Chrisoh Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 I like how everyone is focusing on unimportant stuff.Just trying to help...little things help. If you make 10 up shifts in a lap and say Guy A takes .2 of a second to make that shift and Guy B take say .5 longer on the same bike same corners, etc..Guy A at .3 x 10 is 3 seconds a lap faster plus the extra speed he will build on the straights with faster shifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-flores Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Yeah, it was slow slow, no damage done. Bike is fully rideable.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8737001559137085681&hl=enHere is one of them....haven't uploaded the others.yeah i saw you go down you were about 30 yards ahead of me....glad to hear everything was all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 I like how everyone is focusing on unimportant stuff.Speaking of unimportant stuff, wheres the crash vid? :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexchannell Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 What do you want? You want everyone to praise you? I don't get it. You posted a video and we're glad you did. Thanks for sharing.Nope, but when I state i know how to clutchless upshift and depending upon the conditions, I do it, then people keep harping on it...pointless. I'm all for positive critiques, however epeating the same thing over and over is pointless. (especially when people don't read a few lines prior) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexchannell Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 yeah i saw you go down you were about 30 yards ahead of me....glad to hear everything was all good.Ohh yeah? cool, I've got it on video at my house I'll upload it later....not much to see though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexchannell Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Just trying to help...little things help. If you make 10 up shifts in a lap and say Guy A takes .2 of a second to make that shift and Guy B take say .5 longer on the same bike same corners, etc..Guy A at .3 x 10 is 3 seconds a lap faster plus the extra speed he will build on the straights with faster shifts.Well thanks, however if you watch those videos, there is way too much traffic to need to worry about that, and I'll close up on the brakes pretty good anyways. (not going 100% with that much difference in speed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexchannell Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Gotta say STT is way more fun than NESBA. The no passing control riders and no passing on the inside rules NESBA has just makes it annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Well thanks, however if you watch those videos, there is way too much traffic to need to worry about that, and I'll close up on the brakes pretty good anyways. (not going 100% with that much difference in speed).I was just going by you saying that going from full open to full close to make a clutchless upshift was hard for you being 6'5" (just what I got from that quote) and why I chimed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Well thanks, however if you watch those videos, there is way too much traffic to need to worry about that, and I'll close up on the brakes pretty good anyways. (not going 100% with that much difference in speed).i think what Chris is trying to say is that little things need to be done regularly so it becomes habit. So when you DO get faster, those practices will be beneficial when you need them.You can go really fast in the "I" group. Depends on ability level, of course. I'd suggest working on line choice and the shifting. Believe it or not, what Chris is saying is something a lot of guys don't think about.However, the video shows that even when you were alone with a clean track, the lines were not conducive of a fast lap. Not a bash, but rather a bit of constructive criticism to hopefully help you along. The traffic is always heavy in "I" group, but definitely passable. "A" isn't much better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 I was just going by you saying that going from full open to full close to make a clutchless upshift was hard for you being 6'5" (just what I got from that quote) and why I chimed up.I think he's not 100% closed throttle, but it sure sounds like it. The timing is off a tad, but that's just a matter of him needing a tad more seat time. But what you stated - no need for a fully closed throttle to shift... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 Your clutchless wasn't as bad as it sounded from your quote, and that is the first I have seen someone just slipping the clutch at WOT to make a shift. Seem to work though that may be hard on the clutch, though not sure that would be a lizard question.I see some places you can really pick up time with line changes and some changes that once you get to A you will make yourself once you start seeing them from faster riders. You have what some of us call the trackday lines through places like Chicane, T6 off the back straight, the 13 (left out of thunder valley), and into the carosel. I made the changes once I got in with some fast guys and saw how they were passing me, you'll get there.You looked really smooth on your steering inputs, no jerky corners, or any line corrections. Your pass over wheelie hill on the Duc and blue bike was great. I end up doing the opposite running inside them into that corner. One line correction I need to make is apex over the hill sooner into thunder valley. I tend to hold it longer for some unknown reason hopefully Drew or Lizard will show through there a couple times so I can pick a better reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 I think he's not 100% closed throttle, but it sure sounds like it. The timing is off a tad, but that's just a matter of him needing a tad more seat time. But what you stated - no need for a fully closed throttle to shift...Hey Lizard the few times I have had to pull my QS I had a lot of trouble getting positive shifts with clutchless. Now I just unhooked from the PC and left the unit on the Shift Rod. I was never that good at when running redline, but I sometimes would try 2-3 times then just say screw it and use the clutch. I thought maybe with the sensor my timing was off and needed more force to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexchannell Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 Your clutchless