Turbo size....

[SPLN SUX]

Originally posted by pbsracerx:

I would ask the guys over at www.s40concents.net

ive been a member on there for a while and youd be surprised how little those guys know about engines period. I can think of about 2 or 3 people who might know, but i havent asked. They all talk about upgrading to larger Mitsu turbos like 14T, 16T, 18/19T... only one guy has made a kit and it uses a small trim t3/t4. So really when it comes down to it, im in uncharted waters... again.

 

I was doing somemore thinking and i think the Super 60 MIGHT do the trick. With ONLY an ECU upgrade, i can make a 40bhp/52lb-ft jump... that leaves about 70-80hp left to gain from exhaust work, a turbo swap and nearly double the boost pressure.

 

I dunno... ill have plenty of time to figure it out.

[BiG BeN]

Originally posted by MRMEANR:

this isnt the first turbo engine ive built so ive already been comparing not maps, but actull engine setups ive seen run. I dont need much more than 300bhp but i dont want to be running so much pressure that im crushing pistons. Boost pressure isnt what you look at anyway... your power comes from the CFM. Thats why bigger turbos make just as much power if not more at lower pressures. I dont plan on running much more than 29inHG so im thinking a super 60 isnt going to get the 300bhp.

 

Im still going over specs and stuff because i still really dont know too much about this fuckin Volvo engine. Im almost scared to touch it but i guess its just like every other one... just more elaborate...

why limit yourself to 14psi? the OEM turbo i had supports 300hp with a real quick spool,but you had to push 18psi or so to get there.if the turbo can handle it,whats the difference between CFM,and pressure? also, whats with the InHg stuff? are you a weatherman?

[rl]

Originally posted by BiG BeN:

if the turbo can handle it,whats the difference between CFM,and pressure?

HEAT!

[SPLN SUX]

First off... inHG is just like saying psi or Bar... its just a finer measurement to tune with.

 

1 Bar = 14.7psi = 29.5inHG

 

Im used to measuring vacuum on NA engines so i just carried it over to boost pressure so i wouldnt confuse myself smile.gif

 

 

Yes, when you presurize air, its gets hotter. I have a bigger, badder FMIC, but that wont do it alone. If you use a turbo that pumps more CFM(cubic feet per minute) of air, you dont need to pressurize it as much to get the same effect.

 

Remember properties of fluid dynamics... the higher the pressure of a fluid, the lower the velocity the fluid moves thru a confined space.

 

FYI - Fluid = ANYTHING that flows... liquids, gases, plasmas, etc.

 

Now with engines, its all about air intake and exhaust gas VELOCITY. So, in order to increase both and make more power, you have to give up something.... spool time. So the trade off is more power, at less pressure but with higher lag.

 

Im sure i can hook up some sort of alky injection to aid the process a bit further.

 

Another reason i dont want to run higher pressure is the internals... id prefer not to crush the pistons. I dont want to open this thing up if i dont have to.

[turbomark]

Those are all auto's right? I'd worry about blowing that up first before your engine.

[Mallard]

Originally posted by MRMEANR:

Another reason i dont want to run higher pressure is the internals... id prefer not to crush the pistons. I dont want to open this thing up if i dont have to.

I've never seen a crushed piston, but i'd worry about your rods. Any idea what the stock ones can handle?

 

How about the auto tranny?

 

How about piggybacks? What works with your car? E-manage? S-AFC?

 

How big is your stock turbo? What kind of power can it support? Can it be modified?

 

These are all things I think you need to figure out before you decide to slap a bigger turbo on. How much power are you looking to make?

 

I ask all of this because in the Protege world: S-AFC's don't work, the auto tranny's are weak, our rods can't handle lots of power, and our stock T-25 has been modified by some people and now pumps out 283whp @ 13psi and 338whp @ 15psi.

[Moe7]

What type of tranny, ZF 5-speed?

[Guest ERock]

ive been a member on there for a while and youd be surprised how little those guys know about engines period. I can think of about 2 or 3 people who might know, but i havent asked. They all talk about upgrading to larger Mitsu turbos like 14T, 16T, 18/19T... only one guy has made a kit and it uses a small trim t3/t4. So really when it comes down to it, im in uncharted waters... again.

 

I was doing somemore thinking and i think the Super 60 MIGHT do the trick. With ONLY an ECU upgrade, i can make a 40bhp/52lb-ft jump... that leaves about 70-80hp left to gain from exhaust work, a turbo swap and nearly double the boost pressure.

 

I dunno... ill have plenty of time to figure it out.

you havent been there long enough aparantly...there are alot of new guys to the tuning world that dont know what they're talking about, but do some searching, especially for Swedish S40s by AutoTech Motor and you'll see how they do it. There are many S40s in excess of 400bhp and a couple over 600, all of which are in 12 second range and below. The problem is the kits they use are very hard to get here, but they are easily replicated. For instance, ATM's 280hp kit for the S40 is a chip, intake, Turboback exhuast, TD04HL-16T turbo with adapter plate, and some fueling upgrades. Substitute the 16T with a GT28R or RS and thats it.

