistic if we commanded the vast majority of all candy bar sales and required vendors to bundle that $5 candy fee in every movie theater ticket price, whether our customers wanted the chocolate or not.

Funny how some folks think government taxes for services not directly rendered are bad but corporate ones are just fine. How very selective and Ayn Randian.

[C-bus]

I don't have a dog in this fight. As far as I know, Linux is Snoopy's friend with the blanky.

To the last point though.... I can choose not to purchase a good or service, unlike a tax. Apples and oranges here.

[smccrory]

"Use" taxes are similar. You can choose not to buy gasoline and avoid the fuel tax. Or choose not to fly and avoid landing fees or choose not to rent NYC hotels and avoid lodging taxes or choose not to own property and avoid RETs.

[mattm]

Awaiting the go find a tutorial on jewtube post

Just quoting this for the awesomeness of "jewtube."

Awesome stuff here exposing a portion of the demographic.

[zx3vfr]

Just quoting this for the awesomeness of "jewtube."

Awesome stuff here exposing a portion of the demographic.

No, it is real and it is an everyday life/tutorial video sharing site

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JewTube