4/20

[Guest Crankshaft]

<font color ="midnightblue">

Splendid! I'm glad to see I'm not the only one around here with any vestige of sanity remaining. And, although all your points are quite valid Mike, in all fairness, I think the healthcare scenario is a little extreme. Yes, marijuana does have those effects on people, but nothing I've read indicates it would be drastic enough for those kinds of circumstances to come about. So, although I have to disagree with your comment about that, your other point about drug dealers is dead on. Surely no one can support the career/lifestyle of the drug dealer, which by all accounts presents itself as corruption incarnate. These people are not productive to our society in any way, and to offer them any kind of defense simply on the grounds that they supply you with your pot is inexcusable.

 

And Rane, I'd like to reference you to one of my previous posts; you know, the big one. I'm not going to repeat myself every time you have a lapse of motivation and neglect to read what I've written. If you're going to argue your point, at the very least be informed of what you're arguing against. Otherwise, save us all the trouble and don't post.

 

To elaborate a little on what Mike so insightfully brought up, marijuana is a foreign substance to the body. It is not a naturally occurring chemical within the brain that the body releases during times of stress or tension. Therefore, by the inevitable laws of Mistress Nature, it cannot be intended for our use as a mental and physical relaxant; certainly not physical, as it tends to actually cause more duress upon the body and musculature after being used. Thus, there can be no genuine argument to illustrate the necessary or even beneficiary effects of smoking weed for relaxation. Empirical evidence alone (morality notwithstanding) provides us with ample reason to discount that claim as purely fallacious.

 

Bis Später

 

[ 24. April 2005, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Folkvang ]

[Dave1647545494]

I smoked on 4-20 a whole lot.

 

why

 

becuase its fun to get fucking wasted and be lazy.

 

your not going to change anyones mind...

 

Recreational drug use illegal or not is a personal choice.

 

you don't wanna smoke cool, but don't tell me what to do or bitch about my decisions.

[desperado]

Damn, this is what society as a whole has turned into and we have our own little microcosim of it right here on CR. Yuo know at first I figured that it was just the teenie boopers and 20 something crowd that was going to actually say why not smoke, but nope. Others say weel gee, whats' wrong with it other than it's illegal. It's not hurting anyone. Well neither does fucking your sister so is that ok too? ANd yes fucking your sister is illegal. I will not bring up the alcohol this for anything more than to remid you its legal, but the dimwhit that brought up speeding, shit, how do the two compair at all to begin with. That neithr of them hurt anyone. Or that "good drivers" should be able to drive fast if they want because they are good drivers. People aint that fucking smart, this thread right here is proof of that.So retards will be driving their short busses 90 because they think they are "good dribers", basically thinking something don't make it so. And yes, retards driving 90 do hurt people, just like ricers driving 90 (then again is there a difference?)

 

As far as you being pissed that the cops didn't arrest everyone with a cloud around their heads, well how do you arrest that many people all at once? More over if you start arresting them, the rest will scatter. Walking through a college campus with a video camera is a great idea. You have to remember that EVERYONE that is a student there has a photograph on file. Once they go through the videos and identify everyone smoking pot, the tickets will go out and the ones doing it will be thrown out of the school most likely. So not to worry about that. They will get what they deserve in due time. BTW, for you genius's here that have admitted to smoking weed, remember that there are law enforcement officials on this board. And that posting on a public forum like this is enough of an admission for legal action to be taken against you. Remember why it is that we DON"T CONDONE STREET RACING, and as far as this being a political thing. Get real, it's about right and wrong. It is ultimately WRONG to break the law, no matter how silly that law might be. So you are either condoning illegal behavior, or you don't. There really is no in between.

[Drunkendubber]

What the fuck have i missed here. Look yet another anti pot smoking post made by another person who has limited exposure on the subject and decided to create a Know all end all opinion on the topic. Pot ruins lives, Negative. People ruin their own lives. This topic has been beat to death in the senior section so im just going to say this. Everything in excess is detrimental to life function. Even consuming to much water at one time can end your life. So what you need to do with all of your antipot hate. Is get some initiative and invest your time in education people against excess. NOT against pot, alcohol, fatty foods...etc. You're attempts at blaming the nuclear bomb for killing the people of hiroshima are a failure of reasoned discourse. I'm sure youd like to blame the gun makers for killing all those people to. BLaming the inanimate object is the worste idea in the world. Step up, educate and move on. The people you know that smoke pot and are worthless were going to be worthless reguardless of what outlet they found to waste their time.

