5.0L Ford guys

[MrMeanGreen]

I got a buddy here at work with a 90 Stang GT. He damaged his EGR valve, and a new one is $152. What would be the drawbacks, if any, to removing it and blocking off the holes? I know it'll get rid if the hot gases and such, maybe free up some underhood room and a few hp. But will it throw a service engine light? If so, any way around this without a custom chip?

 

Thanks smile.gif

[stolen 5.0]

my check engine light flashes all the time. My buddy hooked it up to a computer to check and see what was wrong. EGR came up, my car still runs good. it might have came up because my air pump is off and all the tubing for that shit is gone too.

this might help some

[SupraGlue]

On our cars, we block it off completely, then run a resistor to kill the check engine light. An OBD1 or OBD2 car will generally throw a code (hence the check engine light) for malfunctioning EGR if it's removed, btw.

[Clifford Automotive]

actually a a bad egr shouldnt normally throw a code. my buddys 5 liter had no problems with this he does not have any egr related parts on the car

 

nor do i on my and i have no problem

 

jason from my personal knowledge is not useing all of his egr components, i know this because well...you know

[Boost-n-Juice]

You will only get an error code from a clogged EGR. Not having one won't hurt a thing. I've never ran one.

 

It's a common problem for these to get clogged and cause the engine light to come on. All you have to do is take it off and clean it and then you're back in biddness.

[DTM Brian]

Take it off and put a plate on there to block it.

[SupraGlue]

Originally posted by Faster than Yours:

actually a a bad egr shouldnt normally throw a code. my buddys 5 liter had no problems with this he does not have any egr related parts on the car

 

nor do i on my and i have no problem

 

jason from my personal knowledge is not useing all of his egr components, i know this because well...you know

Huh. Score another one for the Ford ECU.

[Don 95Vert]

Actually, there is nothing performance-wise to be gained by removing the EGR. It only functions during part throttle when the engine is warm. It does not operate at WOT. When it is functioning, it actually cools combustion temperatures (less oxygen). Additionally, the EEC adds timing and pulls fuel at part throttle to compensate for the inert gases the EGR is adding-so while YOU may not have problems, it will certainly make a car much more susceptible to pinging than a car with an EGR. I suggest he get one from a junkyard and clean it with carb cleaner.

[Guest stevil]

Originally posted by Don 95Vert:

When it is functioning, it actually cools combustion temperatures (less oxygen). Additionally, the EEC adds timing and pulls fuel at part throttle to compensate for the inert gases the EGR is adding-so while YOU may not have problems, it will certainly make a car much more susceptible to pinging than a car with an EGR. I suggest he get one from a junkyard and clean it with carb cleaner.

Can the Ford guys burn a new chip to delete the EGR, so that removing the system will be OK, and it won't compensate for the EGR? Just curious, I know we can. Just another option, something to think about for the next chip maybe? (I wouldn't burn a chip just for EGR removal)

 

My EGR system is still intact, but I've already programmed it out. I have EGR block off plates sitting here for whenever I feel frisky.

[Don 95Vert]

Yep, a chip can delete the function so it won't throw a code, but then you also have to mod the timing and fuel curves to make them normal. It's real easy to do with an EEC Tuner.

[MrMeanGreen]

Cool, I'll have my buddy look at this tonight while I'm at work. It's much appreciated!

[Boost-n-Juice]

Here is an example of the programming in the EEV IV computer...Look for the bold section

 

A9L

 

CHECKSUM_BASE_ADDRESS 8192 # Set to 0 to clear Error code 15

WOT_VOLTAGE 2.71 # WOT breakpoint (TPS Voltage - 1)

OL_TP_VOLTAGE 2.71 # Throttle position to force Open Loop. (TPS Voltage - 1)

PART_THROTTLE_SPARK_ADDER 0 # Part Throttle spark adder (Deg BTDC)

WOT_SPARK_ADDER 0 # WOT spark adder (Deg BTDC)

TIP_IN_RETARD 0 # Maximum tip-in spark retard (Deg BTDC)

LOW_DWELL 0.5 # Max low speed dwell (off time in ms)

HIGH_DWELL 0.199997 # Max high speed dwell (off time in ms)

 

WOT_ADVANCE_VS_RPM # WOT spark Advance vs RPM

( 16383.8, 26 ) ( 5000, 26 ) ( 3500, 22 )

( 2600, 22.5 ) ( 2150, 21.5 ) ( 1800, 18.5 )

( 1000, 8 ) ( 0, 8 ) ( 0, 8 )

 

 

WOT_ADVANCE_VS_ECT # WOT spark adder vs. Engine Coolant Temperature(ECT, Deg.)