 

The reason Volvo tuners like to talk about the TD04 series turbos is because they are Honda-style interchangeable on all the 5 cylinder motors. When a bolt-on 19T can make 330whp, you wouldnt have to worry about any other turbos in that range. The problem with the S40 is the funky bolt pattern on the exhuast that only accepts the stock 12T (which will make 220-230bhp) and the 14T from the Euro spec T4 (which makes up to 250-260)

 

 

so...if you want around 330bhp, get the Garrett adapter kit from www.volvomotorsports.com coming out later this week, buy a disco potato, get a custom exhuast, get an Upsolute chip, E-manage, or Unichip, get it dyno tuned, and voila! a swedish meatball mustang killer.

 

any questions?

[SPLN SUX]

Originally posted by ERock:

you havent been there long enough aparantly...there are alot of new guys to the tuning world that dont know what they're talking about, but do some searching, especially for Swedish S40s by AutoTech Motor and you'll see how they do it. There are many S40s in excess of 400bhp and a couple over 600, all of which are in 12 second range and below. The problem is the kits they use are very hard to get here, but they are easily replicated. For instance, ATM's 280hp kit for the S40 is a chip, intake, Turboback exhuast, TD04HL-16T turbo with adapter plate, and some fueling upgrades. Substitute the 16T with a GT28R or RS and thats it.

 

The reason Volvo tuners like to talk about the TD04 series turbos is because they are Honda-style interchangeable on all the 5 cylinder motors. When a bolt-on 19T can make 330whp, you wouldnt have to worry about any other turbos in that range. The problem with the S40 is the funky bolt pattern on the exhuast that only accepts the stock 12T (which will make 220-230bhp) and the 14T from the Euro spec T4 (which makes up to 250-260)

 

 

so...if you want around 330bhp, get the Garrett adapter kit from www.volvomotorsports.com coming out later this week, buy a disco potato, get a custom exhuast, get an Upsolute chip, E-manage, or Unichip, get it dyno tuned, and voila! a swedish meatball mustang killer.

 

any questions?

Well, you havent known me long enough either smile.gif I dont like useing kits and stuff. I enjoy being original with what i use and how i go about making power.

 

Ill be making my very own "mach" manifold from scratch, then sending it to a buddy of mine who can make it out of what ever i want. I dont like using adapters and things like that because when stuff is mass produced... 9 times out of 10, it gets slopy and the tolerences are wide. Im just stubborn like that i guess.

 

Im looking for 300bhp/250+ lb-ft @ 29inHG or less. If i can get that... it will be plenty quick for me for a while... at least till i can pay a good portion of the car off anyway smile.gif

[Guest doggunracing]

Originally posted by MRMEANR:

Ill be making my very own "mach" manifold from scratch

mock: constituting a copy or imitation of something

 

Don't get an E-manage, they're crap smile.gif

[Guest ERock]

Ill be making my very own "mach" manifold from scratch, then sending it to a buddy of mine who can make it out of what ever i want. I dont like using adapters and things like that because when stuff is mass produced... 9 times out of 10, it gets slopy and the tolerences are wide. Im just stubborn like that i guess.

 

Im looking for 300bhp/250+ lb-ft @ 29inHG or less. If i can get that... it will be plenty quick for me for a while... at least till i can pay a good portion of the car off anyway [smile]

I totally agree with you, which is why i have a custom exhuast and the fact that the only part of a "kit" posted above is an adapter plate and some pre-terminated oil lines, the rest is just parts. Pretty much all you need to research for this is the turbo, i say go with a disco potato or a GT25. The rest is just making the hardware fit.

 

also, if you are going to make 300bhp, you're probably going to make around 320lb-ft of torque, Volvo engines dont like to rev, but they make shitloads of torque.

 

If you have a friend that can make manifolds well, i would like to be a part of that too...ive been saying from the beginning that the stock exhuat manifold is crap, a tubular manifold would give big gains. we should do this together, we have similar goals and i know the engine pretty well. when did you plan on doing any of this stuff?

[DeathSandwich]

wow... lots of reading going on in this thread... i feel like i'm getting smarter... graemlins/popcorn.gif

[Mallard]

Originally posted by ERock:

I totally agree with you, which is why i have a custom exhuast and the fact that the only part of a "kit" posted above is an adapter plate and some pre-terminated oil lines, the rest is just parts. Pretty much all you need to research for this is the turbo, i say go with a disco potato or a GT25. The rest is just making the hardware fit.

 

also, if you are going to make 300bhp, you're probably going to make around 320lb-ft of torque, Volvo engines dont like to rev, but they make shitloads of torque.