 

and just because you're a fucking cheering section copperhead im going to use you as my example. How much pot do you smoke? how much did you smoke when you were trying college? How were your grades in college? How about credits you actually earned? Jobs you assisted in the growth of society? which ones did you have? do you have? Rotation from menial job to menial job barely counts as productive to society and yet people like you continue to egg-on misinformed soap box whiners like folkvange that 1. are pissed that people expend their efforts in the search of various forms of a good time. 2. Is probably jealous that having being told by his parents how much drugs/alcohol and other illegals make a person a "Societal Degenerate". That when hes sees these Worthless unproductive Charity cases organized and in protest. (weird they must have read the constitution or something, but thats not possible they woulda been to busy being potheads) he thinks how can these kids break the rules and be successful when i dont break the rules and consider myself behind/at a disadvantage.

 

and now i need to address copperhead. Show me 1 statistic that says pot smokers lowers the resistanc of an individual enough to make a notable rise in health care cost. HOLY SHIT you guys are right its the THC that is sending people to the hospital not, SMOKING, DRINKING, FATTY FOOD, IGNORANCE, AGE, being unhealthy (which i can garuntee most of you are not Healthy no matter how much you think you are) It is your lazyness that causes more of a strain on health care. I really need you all to take the blinders off. MJ is definitely the least of our worries in the healthcare sector infact it is slowly gaining power as a positive. Please counter one of my above causes of healthcare problems and then tell me how THC is even remotely close. Hell even throw alcohol out the list. Pick fatty foods and unhealthy lifestyle. By your reasoning i should make all fast food, all red meat, all sugars etc, illegal because of the strain on society. Oh and as a side note if they wanted to actually address the issue of covering societal costs then they would tax it. and thus recoupe their losses. And yes before you even start flapping you cunts again. SOme states do tax MJ and its an illegal substance. Seriously how much more biased can you people be, your abilities on reasoned discourse are seriously lacking. Your facts are to ease to refute and you're definitely not using worthwhile resources when trying to accumulate facts. So quick making up Points in your head, and give us something that actually looks like proof and not something you made up in your head.

More later if i decide to actually read the posts in this topic.

[Drunkendubber]

2ndly governments are recognising the calming effects of MJ use. In europe during soccer games where rioting is a serious issue. Acceptance of smoking pot oked while drinking in public is severely punished. Because they know that when somone is high they are more dossile and generally easier to get along with.

[Drunkendubber]

HAHAHAHA i can't believe you posted this

1. by saying "Allowing for a majority who fit the bill to be summed up in a 'stereotype' for figurative purposes is just that- the majority of the people who fit the bill. If you don't fall into that category, you need not have taken offense in the first place." where are you getting the numbers to concentrate this majority. The majority of people in jail are african americans. Granted this number of institutionalized only represents a small percentage of actual african americans but on your level of reasoning i am now going to say that blacks are all lawbreakers heading to jail. Where is your proof on this majority? What survey was conducted.

2. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/nc/ncchap2.htm

while i am pleased that you actually did try and do a little research, you do prove me correct in your ignorance by posting a gov. study from the 70's. It is highly documented that the MJ studies conducted in the 70's were highly biased. In fact the results have yet to be repeated in any followup study SOOOOO based on the general definitions of science and experimentation the survey you decided to publish is worth about dick and that not a proMJ person saying it. Many credible sources have published such opinions im merely reitterating that point But like i said before im glad you're actually reading up on the topic, Please continue trying to be smart.

[Guest stvbreal]

"Headlines of tragic alcohol-related fatalities have become commonplace in a nation that spends more than $116 billion a year on alcoholic beverages, and recent statistics indicate that some aspects of this problem are getting worse.

 

Eight and a half percent of Americans abuse alcohol. In 2003 alone, there were 17,013 alcohol-related traffic deaths in the United States. Recent studies also highlight the toll on and around college campuses, which average 1,400 deaths and 75,000 sexual assaults related to alcohol every year. A preliminary study by Aaron White, Ph.D. and his colleagues at Duke University Medical Center shows that on campuses around the country, students routinely drink beyond the common binge-drinking threshold of 4 drinks per female and 5 drinks per male. Data collected from 15,000 first-semester college freshman show that 20 percent of males actually have 10 or more drinks at least once in a two-week period, and 8 percent have 15 or more. The consequences of underage drinking on the U.S. economy totals a breathtaking $53 billion a year and the epidemic has been labeled "the most costly of all drug problems" by The Institute of Medicine."

