little political vid

[kawi kid]

i lied this is not little by any means but its pretty imformative.

[Disclaimer]

Hooooooo....<extended sigh> I wish videos like that would come with a rebuttal video as well, so each side has equal opportunity to make valid points. There is so many things that I feel are wrong with the video, taken out of context, or extra emphasis put on trivial items (like someones name).

That type of propaganda can be made against any candidate, and since negative propaganda is much more effective than positive propaganda, this is what we're left with, constant because it's all to easy to focus on what someone did wrong versus what they've done right.

When will it all end?

Lets post an anti-Hillary video:

And

An anti-McCain video:

[fusion]

That's what passes as informative? It looks like nothing more than a Barack Obama smear video

[Disclaimer]

This site is the most informative... though I believe it to be anti-conservative. It has won several awards - including the "Best Weblog About Politics" @ the 2008 Weblog Awards.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

[vectorvictor]

I have to say that all of that was based on fact and quotes and when you say "God damn America" you dont need to know the context! Have you ever not put your hand over your heart when you say the pledge or say you dont want to wear the american flag pin because it doesent say that you are patriotic! Thats the point of the flag to show who you are loyal to and where you are from. No dont look at the mistakes he has made in his life or take quotes out of context like maybe "Mission Accomplished" ... that would be wrong! If you dont want a to occur then dont fight dirty and maybe the other side wont either.

[fusion]

1st - Obama didn't say "God damn America" that his attention whore ex-pastor said it. And frankly have you walked out side and seen your fellow Americans and what our politicians are doing...I think I've muttered the same words myself more than a few times. I grew up a military brat, am ex-military and my wife is ex military too, but you can go ahead try and question my patriotism if you want for saying the same thing on occasion.

2nd - It was the National Anthem that he didn't put his hand over his heart...not the pledge. It's old military custom to put your (hat)hand over your heart. Modern custom does not state you should. I don't, I stand respectfully and at games (accompanied by a few early beers) I'll often sing along.

Next - Seriously a flag pin?? Guess what, I think flag pins, those stupid ribbons and whatnot are seriously retarded. You don't show your patriotism and support through fashion statements.

As for "Mission Accomplished" you might want to get off of Bush's nuts, quit watching Fox News and dreaming about giving daily rim jobs to those hacks Hannity and Limbaugh. That statement isn't taken out of context and came out of his mouth along with the words stating that it was the end of major combat operations in Iraq. They guy is a moron. My friends that have been over 3-4 times and the fact that 96% of the casualties there have occurred after that speech would disagree.

By the way I'm not an Obama supported as I haven't made up my mind who exactly I would like to throw my support behind come November. Could I end up voting for him? Sure, not 100% decided yet though.

People who write the completely spun bullcrap like you did are what is wrong with America today.

[Disclaimer]

Per fusion's post -- it's all about perspective. If you think not wearing a lapel pin, or not putting your hand over your heart on the anthem (which, as Fusion correctly pointed out, is not necessary per MODERN customs), or think that someone should be judged by what SOMEONE else says (reverend d-bag)... if you think all that stuff is as egregious as killing 4,000 soldiers to go to war under falsehoods to battle "terror" then you have obviously lost perspective in life.

Guess what McCain wants to do??.... more of the same.

[vectorvictor]

I will concede all points to the Informed people on the forum. I give up. Give me liberty and social programs is the new battle cry. Bush lied people died. No war for oil. Take my guns away so I cant accidentally shoot myself or my family members or the guy raping my wife while his buddy steals all my stuff. Force me to wear a helmet when I ride my motorcycle and put the condom ON me before I have sex so I dont screw up and put a hole in it. While your at it just do a retina scan on me and tell me when I can go to the grocery store to buy my government cheese and gallon of 1% milk w no trans-fat. Better yet turn on my TV everyday to the government controlled SAFE-TO-WATCH station so I dont go and get any stupid ideas that might hurt my sensitive frontal lobe. On second thought just strap me to a bed and feed me through a tube so I dont have a chance a doing anything wrong or right in life. That sounds pretty good. Just me and my feeding tube and Public Broadcasting System for me. As I said I concede all points and am waiting on Mr. Obama, Mr. Hilllary Clinton or yes maybe just maybe Mr McCain to bring me my cheese. Should only take about three years!

[fusion]

Sorry man, but you are what's wrong with this country. You're so brainwashed and uniformed it's scary.

[fusion]

"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether its a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

-Hermann Goering. Hitler's Reich-Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials after WWII.

[Disclaimer]

+1 for Quote of the Day

[kawi kid]

"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether its a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

-Hermann Goering. Hitler's Reich-Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials after WWII.

have you ever seen the video called men behind the curtain? pretty good vid. look it up

[fusion]

have you ever seen the video called men behind the curtain? pretty good vid. look it up

The one that begins with the explanation of the currency and it's main goal in producing debt? I saw just the beginning and it looks really interesting. I have it bookmarked I think and I meant to go back and watch it when I have the chance. Thanks for the reminder Gonna try and watch it tonight after I get my papers written.

[kawi kid]

yea that the one its really interesting and really long at the same time but i never got bored at anytime through it.

[vectorvictor]

link please. I try to be as open minded and as well educated on the information available so as not to be considered a mind numb robot following a Hitler style regime!

