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Wandering Soul

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pretty pumped about this! can't wait to get that damn M9 outta here.  Would definitely be nice to see a modular rifle setup as well.  It is nice being able to adjust the weapon for the specific mission needs rather easily.  And get rid of the 5.56

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18 hours ago, owndjoo said:

pretty pumped about this! can't wait to get that damn M9 outta here.  Would definitely be nice to see a modular rifle setup as well.  It is nice being able to adjust the weapon for the specific mission needs rather easily.  And get rid of the 5.56

P320 will be a remarkable improvement over the M9 POS.  And I agree with you on the modular rifle concept also....but I don't see them moving away from the 5.56 anytime in the next decade or two. First question is what would you want to replace it with????

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5 minutes ago, myhondas said:

P320 will be a remarkable improvement over the M9 POS.  And I agree with you on the modular rifle concept also....but I don't see them moving away from the 5.56 anytime in the next decade or two. First question is what would you want to replace it with????

6.5 or 7.62 would be good.  What others (NATO) think is immaterial; 5.56 isn't much more than a squirrel round on steroids.  Above all else when you shoot something you want it dead.  5.56 doesn't always get the job done.

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3 hours ago, Wandering Soul said:

6.5 or 7.62 would be good.  What others (NATO) think is immaterial; 5.56 isn't much more than a squirrel round on steroids.  Above all else when you shoot something you want it dead.  5.56 doesn't always get the job done.

All depends on shot placement. ;)

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3 hours ago, Wandering Soul said:

  Above all else when you shoot something you want it dead.  5.56 doesn't always get the job done.

This is really dependent on who your fighting.  If you are fighting a mainline army, wounded soldiers become a logistics problem with the opposite side tying up resources and manpower trying to save their lives.  5.56 is fantastic at this. 

If your fighting disorganized rebels, warlords and Muslim insurgents that have no respect for even their own lives, wounding a person doesn't help.  They will just leave them behind to slowly bleed out while taking pot-shots at anything that moves in the area.  Those guys are much better off doa with a 30cal hole in them.

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That viewpoint works for the brass a gazillion miles away.  You don't want that in the field.  Talk to first or second Iraqi veterans or find an old Viet Nam vet and ask what it's like to be 20-30 yards or closer to someone who's trying to kill you.  I bet I know they'll say.

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I'm certain that's true but when was the last time the military listened to what the individual soldier needed and reacted to it both quickly and with an actual result that would be helpful?  Most things military and in life in general are decided by people sitting in committee and not by the guy who actually has something to lose, the choices are made to best protect the nameplate on a cushy desk chair.

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Not a huge fan of the 320, but anything is better than the m9.

I doubt they'll move away from 5.56 anytime soon.   They are plenty lethal and weigh less than rounds like the 7.62.  A Marine or soldier can carry more of them.   In combat, sometimes more rounds are better than bigger ones. 

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22 hours ago, myhondas said:

P320 will be a remarkable improvement over the M9 POS.  And I agree with you on the modular rifle concept also....but I don't see them moving away from the 5.56 anytime in the next decade or two. First question is what would you want to replace it with????

the FN SCAR.  This is the epitome of a modular combat rifle system.  One system that can be configured for many different units/missions as needed.  The ability to run different calibers while keeping the rifle basics the same.  The flexibility of this system is phenomenal.  It would be easy to bring into our forces as you can run it in 5.56mm and 7.62mm as well as others.  This helps with using the current ammo with a phasing in of the change.

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12 hours ago, Tigerpaw said:

I like the M9.  Why all the hate?

As a USAF Instructor,  I can come up with a few.  The long-term reliability of these weapons isn't there.  We have M9's that break the lugs in the breach after a while, which is a huge PITA.  The double action/single action is trash for the first round accuracy, yes I understand the safety aspect of this.  The weight and grip size is another issue for smaller shooters combined with the heavy double-action initial pull.  The P320 is striker fired, lightweight polymer frame, extremely modular in use for all who may use it.( many currently carry a Sig M11 for concealed duty now) The ability to change grip size to fit shooters and ability to change calibers based on mission needs is nice as well.

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FN SCAR 16 is a viable option. WW I & WW II & Korea we were caring 30.06 and .45 and some .30 carbine. Viet Nam was 7.62 & 5.56 and now pretty much everything is 5.56 with a little 7.62 in there.....Each time they went to lighten the ammo load on the grunt in the field. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they considered the 5.7 in both pistol and rifle....but I don’t see them going back to the 7.62 as the main caliber.

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