Joe Posted March 15, 2002 Report Share Posted March 15, 2002 Mark, I have a few questions regarding the NPR intercoolers and water injection. The tanks on the intercoolers are cast, which we all know is a porous material, but will it really matter? If it does, i was going to do something like paint them with a quality paint or perhaps an undercoating, to seal them up. We are not looking for heat transfer from the tanks to the air, just from the core. As for water injection, have you located any of the parts for me? I was wondering if the aquamist would flow enough for what i would be using it for. I am not sure about the CFM of my turbo, but i know detonation is a bad thing. Call me and we can hit up applebees or S&S and further discuss this..... Anyone else on here have an idea about either? I will be running a 50/50 water/alcohol mix, and probably add a 5 second shot of WD40. I know the Buick guys run straight alcohol, but my kit is going to be serving 2 purposes, knock quench, and added intercooling effect. Let me know...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest relvinnian Posted March 15, 2002 Report Share Posted March 15, 2002 Damn Joe, you should know I already have all of this info! From what I've researched the NPR has a VERY low pressure drop compared to other "cheap" alternatives! Here's some info on that: The NPR IC: at 329cfm and 290°F on the inlet side of the IC, the pressure drop is 0.09psi. The outlet temp is 130°F, heat rejected is 55553 BTU/hr, and the calculated heat exchange area is 1404 square inches. Starion IC : (the bigger one) at 324cfm and 292°F on the inlet side of the IC, the pressure drop is 0.29psi. The outlet temp is 139°F, heat rejected is 52287 BTU/hr, and the calculated heat exchange area is 1217 square inches. Saab 9000 IC: at 332cfm and 295°F on the inlet side of the IC, the pressure drop is 0.81psi. The outlet temp is 123°F, heat rejected is 60350 BTU/hr, and the calculated heat exchange area is 1602 square inches. Volvo IC: at 331cfm and 293°F on the inlet side of the IC, the pressure drop is 0.55psi. The outlet temp is 126°F, heat rejected is 58809 BTU/hr, and the calculated heat exchange area is 1539 square inches. As far as water injection, I've found that about 1cc of water per 8.66cc of actual fuel flow (not rated injector flow), per minute is optimal. Meaning around 300cc water, per 2600cc of fuel flow, and so on. I'm still researching good components to develop a good system. [ 15 March 2002, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: relvinnian ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraGlue Posted March 15, 2002 Report Share Posted March 15, 2002 What he said. lol You'll need to calculate whether or not any of those ICs are going to give you the temp drop and airflow you need. It sounds like the NPR does a pretty good job of minimizing pressure loss. They may already be painted from Isuzu, btw. Aquamist is marginal at best, given your intended airflow. You would be best to consider one of the Buick GN systems and/or your own custom deal. It's my opinion that given the larger amounts of water that high boost engines need, that it might be worth considering building a two-stage setup. 50/50 water-alcohol mix has been shown most effective in experiments. Higher % of alcohol don't give as much intake temp drop, but act as more of a fuel enrichment mechanism. Think of it as a poor man's constant flow fuel injection at that point. As far as components, I know that quite a few setups use the "Shureflo" (sp?) pump. Nozzles can be had (brass) from McMaster-Carr, and a fairly simple circuit can be put together with an arming switch plus a Hobbes switch and solenoid to activate the system at a predetermined boost pressure. How I would consider rigging up a multi-stage setup would be to use two Hobbes switches set at different boost pressures, and a second solenoid supplying a second nozzle. I'd also try to run the pump at a higher voltage in the second stage to keep pressure uniform. The reason for doing that is that you might bog the motor initially with higher water flows. I'd try a single stage setup first, though, then deal with bogging if it occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2002 this all sounds pretty good. I have a few ideas on the water injection, but just need turbo CFM and the efficiency rating of a rotary engine. I wonder if BSFC would come into play for this. I am still looking for an NPR, if you guys see one, let me know! Brian, Jegs has electric fans up to 2500 cfm (for a double fan unit, for 200 dollars. Not bad, and maybe Nick can "hook me up?" smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renner Posted March 16, 2002 Report Share Posted March 16, 2002 Just so you know, the 14" and 16" Perma-Cool high performance electric fans both are rated to move 2950 cfm of air. They list for around $84 and $89. I have an 18" Perma-Cool on my car, works pretty good, but is only rated at 2500 cfm. At the time I bought it, it moved more air then the rest, basically the biggest they had. But they have since bumped up the rpm's on the smaller ones so that they move more volume, and they are cheaper then the 18". Here is a good link for a do it yourself water injection kit, it even has some part numbers listed. But this one describes spraying the water into the inlet side of the compressor, not very good for the leading edges of the compressor wheel at all. http://www.dawesdevices.com/howto.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 16, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2002 This is Brian posting from BFE: Yeah, I've read about the effects of water injection pre-compressor. People tend to use the excuse that the turbo "atomizes" the water more (Mainly an excuse from those that are too cheap to buy a proper pump and nozzle for atomization). If anything it would be just before the throttle body, because from what I read the main advantage is when the water flashes to steam in the combustion chamber, eliminating many of the hotspots. P.S. - Thanks for the tip on the perma-cool fan, Joe and I will look into that. The next option was the Blackmagic which is rated at 2800 cfm, and costs around $186 through jegs. Seems like a much better deal smile.gif [ 16 March 2002, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: More Tools Than Columbus Racing ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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