( 254, -4 ) ( 246, -4 ) ( 236, -2 )

( 200, 0 ) ( 120, 0 ) ( 86, 3 )

( -256, 3 )

 

 

WOT_ADVANCE_VS_ACT # WOT spark adder vs. Air Charge Temperature(ACT, Deg.)

( 254, -6 ) ( 240, -6 ) ( 150, 0 )

( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 )

( -256, 0 )

 

 

PT_ADVANCE_VS_ACT #

( 254, -2 ) ( 190, -2 ) ( 160, 0 )

( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 )

 

 

WOT_ADVANCE_VS_BP # WOT spark adder vs. Barometric Pressure ("Hg, Degrees).

( 31.875, 0 ) ( 27.75, 0 ) ( 26.5, 4 )

( 23.5, 4 ) ( 0, 12 )

 

 

ADVANCE_RATE_VS_RPM #

( 8160, 1 ) ( 4000, 1 ) ( 3008, 1.5 )

( 992, 2 ) ( 0, 2 ) ( 0, 2 )

 

 

MIN_LOW_SPEED_DWELL #

( 4095.94, 0.00279999 ) ( 15, 0.00279999 ) ( 14, 0.00300026 )

( 12, 0.00399971 ) ( 10, 0.00449944 ) ( 0, 0.00449944 )

 

 

MIN_HIGH_SPEED_DWELL #

( 4095.94, 0.00300026 ) ( 15, 0.00300026 ) ( 13, 0.0033493 )

( 12, 0.00370026 ) ( 10, 0.00499916 ) ( 0, 0.00499916 )

 

 

BASE_SPARK_TABLE # Base Spark Table (Deg BTDC)(Load vs RPM)

28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34

28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 28 28

28 28 33 36 36 37 38 38 28 28

25 26 28 29 32 32 38 40 28 28

20 21 25 28 31 32 33 34 28 28

15 15 16 16 18 20 23 27 27 27

8 10 10 11 13 15 21 21 21 21

8 8 9 10 12 14 18 21 21 21

 

 

SEALEVEL_LOM_SPARK_TABLE # Sea level LOM spark table.

28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34

28 28 28 32 34 35 35 34 28 28

28 28 33 37 37 38 38 38 28 28

25 26 30 37 38 36 36 38 28 28

20 21 25 32 34 34 33 32 28 28

15 16 16 16 18 20 26 27 27 27

8 8 9 10 11 14 21 21 21 21

8 8 9 10 11 13 21 21 21 21

 

 

ALTITUDE_LOM_SPARK_TABLE # Altitude LOM Spark Table (Deg BTDC)(Load vs RPM)

28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34

28 28 28 31 33 34 34 34 34 34

25 26 30.5 33.5 35 36.5 38 38 38 38

20 21 20 24 31 32 33 33 33 33

14 14 14 14 16 21 27 27 27 27

8 9 10 11 13 17 22 22 22 22

6.5 8 9 10 12 14 18 18 18 18

6.5 6.5 9 10 12 14 18 18 18 18

 

 

SPARK_TABLE_RPM_SCALING # x axis RPM scaling(RPM, Cell)

( 16383.8, 9 ) ( 4000, 9 ) ( 3000, 8 )

( 1500, 5 ) ( 500, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )

( 0, 0 )

 

 

SPARK_TABLE_LOAD_SCALING # Y axis load scaling(Normalized Load, Cell)

( 1.99997, 7 ) ( 0.75, 7 ) ( 0.600006, 6 )

( 0.100006, 1 ) ( 0.0499878, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )

( 0, 0 )

 

OPEN_LOOP_FUEL_MULTIPLIER 0.996094 # Global open loop fuel multiplier

ENGINE_DISPLACEMENT 301.083 # Engine Displacement

MAF_VOLTAGE 4.78523 # Max MAF voltage

 

MAF_FUNCTION # Mass Air Transfer Function (Volts, Kg/Hr)

( 15.9998, 835.509 ) ( 4.76807, 835.509 ) ( 4.44312, 695.465 )

( 4.177, 595.977 ) ( 3.88599, 499.658 ) ( 3.54395, 399.219 )

( 3.35498, 347.574 ) ( 3.14893, 295.612 ) ( 2.90991, 243.334 )