 

 

Do society a favor. Leave the pot smokers alone and fix the bigger problem first. graemlins/thumb.gif

 

[ 25. April 2005, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: EvilEvo ]

[copperhead]

Originally posted by CaptainTerrific:

and just because you're a fucking cheering section copperhead im going to use you as my example. How much pot do you smoke? how much did you smoke when you were trying college?

None and none.

 

How were your grades in college? How about credits you actually earned?

I'm a junior.

 

Jobs you assisted in the growth of society? which ones did you have? do you have? Rotation from menial job to menial job barely counts as blah blah blah

 

I've got a job

making twenty bux an hour

keep on yapping

 

Trying to attack my college accomplishments, yet I can still write a paragraph that has proper punctuation. I can't remember a time that reading one of your posts didn't make my head hurt.

[Alex1647545498]

Mike owns. graemlins/lol.gif

 

CR @ PB !!!!~

[Guest CTPirate]

Can't we all just get along? :'(

[copperhead]

Originally posted by CaptainTerrific:

2ndly governments are recognising the calming effects of MJ use. In europe during soccer games where rioting is a serious issue. Acceptance of smoking pot oked while drinking in public is severely punished. Because they know that when somone is high they are more dossile and generally easier to get along with.

Europe != U.S.

 

Comparing Socialism to our own Democratic Republic does not work. I guess it's a bad thing that our government cares about the productivity of the working class a bit more than our Socialist counterparts. I guess it would be nice to never have to work if you don't want to, smoke up every day, and just live off of welfare handouts.

 

I'll stick with my good paying job at 22 years old, and be happy taking a drug test for the company whenever they ask. And not have to pay higher taxes to support everyone that would rather sit around and not do shit with their lives because it is more fun to get stoned, eat ice cream and stare at the wall all day.

[copperhead]

Originally posted by EvilEvo:

"Headlines of tragic alcohol-related fatalities have become commonplace in a nation that spends more than $116 billion a year on alcoholic beverages, and recent statistics indicate that some aspects of this problem are getting worse.

 

Originally posted by copperhead:

Why do pro-marijuana people always bring alcohol into marijuana debates? It seems to me that they try to somehow justify marijuana by making the claims that there is something out there that is legal yet worse.

 

Remove alcohol from the debate for once, and then try and bring up some points as to why marijuana is a good thing.

 

[copperhead]

While I'm at it...

 

Alcoholics can still function in a normal job environment. Stoners cook my pizza.

[Guest Crankshaft]

<font color ="midnightblue"> Well, for one brief, shinning moment, I thought this was over. C'est la vie- back to the grindstone. I have class now, however, so I'll be back this afternoon. We're gonna have some fun, Cap'n

[Guest stvbreal]

Originally posted by copperhead:

While I'm at it...

 

Alcoholics can still function in a normal job environment. Stoners just do a better job at it.

Fixed.

 

The reason Pro-Weed people bring up alcohol is because it is a much BIGGER issue that needs to be delt with first.

[copperhead]

Originally posted by EvilEvo:

Fixed.

 

The reason Pro-Weed people bring up alcohol is because it is a much BIGGER issue that needs to be delt with first.

No, it's avoiding the issue. I have yet to meet someone that is pro-marijuana that actually argues why it is a good thing. Maybe it's because there is no arguement as to why it is a good thing?

[Crash1647545504]

Originally posted by desperado:

Well neither does fucking your sister so is that ok too?

Nice analogy graemlins/wtf.gif

[Drunkendubber]

Originally posted by copperhead:

I've got a job

making twenty bux an hour

keep on yapping

GOOod you consider yourself successful, then this'll be easier than i though. Please explain to me why anyone that has the same social and economic background as you but simply also smoked MJ is a defunct citizen incapable of being productive.

 

Originally posted by copperhead:

Trying to attack my college accomplishments, yet I can still write a paragraph that has proper punctuation. I can't remember a time that reading one of your posts didn't make my head hurt.