[fusion]

link please. I try to be as open minded and as well educated on the information available so as not to be considered a mind numb robot following a Hitler style regime!

That's good to hear. I'll find the link when I get home and post it up for you for that vid.

[vectorvictor]

link please.....i said please!

[fusion]

link please.....i said please!

Bah got busy Here is the link to the first part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cneX_EIR1AY

[kawi kid]

what did you think of the video everyone

[fusion]

Works been kicking my ass so I haven't had the chance to watch it yet.

[robhawk]

Per fusion's post -- it's all about perspective. If you think not wearing a lapel pin, or not putting your hand over your heart on the anthem (which, as Fusion correctly pointed out, is not necessary per MODERN customs), or think that someone should be judged by what SOMEONE else says (reverend d-bag)... if you think all that stuff is as egregious as killing 4,000 soldiers to go to war under falsehoods to battle "terror" then you have obviously lost perspective in life.

Guess what McCain wants to do??.... more of the same.

Those Service members were not killed by Bush, they died serving their country while upholding and defending the constitution and freedom like they swore they would, to say they were killed by our president (regardless of how anyone feels about him) is kind of an insult to those who have served and died for this country while performing what was asked of them.

[Disclaimer]

Those Service members were not killed by Bush, they died serving their country while upholding and defending the constitution and freedom like they swore they would, to say they were killed by our president (regardless of how anyone feels about him) is kind of an insult to those who have served and died for this country while performing what was asked of them.

I completely agree with you and wholeheartedly support the troops -- But the premise of my idea is that when one is asked to make the ultimate sacrifice for their country, then the man responsible for asking them to make that sacrifice should bear the responsibility of justifying his reasoning for it. Obviously, the reasoning was flawed and therefore those who sacrificed their lives were not necessarily justified.

It's one thing to ask a sacrifice of someone to serve their country, it's a whole other to ask someone to give their life for it. The latter has a exponentially larger burden of justification.

I just think it's funny that the same people who ask servicemembers to make these sacrifices are the same people the want porkbarrel military spending for everything but direct troop support (including body armor and support for veteran's benefits).

That is what I have a problem with. The President speaks out of the one side of his mouth that we need to be proud and support our 'heroes' and spend all our money to fund our military (i.e. shame on you democrats that won't pass budget without stipulations on spending), yet on the other side of his mouth, he's cutting VA programs and budgets.

<---- President Bush

^----- our troops

[robhawk]

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

That is the Oath you take..... I have had the pleasure of reciting that myself.

Soldiers creed

I am an American Soldier.

I am a Warrior and member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I am disciplined,. physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.

I am an expert and I am a professional.

I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.

I am guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

I am an American Soldier.

I bolded the part that is relevant in this conversation.

I think Sadam was an enemy to all who met him, namely the USA, nearly all the population is grateful for what we have done for that country. I lived with the general population in Iraq for a year, what we have done is a justice for the rights of the citizens of that country. There has always been war, and along with war comes death, I don’t think any other war has had such low casualties. I would go back and do it all over again without question.

[Disclaimer]

I won't argue that Saddam was anti-American in more recent times, but the premise of starting a war over "terror" and "WMDs" just did not check out. And, if you know certain aspects of American political history, the US helped Saddam into power as well as providing him with a cache of weapons. Given all that, it still begs the question -- was Saddam really a threat to US sovereignty? I say no - he wasn't attacking us on our own soil, and it was the first time in US history we performed a pre-emptive strike.

Regarding your quotes:

I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.

Yes, that is pertinent to our discussion, but are you saying you took that oath blindly? According to some, Cuba is an enemy of the US, yet we're not attacking them in close combat. Communist China is an enemy of the US, yet we're not attacking them either. Who's the judge of who are enemies are and if they're worthy of engaging in combat? Are there criteria, or is it subjective?

I think the second half of this quote explains a lot:

I am guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

That is a very elitist view on the world. I enjoy the American way of life, but others may not. Some people may like living in tribal huts in the jungle, who am I to force my views of a 'way of life' on them? There are many excuses for that train of thought, but they aren't really logical. Even under the most oppressive of regimes, where there's a will there's a way. Just like terrorism. All this Homeland security BS, I don't feel any safer because it's still a human run system, and humans make mistakes. If someone has enough conviction that they really wanted to blowup a plane today, or attack a building - they would.

[robhawk]

The President gets to make the decision on what threats to take action against that is why he holds the title of commander and chief. We (and I say we as Americans) voted him into that position, and I do believe that congress has to approve any declaration of war or military engagement (I could be wrong on that, I'm not much for politics). Saying that I stand behind what I said before, I did not join blindly, I joined after 9-11 full well knowing what lay ahead for me, and if you ever had to spend one min in the shoes of those poor people under Saddam's rule you would agree it was worth it to do what we did regardless of the pretense's. More Humans were killed monthly by him then have died from the US since the beginning of the war. And as far as your statement on the Soldiers creed having an elitist view on the world, I believe it states "I am guardian of freedom and the American way of life" which is what you enjoy everyday, and if its too elitist for you then leave the exit door is always open. I have been to Iraq.... have you..... we have not forced any "way of life" on them only given them the choice to enjoy some of the freedoms that we do. I can not think of any human that does not enjoy freedom.