wasn't as bad as it sounded from your quote, and that is the first I have seen someone just slipping the clutch at WOT to make a shift. Seem to work though that may be hard on the clutch, though not sure that would be a lizard question.I see some places you can really pick up time with line changes and some changes that once you get to A you will make yourself once you start seeing them from faster riders. You have what some of us call the trackday lines through places like Chicane, T6 off the back straight, the 13 (left out of thunder valley), and into the carosel. I made the changes once I got in with some fast guys and saw how they were passing me, you'll get there.You looked really smooth on your steering inputs, no jerky corners, or any line corrections. Your pass over wheelie hill on the Duc and blue bike was great. I end up doing the opposite running inside them into that corner. One line correction I need to make is apex over the hill sooner into thunder valley. I tend to hold it longer for some unknown reason hopefully Drew or Lizard will show through there a couple times so I can pick a better reference.Yeah I know my lines defiantly need some work, thing is I'm not sure I'm fast enough to go in advanced group without getting in the way too much. However I'm running out of people to watch in intermediate. A lot of the time, I try to stay the same distance from the curbing so I don't close up on people trying to pass, probably a bad habit, just trying to be predictable...don't want to wreck into someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexchannell Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 Your clutchless wasn't as bad as it sounded from your quote, and that is the first I have seen someone just slipping the clutch at WOT to make a shift. Seem to work though that may be hard on the clutch, though not sure that would be a lizard question.I see some places you can really pick up time with line changes and some changes that once you get to A you will make yourself once you start seeing them from faster riders. You have what some of us call the trackday lines through places like Chicane, T6 off the back straight, the 13 (left out of thunder valley), and into the carosel. I made the changes once I got in with some fast guys and saw how they were passing me, you'll get there.You looked really smooth on your steering inputs, no jerky corners, or any line corrections. Your pass over wheelie hill on the Duc and blue bike was great. I end up doing the opposite running inside them into that corner. One line correction I need to make is apex over the hill sooner into thunder valley. I tend to hold it longer for some unknown reason hopefully Drew or Lizard will show through there a couple times so I can pick a better reference.Could you go into more detail on my lines in those places? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-flores Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 I've got it on video at my house I'll upload it later....not much to see though.thats always a good thing. yeah i was the guy with the 06 600rr with the red/balck bodywork with the black tank and right mid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 Yeah I know my lines defiantly need some work, thing is I'm not sure I'm fast enough to go in advanced group without getting in the way too much. However I'm running out of people to watch in intermediate. A lot of the time, I try to stay the same distance from the curbing so I don't close up on people trying to pass, probably a bad habit, just trying to be predictable...don't want to wreck into someone else.1:49s isn't an Advanced pace at Mid-Ohio. That said, you can easily shave off time by adjusting your line choices. If you can get to 1:45 and BE SMOOTH AND CONSISTANT, you're ready for Advanced.4 seconds doesn't sound like much, but by the time 3-4 events are held at Mid-Ohio, the minimal time will be around 1:45-1:47.I'd say you get 2 seconds off CONSISTANTLY (not just a flyer lap), you can ask to move up.You can actually move up if you want, but realize if we feel it is better to have you in Intermediate, we'll move you down. I moved three guys down over the weekend in Advanced to Intermediate and two of them were pissed, but that's the way it is.It's all line choice and little things that drop times. Let's face it, not everyone can go out and correct things and get to 1:30s out there. Your ability is going to come into play. However, in my mind, we can get everyone down to 1:40-:42 with teaching. Smooth and consistent lines and proper braking and acceleration will net dropped times. Once passed 1:40, it becomes more ability and then the abilities to know the machine, rider input, etc. come into play and the separation gets even more and more as you drop times. in other words, a kid cuts one fast lap for him and it is a 1:36... However, he's riding like his hair is on fire and doing some bad things out there in terms of stuffing and poor choices. That's not ability... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexchannell Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 another video....I got scolded for the pass at the end. Couldn't see a place to fit in so I went in faster than I wanted and ran a little wide. Worked out okay but a little sketchy.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1832808331835428763&hl=en Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 Could you go into more detail on my lines in those places?Chicane, you enter ok clipping the right side curb, but you stay leaned over and run out wide to setup the left portion into the Key hole. Most of the faster guys (drew included) I have followed use this similar line. From track left lean hard right toward that right side curb. Before you hit it you are standing the bike up to clip the left side curb at the entrance. Then your speed will let you run out 2-5 feet off the curb slowing down all the time. Then you pull it in to the curb on the left side before the keyhole and clip that. Then you flip right for the keyhole.Off the back straight right hander, you are holding that right tight to take a wide line into the Left over the hill. The fast guys run that right with alot more speed and let the bike run out closer to the track left edge (allows for a lot more speed through there which allows you stay WOT on the back straight and brake later for that turn) then you run striaght into the Left over the hill slowing down all the way up and then crack the gas just before you crest.Coming out of Thunder Valley you hold the right kink tight and turn in as late as possible. Clip the inside curb and with your speed up will run out to that yellow curb on Track right. then you will run straight to the carosel and enter it on the brakes and slow down till mid way around the carosel. Then you will crack the gas open again and pull it in to apex the carosel and for the run onto the front straight.I saw that you were also nowhere near the Apex in 1. You knee should be on that yellow apron and apex it a little bit before it ends (lizard help me on that one). Turn in is just as you go under the bridge, go hard to that apron then power out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 another video....I got scolded for the pass at the end. Couldn't see a place to fit in so I went in faster than I wanted and ran a little wide. Worked out okay but a little sketchy.