This punctuation thing you people continue to concentrate on is a worthless point, and a weak attempt at 1.trying to increase your credibility with your audience (me) 2. Attempting to convince yourself of your own intelligence. (i know how to type on the internet so im smart)

 

well we've met before and have more than a few hours in each others company. Credibility is covered in fact its pretty much maxxed out especially given the various circumstances that we've witnessed each other in. My inablity to add commas and periods to my sentences is hardly a reflection of my smarts. If you want to see any composition grades i've recieved over the course of my life im sure we'll both agree that you cant get better than an A so i'll be alright with myself on this specific assault. Secondly, if it is that inconcievable hard for you to comprehend text due to the loss of punctuation then i recommend some basic reading courses at college for you. That way instead of having to read every word, pause at every comma, and take a breath at each period. You can look at the words insert your own breaks and hesitations per the grammar standard that you do so love to tout as superior to others. Which one do you use mike? MLA?APA? one of the others? If you wish to insult my intelligence as response to something i said that insulted yours, then by all means be inventive of the avenue you chose. Something already so worthlessly debated is really nothing more than filler.

[Drunkendubber]

Hey mike, im not arguing alcohol, what about fatty foods, public fitness? people are making themselves fat on burgers and fries. yet no one cares. I know a few people that are able to concentrate under the effects of MJ versus when sober. He preffers the easier feeling of the MJ to the harsh assault and worn out after affects of ritilin. also why would one consider it a good thing? This can be taken on many different levels? why is putting rims on your car a good thing? cause it provides a certain level of happiness to the consumer. Why do some people work out religiously while others not at all. The utility derived by each reguardless of its health effects varies from person to person? Do you still smoke cigarettes? Sunbathing is another one. Someone does damage to their skin but the cost of cancer in the future is worth it since they get to look more appealing today. I'm am definitely not saying MJ is a godsend. But it is not this cause of worthlessness you all claim it to be. While there is a correlation between income and MJ usuage i highly doubt MJ causes low income.

[KennyFKINPowerz]

4/20 is good for me every year cause its my birthday.

[desperado]

Happy belated birthday.

 

 

Now, as far as trans fats, cheese burgers and french fries and compairing that to smoking dope indicates one thing, some one has been putting something in all that dope you are smoking. The last time I checked, IT WASN'T FUCKING ILLEGAL TO EAT CHEESE BURGERS!!!! While smoking dope has been illegal for some time. I ain't saying that fatty foods woln't swell your ass up like a balloon, or that it's good for you. I will not even argue that THC, a narcotic isn't better for you than nicotine, which BTW is classified as a poison. But it's still legal to smoke tobacco, its' not however legal to smoke dope. This isn't a discussion of what's safe or not. It's a discussion of legality, and to an extent a discussion of law enforcement's inability to enforce law. Do you think that if someone staged a street race in downtown Columbus that 500 people showed up for that the cops would just take video and leave us all alone. Sorry but they wouldn't. The tow trucks would be towing away our cars for hours as we ALL got ahulled off to jail. Is street racing dangerous, sure it can be. Operating a motor vehicle while stoned can be dangerous as well. Street racing is only breaking one law, while driving under the influence of a controlled substance is two counts. So street racing should be legal, right? It doesn't hurt anyone that knows what they are doing after all. We are all good drivers here so we should be allowed to street race, right?? You are making the same argument. Because you can't overdose on pot it should be legal. You can make all the silly shit statements that you want about why it should be legal. It's still NOT legal, and you need to face reality that its' not going to be legal. Hell, I wouldn't care if they did make it legal, then they could tax the shit out of it and relax the taxes on regular tobacco products. But there again, they haven't at this point so arguing that it should be is an excercize in futility.

 

And Ben, it's a stupid analogy. But arguing that we should be able to do something that is illegal, because it "Doesn't hurt anyone" Is about like arguing about wanting to have sex with your siblings as far as I am concerned.

[Guest Crankshaft]

<font color ="midnightblue">

 

Edit: Refer to the next page.

 

[ 26. April 2005, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: Folkvang ]

[Guest Crankshaft]

<font color ="midnightblue"> And, to take the 100th post of this topic, let me add this: happy birthday, Mike graemlins/thumb.gif

[Guest Crankshaft]

<font color ="midnightblue">

Ok Cap'n—let's dance.