( 2.69409, 201.828 ) ( 2.58203, 182.5 ) ( 2.44995, 161.272 )

( 2.31592, 142.261 ) ( 2.15405, 120.083 ) ( 1.98901, 100.122 )

( 1.88989, 90.2996 ) ( 1.80298, 82.3786 ) ( 1.69092, 72.8734 )

( 1.57397, 62.4176 ) ( 1.46802, 54.1798 ) ( 1.32104, 44.6745 )

( 1.18188, 36.7535 ) ( 1.09106, 32.6346 ) ( 0.884033, 23.7631 )

( 0.75, 18.6936 ) ( 0.571045, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 )

( 0, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 ) ( 0, 13.6242 )

 

 

ISC_DURING_CRANK # ISC Duty cycle during crank. Keyed ofF ECT at start. (ECT, Duty Cycle)

( 254, 0.601562 ) ( 180, 0.601562 ) ( 160, 0.992188 )

( -256, 0.992188 ) ( -256, 0.992188 ) ( -256, 0.992188 )

 

 

BASE_FUEL_TABLE # Base Fuel Table (A/F ratio)(Load vs ECT)

16.3556 16.3556 16.1269 15.7837 15.2119 14.9831 14.64 13.9537 13.9537 13.9537

16.1269 16.1269 15.555 15.2119 15.0975 14.9831 14.64 13.9537 13.9537 13.9537

12.9244 13.0387 13.0387 13.1531 13.2675 13.4962 13.4962 13.9537 13.9537 13.1531

12.4669 13.1531 13.1531 13.1531 13.6106 13.9537 13.9537 14.64 14.64 13.4962

11.6662 12.6956 13.0387 13.1531 13.6106 13.6106 13.9537 14.64 14.64 13.725

11.0944 11.0944 12.3525 12.3525 12.6956 13.1531 12.9244 13.0387 12.4669 12.4669

10.2937 10.2937 11.6662 11.6662 12.0094 12.3525 12.5812 12.5812 12.4669 12.3525

9.6075 9.6075 11.4375 11.4375 11.6662 12.0094 12.3525 12.3525 12.3525 12.3525

 

 

STARTUP_FUEL_TABLE # Subtract corresponding cell values from BASE_FUEL_TABLE for startup/warmup enrichment

3.08812 3.77437 2.745 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.25812 1.71562 3.08812

2.63062 3.31687 2.40187 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.48687 1.71562 2.63062

2.51625 2.51625 2.17312 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.3725 1.71562 2.51625

2.05875 1.94437 1.94437 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.71562 1.14375 1.71562 2.05875

1.48687 1.48687 1.3725 1.25812 1.14375 1.25812 1.25812 1.02937 1.25812 1.48687

1.14375 1.3725 1.02937 0.915 0.915 1.14375 1.14375 0.800625 0.915 1.14375

0.915 1.14375 0.800625 0.4575 0.343125 0.800625 0.800625 0.22875 0.4575 0.915

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

 

 

FUEL_TABLE_LOAD_SCALING # Y axis load scaling(Normalized Load, Cell)

( 1.99997, 7 ) ( 0.899994, 7 ) ( 0.700012, 5 )

( 0.399994, 3 ) ( 0.149994, 1 ) ( 0.0750122, 0 )

( 0, 0 )

 

 

FUEL_TABLE_ECT_SCALING #

( 254, 9 ) ( 240, 9 ) ( -30, 0 )

( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 ) ( -256, 0 )

 

 

WOT_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_RPM # WOT Fuel Multiplier vs RPM

( 16383.8, 0.945312 ) ( 6000, 0.945312 ) ( 4400, 0.953125 )

( 3800, 0.976562 ) ( 3200, 0.945312 ) ( 2400, 0.96875 )

( 1600, 0.90625 ) ( 0, 1 )

 

 

OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_RPM #

( 16383.8, 0 ) ( 1100, 0 ) ( 1075, 1 )

( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )

 

 

SEA_LEVEL_LUGGING_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER # Sea level fuel multiplier, RPM.

( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 1500, 1 ) ( 1200, 1.20312 )

( 750, 1.20312 ) ( 650, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )

( 0, 1 )

 

 

ALTITUDE_LUGGING_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER # Altitude lugging fuel multiplier, RPM.

( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )

( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )

( 0, 1 )

 

 

OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER_VS_ACT #

( 254, 1 ) ( 76, 1 ) ( 0, 0.8125 )

( -40, 0.640625 ) ( -256, 0.640625 ) ( -256, 0.640625 )

 

 

CRANK_FUEL_PULSEWIDTH_MULTIPLIER_VS_TIME #

( 8191.88, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )

( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )

 

 

CRANK_FUEL_PULSEWIDTH_VS_ECT #

( 65534, 0.0019989 ) ( 180, 0.0019989 ) ( 150, 0.00230026 )

( 70, 0.00569916 ) ( 40, 0.0105019 ) ( 20, 0.0141487 )

( 0, 0.0218887 ) ( -20, 0.0387611 ) ( -65536, 0.0387611 )

 

GLOBAL_ACCEL_MULTIPLIER 0.398438 # Global Accel pump multipler

 

ACCEL_ENRICHMENT_VS_TPS # Accelerator Enrichment Multiplier vs TP voltage

( 4.98054, 0 ) ( 4.16022, 0 ) ( 2.20706, 0.296875 )

( 0.976577, 0.953125 ) ( 0, 1 )

 

 

ACCEL_ENRICHMENT_FUEL_TABLE # Accelerator Enrichment Fuel Table(lb/min)

21 23 26 28 31 34 39 56

12 14 16 18 26 30 38 55

5 8 10 12 16.5 21 27 45

4 5 6 8 12.5 17 25.5 34

2 2 3 4.5 8 12.5 18 29

1.5 1.5 2 3 4.5 8 12 20

1.5 1.5 2 3 4.5 8 12 18

 

 

INJECTOR_BREAKPOINT_VS_BATTERY_VOLTAGE # Injector Breakpoint table (Voltage, lbs/rev)

( 4095.94, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 )

( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 )

( 0, 3.04478e-05 ) ( 0, 3.04478e-05 )

 

LOW_INJECTOR_SLOPE 26.0995 # Injector slope lbs/hr

HIGH_INJECTOR_SLOPE 19.6416 # Injector size lbs/hr

INJ_DELAY 0 # Global injector delay (crank deg.)

 

INJECTOR_TIMING_TABLE # Injector timing table

352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352

352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352

352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352

352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352 352

352 352 352 352 352 380 400 400 400 400

380 380 380 380 380 380 420 420 464 464

420 420 420 420 420 420 420 464 464 464

420 420 420 420 420 420 420 464 464 464

 

 

INJECTOR_FIRING_ORDER # Injector firing order

1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8

 

 

INJECTOR_OFFSET_VS_BATTERY_VOLTAGE #

( 15.9375, 0.90625 ) ( 14, 0.90625 ) ( 13, 1 )

( 12, 1.15625 ) ( 11, 1.40625 ) ( 10, 1.6875 )

( 9, 2.03125 ) ( 8, 2.59375 ) ( 7, 3.53125 )

( 6, 5.53125 ) ( 5.5, 7.5 ) ( 0, 7.5 )

 

 

INJECTOR_OUTPUT_PORT # Injector Output Port Table

0 0 0 0 2 2 2 2

 

FAN_TEMP 220 # Coolant temp for Electric Fan (Deg F)

FAN_ENABLE 0 # Electric Fan control enable(0=no, 1=yes)

HEDFHP 0 # HS Electro-Drive fan enable

ECT1_HS_FAN_ON 234 # HS Fan ECT1

ECT2_HS_FAN_ON 242 # HS Fan ECT2

CLOSED_THROTTLE_SPARK_ADDER 0 # Closed Throttle spark adder (Deg BTDC)

 

CLOSED_THROTTLE_OL_FUEL_MULTIPLIER # Closed Throttle Open Loop Fuel Multiplier

( 16383.8, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )

( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 ) ( 0, 1 )

 

DRIVE_IDLE 672 # Drive Idle RPM

NEUTRAL_IDLE 672 # Neutral Idle RPM

 

DESIRED_IDLE_AIRFLOW_IN_DRIVE # Desired idle airflow in drive (Kg/Hr)

( 4080, 54.2185 ) ( 1952, 54.2185 ) ( 1504, 42.9496 )

( 1008, 29.9797 ) ( 672, 20.4117 ) ( 0, 0 )

 

 

DESIRED_IDLE_AIRFLOW_IN_NEUTRAL # Desired idle airflow in neutral (Kg/Hr)

( 4080, 54.2185 ) ( 1952, 53.1554 ) ( 672, 20.4117 )

( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )

 

 

DASHPOT_CLIP # Maximum Dashpot airflow by RPM (RPM, Kg/Hr)