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1832808331835428763&hl=enOk, some tips...1) Turn 1 - you go too wide on the entrance. You need to hug that yellow curbing and drive hard out. Currently, you are losing a pile of time there...2) Keyhole looks pretty damn good. Practice increasing corner speed there followed by exit speed and a good drive and you'll really have it licked.3) Back straight, you are rolling off WAY too early. You roll off and then brake. Pop up and roll off and brake at one time. Do not try and do them all separately... It's tough going in deep off the back straight and it takes time, but you are rolling off way too early...4) Turn 7 off the back straight (right turn after straight). Between 7 and 8 (the right hander), you are too wide getting set-up for the left hander heading down the hill. Connect the right to the left in a more straight line and hug the curbing there. Drive hard out and go wide on exit and pull it back for the bottom of the hill. You have the turn at the bottom ok...5) Between that right hander you do well and the left hander under the bridge - you're again setting up too wide to the right. Keep that tighter and up shift when straight up and down right before you throw it left... That way, you lug the motor a bit over the crest and won't wheelie as much...6) Turn 10 (right leading into Thunder Valley - crest that is blind) looks good there. You carry your line out wide and on the gas. Through Thunder, though, shift up a gear. You're up on the rev limiter into the right dog leg before that left hander leading to the carousel. Shift up a gear, hold the speed and brake for the left hander. Get off the brakes as soon as you can as that is a common low side area... Drive out wide of the left hander and stay tight along the right dog leg that leads to the carousel.7) Entrance to the carousel is too wide. Stay hugged up against that right handed dog leg and act as if you are blowing the turn into the carousel. Almost like you're suddenly heading to the pits. Pull it back in tight like the keyhole to get a good drive between the exit and the left onto the straight. Upshift between these turns to get a solid drive onto the front straight.I would have chewed you out for that pass into one. Too much and you definitely were not able to hold the line. It was a desperate or ill timed pass that could have waited. Part of being an advanced rider is knowing when to pass and how to hold lines that aren't necessarily the best choices, but don't hurt you as much. Just keeping a level head will keep you out of a lot of trouble. That pass in advanced would have had you possibly on your head or getting chewed out by the rider you stuffed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 I like Lizards line descriptions better, but was about the same as what I was saying.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexchannell Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 thanks for the breakdown guys, helps a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexchannell Posted April 29, 2008 Report Share Posted April 29, 2008 Ok, some tips...I would have chewed you out for that pass into one. Too much and you definitely were not able to hold the line. It was a desperate or ill timed pass that could have waited. Part of being an advanced rider is knowing when to pass and how to hold lines that aren't necessarily the best choices, but don't hurt you as much. Just keeping a level head will keep you out of a lot of trouble. That pass in advanced would have had you possibly on your head or getting chewed out by the rider you stuffed...Ohh I agree it wasn't a great move, when i got up there, they were so closed together I thought it would be safer to blow the corner instead of trying to squeeze in....maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Ohh I agree it wasn't a great move, when i got up there, they were so closed together I thought it would be safer to blow the corner instead of trying to squeeze in....maybe not.It's WAY better to wait. You came in too hot for you to be able to correct. What you do out there needs to equal your ability level and you blew the turn.There could have been a few issues as a result:1) Blow the turn and scare the crap out of the guy you passed. He grabs the front brake ever so slightly and low sides and crashes as a result2) You blow by and he target fixes on you and follows you out wide and he cannot recover and crashes.3) You blow the turn, you come back down and the guy you passed is where you want to be and you both touch and you both go down.4) Next time, you blow the turn and you cannot correct and you crash.Whatever the scenario, all can be avoided. A good rider isn't one who can just plop down fast laps. It is one who can do multiple tasks out there and still click off decent times. Many of our instructors can slice through traffic w/o even coming close to touching anyone. They can go in hot, scrub off speed so fast to maintain control and fall in behind a rider and pass on exit. They can come in hot and seemingly look as if they are going to blow the turn and get it down and turned and exit like nothing happened. It's all in experience and seat time.Passing when it could have waited happens to us all no matter the skill level. It's what can occur after or what needs to be prepared for afterwards that entails how well versed a rider is...Just watch the passes like that. Next time, fall in behind the guy and pass on exit. It would have been easier and less work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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