If you're looking for 300hp I wouldn't go with a T-25. The 'potato' is definately better suited for that. The only "high" HP Protege's still using the stock T-25 have been modified with a T-28 compressor and some porting. And that's with a slightly higher displacement then you have plus 9.1:1 compression. (what's your compression ratio BTW)

 

Modern Performance in NJ can set you up with a nicely modded t-25, but I'd suggest just buying the GT28RS...probably costs as much, if not cheaper.

 

doggun - why do you think the E-manage is crap? I had heard a few good things about it, although not researched it that heavily. Plus, they supposedly just unvailed the new version that has a WB O2 input and self-tuning capability.

[BiG BeN]

he said gt25, it's different.flows 44lb/min as opposed to the gt28rs at 35lb/min. those are approximate as they vary depending on who's selling it.

[Mallard]

Doesn't "Garret T-25" = "GT-25?"

 

So, you're saying a GT25 flows more then a GT28RS?

[SPLN SUX]

Originally posted by Mallard:

Doesn't "Garret T-25" = "GT-25?"

 

So, you're saying a GT25 flows more then a GT28RS?

No.

 

Yes.

 

The Volvo has 9:1 compression. It also uses the Seimens 2000 ECU so piggy-backs... dont work, the ECU just overrides them.

 

Eric -

 

I dont know when exactly ill be moching(thanks for the spell chk) up the manifold, but i know i need to get some pipe, and a schotty flange first. Then i can take some measurements and do what i can to make it all go together. When i get that done, ill send it up to Brian and have him copy it out of 304SS or something of that nature and TIG it up all nice. He can do ceramic coating too so ill probably have that done.

 

As soon as im ready to do it, ill get ahold of you and we can collectivly put a block-back system together.

[Mallard]

Originally posted by MRMEANR:

The Volvo has 9:1 compression. It also uses the Seimens 2000 ECU so piggy-backs... dont work, the ECU just overrides them.

There has to be a way to trick the ECU. People were having the same problems with the Protege learning around piggybacks, but now there are known ways around it. I have an AFC on my car that hasn't had a problem since it was installed. Also, people figured out how to wire up the e-manage to work.

 

The Siemens 2000 is just OBDII, right? Anything particularly special about it that keeps people from using a piggyback?

 

Anyone have links showing the difference between a Garret T-25 and a GT-25? I'm still interested in knowing how they're different.

[Guest ERock]

Here's the deal with piggybacks:

 

Some '40 owners tried to use SAFCs but couldnt get the ECU let it work, i dont know the details, only that it wasnt worth the effort.

 

Now heres where the "search" feature of a forum is helpful...about a year ago, there was a guy with an S40 T4 in Mexico with a custom T3/T4 setup and eventually installed an E-Manage, and yes, it worked, most of the members werent around long enough to know this. The problem is he had boost issues and blew the engine before he could finalize the tune, we havent heard from him since.

 

the two options i am looking at are 1) get an UPsolute chip and work with them to mail my ECU back and forth to get tuned which would be a total pain in the ass or...

 

2) what im leaning towards is a Unichip piggyback which i have heard only good things about. Auto Assets is a Unichip dealer and they have a Dynojet. i am going to talk to them about one sometime this week or next.

[Mallard]

Originally posted by ERock:

Here's the deal with piggybacks:

 

Some '40 owners tried to use SAFCs but couldnt get the ECU let it work, i dont know the details, only that it wasnt worth the effort.

 

Now heres where the "search" feature of a forum is helpful...about a year ago, there was a guy with an S40 T4 in Mexico with a custom T3/T4 setup and eventually installed an E-Manage, and yes, it worked, most of the members werent around long enough to know this. The problem is he had boost issues and blew the engine before he could finalize the tune, we havent heard from him since.

 

the two options i am looking at are 1) get an UPsolute chip and work with them to mail my ECU back and forth to get tuned which would be a total pain in the ass or...

 

2) what im leaning towards is a Unichip piggyback which i have heard only good things about. Auto Assets is a Unichip dealer and they have a Dynojet. i am going to talk to them about one sometime this week or next.

SAFC's are not compatable with my car either. I'm using a Split Second PSC1. It has an internal MAP sensor that can automatically switch between maps depending on the amount of boost. That way I don't need to re-tune with each mod that effects my boost.

 

The Protege's that use e-manage have to wire in a pressure switch. I don't know all the specific of it since I didn't go with that option, but it may be the same with your car. There's a lot of info, including wiring diagrams on the Protege forum if your interested.

 

The only reason I would not go with the UniChip is because it's only tunable by certified UniChip tuners. That means every time you change something and want a re-tune you're probably looking at $75-100. At least with other options you can just plug in a laptop and do it yourself.

[SPLN SUX]

Well before i do anything, im going to fork out for another ECU. That way i dont have to just look at my car just sitting there.

 

Im deffinatly useing Upsolute... ill probably just drive there smile.gif

[Mallard]

Unless you already know for sure that another ECU will work on you car, I wouldn't spend the money to find out.

 

A lot of newer cars don't like swapping ECU's. I'd especially be afraid to try it if your ignition key has a computer chip in it.