( 16383.8, 43.5476 ) ( 2000, 43.5476 ) ( 1500, 27.2156 )

( 500, 3.26906 ) ( 0, 3.26906 )

 

 

DASHPOT_DECREMENT_RATE # Dashpot decrement step at given flow (Kg/Hr(flow), Kg/Hr(step))

( 435.443, 1.70097 ) ( 20.4117, 1.70097 ) ( 17.6875, 1.22257 )

( 12.2457, 0.192688 ) ( 9.52811, 0.0531554 ) ( 1.68768, 0.0797331 )

( 0, 0.093022 )

 

PIP 961 # Minimum PIP period (PIP = 6250000/maxRPM)

HALF_FUEL_REV_LIMIT_ON 8000 # Turn on half-fuel rev limit

HALF_FUEL_REV_LIMIT_OFF 7500 # Turn off half-fuel rev limit

SECOND_SPEED_LIMITER_ON 127.5 # Turn on 2nd speed limiter (MPH)

SECOND_SPEED_LIMITER_OFF 127.5 # Turn off 2nd speed limiter (MPH)

FIRST_SPEED_LIMITER_ON 127.5 # Turn on 1st speed limiter (MPH)

FIRST_SPEED_LIMITER_OFF 127.5 # Turn off 1st speed limiter (MPH)

NO_FUEL_RPM 7000 # Max RPM (no fuel)

MIN_LOAD_FOR_CLOSED_LOOP 0.00500488 # Minimum load for CL contorl

TIME_AT_HIGH_LOAD_BEFORE_OPEN_LOOP 2 # Time at high load to force OL (sec)

MIN_ECT_FOR_FUEL_SHUTOFF 140 # Min ECT for decel fuel shutoff (Deg F)

MIN_RPM_FOR_FUEL_SHUTOFF 150 # Min RPM for decel fuel shutoff (Deg F)

MIN_ACT_FOR_ADAPTIVE_CONTROL 100 # Min ACT for Adaptive Control (Deg F)

MAX_ACT_FOR_ADAPTIVE_CONTROL 200 # Max ACT for Adaptive Control (Deg F)

EGR_MULTIPLIER 1 # EGR multiplier

EGR_TYPE 0 # EGR type (0=sonic, 1-PFE, 2=none) # Thermactor present (0-no, 1-yes)

 

EXHAUST_PULSE_DELAY #

10 10 10 10

10 10 10 10

10 10 10 10

10 10 10 10

10 10 10 10

10 10 10 10

10 10 10 10

10 10 10 10

 

NUMBER_OF_HEGOS 2 # Number of HEGO's

 

HEGO_AMPLITUDE #

0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031

0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031

0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031

0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031

0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031

0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031

0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031

0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031 0.0332031

 

 

HEGO_BIAS #

0 0.00683594 0.00683594 0.00683594

0 0.00195312 0.00195312 0.00195312

0 0 0 0

0 -0.00195312 -0.00195312 -0.00195312

0 -0.00195312 -0.00195312 -0.00195312

-0.00195312 -0.00390625 -0.00390625 -0.00390625

-0.00195312 -0.00585938 -0.00585938 -0.00585938

-0.0078125 -0.0078125 -0.0078125 -0.0078125

 

 

EMISSION_TABLE_LOAD_SCALING #

( 1.99997, 7 ) ( 0.75, 7 ) ( 0.600006, 6 )

( 0.100006, 1 ) ( 0.0499878, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )

( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )

 

 

EMISSION_TABLE_RPM_SCALING #

( 16383.8, 3 ) ( 3000, 3 ) ( 900, 1 )

( 700, 0 ) ( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )

( 0, 0 ) ( 0, 0 )

 

 

END

[20G TSi]

BC - do you happen to have an eeprom map, or even just the eprom locations (addresses) of those values?

[Boost-n-Juice]

Originally posted by Jasons TSi:

BC - do you happen to have an eeprom map, or even just the eprom locations (addresses) of those values?

I'm new to the whole eec tuner thing. I dunno shit yet. Still learning

[Don 95Vert]

Those values are from the EEC Tuner software-not all the tags from a Ford EEC are in the software, but enough to do a good job of tuning a car. To turn off the check engine light with an EEC Tuner you just turn it off where he highlighted it. It's a bit tougher changing the timing and fuel curves, but not too hard. Some people originally thought that turning off the function would automatically mod the curves-no one was really sure though-based on my experiences when I had my Tuner-turning off the function does not affect the timing and fuel curves.