 

 

First off, as I’ve clearly explained, I have plenty of experience on the subject and in this area in general. What, in your mind, disqualifies me? The fact that I’m against it? The fact that I disagree with you? Do I need to be a frequent pot smoker to be an authority on the morality of smoking marijuana? Through unsubstantiated pronouncements, you attempt to discredit me and to prove my arguments null and void. I thence submit that it is you, not I, who have limited exposure on this topic, and any following topic pursuant of abstinence of immoral activities and temperance of mind to the things of the world. By so unabashedly denouncing myself and sanctifying your views by some trivial dogma of equality in society and free pursuit of happiness to one's own destruction, you actually discredit yourself as having a valid, sensible ‘opinion’.

 

Second: By modifying the context of Newton’s Third Law of Physics, we come to the undeniable conclusion that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Actions, as undertaken by humans, have corollary effects. Observe: a man works out at the gym—he becomes stronger; A student prepares for a test by studying—he has a better grasp of the material come test day; a person eats food when they are hungry—they are no longer hungry. Do we see a pattern emerging? Let us then apply this pattern to the tradition of smoking weed. A person smokes weed—“X” happens, and the quality of his life deteriorates. I say “X” as any number of given scenarios are capable of transpiring, all of which would bring about the circumstance which I have just named. For “X”, substitute “he is caught by the cops, receives a criminal record, and is later prevented from entering into the employment of a company, reducing his socioeconomic status”. Or, “he is caught, and, as he was violating university policies, he is suspended from school/kicked out of school.” Or, “he was not caught, but because of the inherent mentally-debilitating effects of the drug, he never accomplishes anything of marked notice in his life, remains in the lower-economic social caste, and dies a worthless, pointless life, bereft of any meaning and not even worth the amount of food, water, and air it took to sustain it.” Or even, “he was not caught, did not make smoking pot a habit, though he did continue to smoke it occasionally for the rest of his life, suffered no ill health related effects from it, worked an executive-function position in a respected company, had a wife, kids, a house in the suburbs, eventually grandchildren, and died an old man, entirely content with his life and still guilty of perpetuating a dereliction of moral and social obligations to himself, his family, his society, to the impoverished farmers in third-world nations who are kept in near servitude and constantly fear for their lives because of the drug dealer’s ability to keep power over them due to people like this man who directly saw no ill-consequences of his actions and therefore continued unhindered on his path, oblivious to whatever harm he might be creating as a consequence to his decisions.” Those, and any number of other scenarios are entirely plausible, and can certainly be said to have life ‘ruining’ effects (life being defined as more than the sum of one’s accomplishments within a given society), whereas they would not have occurred had the individual not smoked marijuana in the first place.

 

And your argument that people who smoke pot and are worthless are going to be worthless “reguardless” of what outlet they found to waste their time? This is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard, and is akin to saying, “The people who are fat are fat regardless of what they eat.” Again, reference my corollary-effects analysis above, and I think you will find that one condition does, in fact, influence the other.

 

Furthermore, your example of gun owners is not only inaccurate, but more importantly, IRRELEVANT as a situation to demonstrate the counterintuitive nature you perceive in our argument. To liken marijuana usage and a person’s success or failure in life to the state which arises from gun ownership and homicide is to imply some inherent connection between the similarities of shooting someone and toking up on marijuana. There is none. First, I don’t hold manufacturers responsible for what consumers do with their goods—I hold the individual responsible for what he does or does not do with the liberty which is given him. For the same reason I don’t blame drug dealers for having clients, I don’t blame gun manufacturers for those who end up killing someone after purchasing a firearm from their company. It is THAT individual’s choice, not the company, or drug dealers. Certainly, if NO ONE manufactured any weapons, there would be no shootings; just as if no one grew any pot, there would be no stoners. Your other possible point for stating this as an example—that owning guns directly leads to homicide, and smoking pot directly leads to delinquency—is also invalid, though it is perhaps not as obvious as one would be lead to believe after reading your post. While it is true that not all pot smokers become societal waste, nor all gun owners become serial killers from the rooftops, the idea that one condition (I.E., gun ownership) exclusively demands the other (I.E., homicide) ignores the underlying issue—that of probable cause and expected effect or outcome. Suggesting that pot has any other eventuality than becoming a societal delinquent is not possible, while suggesting that owning guns INEVITABLY leads to homicidal maniacs is impossibly obtuse (though liberals today would have us believe otherwise). The fact is, owning guns can bring about a net societal benefit; hunting, self-defense and protection of one’s self and family are all entirely compelling reasons for owning firearms. However, pot has one, and only one purpose: to get high. Regardless of what your initial reasons or rationalizations suggest, if pot did not have the psychotomimetic effects that it does, then it would not be used—period.

 

And YOUR attempt to declare that the nuclear bomb is NOT what killed all those people is a failure of your acumen to perceive that if I have a 21 Kiloton nuclear warhead and I drop it over a heavily populated area, there will be a drastic loss of life; and, as you put it, is also a “failure of reasoned discourse”. Certainly, had the will of those in the government of the US at the time not desired such a weapon, it would not have come into existence; but this does not legitimatize your claim that smoking pot is not what makes the people in question degenerate. Pot only amplifies the effects. We are now harping on an issue, however, that has been more than readily addressed in my previous posts: that increased pot usage and acceptance is resultant of a society which has already succumbed to the degrading pressures of equality, tolerance, and coerced passivity towards threatening trends. These are the things that lead to a slovenly class of citizens—not pot. However, it cannot be argued with any hope of success that pot positively contributes any modicum of richness or produces any kind of flourishing achievements within a society. Dissenters might point to Bob Marley, Jimi Hendrix, or John Mayer as cultural icons heavily influenced by marijuana (as one girl I brought this up with did); but surely, as much as one might enjoy their music, it cannot be implied with any sincerity that they are as invaluable to cultural progress as those that bring about innovations in technology, science, literature, true art (the inspired masterpieces which truly reflected the artist’s soul, not the whimsical garbage that is so prevalent today, teasing the fickle fancies of foppish ‘connoisseurs’ from one day to the next), dance, theatre, or, albeit a rather dry medium, the government. I say that their influence is further negated (the three aforementioned singers) by the fact that their appeal is appreciated predominantly among groups of people who, ‘coincidently’, smoke marijuana.

 

You believe Mike (copperhead) is ‘egging me on’? I believe if you’ll take the time to reference previous posts, you’ll distinctly note that I, in fact, STARTED this thread, and made many posts of my own volition prior to Mike’s introduction. While I appreciate the fact that there is another sane person on this board, he is in no way egging me on (which I think you’ll also find apparent in consideration to the sheer amount of opposition I’ve faced by taking this stance; if I depended on anyone “egging” me on, I’d have been out of this debate a LONG time ago). And your ideas about my motivations are staggeringly uninformed. Pursuit of personal happiness is something any pseudo-philosopher will eagerly attest to as being the primary driving factor in our lives; yet, with refinement, he will also add that wholesome, genuine personal happiness is not begat from indolent quests for physical pleasure. He, like Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle in his Nicomachean ethics and the other great masters before him, will admit that genuine pleasure is brought about by fulfillment of the mind’s demand for higher-function mental stimuli. So, while I am not against people expending their efforts in the search for various forms of “a good time”, I believe our criterion for a “good time” need to be narrowed significantly to include more refined intellectual endeavors, with less emphasis on base, carnal, animalistic activities. We are not animals—why must we behave as them? Should we not behave according to the functions of reason as our status as human being’s demands? And secondly, I am in no way, whatsoever, in whatever possible conception your mind is capable of conjuring, JEALOUS, of those cretins, or of anyone who is ignorant enough to seek pleasure by the ingestion of alien, harmful chemicals. I am quite content in my state of abstinence, and regard anyone possessing the wherewithal to refrain from such usages—including myself—in a much improved situation than those who do not. Furthermore, my parents told me absolutely nothing about the effects of drugs (including alcohol) when I was growing up; we never had even one conversation. My decision not to use them was based purely on my observation of my parent’s behavior (who also did not use drugs in any way, including alcohol), and by the behavior I observed in people who did use them (not on TV, but on the streets). These were more than adequate reasons for me not to even consider using them. My relationship with God is also among those reasons, though I do not mention it as I didn’t take it into consideration until much later in my life, and because some/many of you debating are not Christians, and do not value abstinence for the sake of spiritual harmony with God as a valid enough reason to resist the temptation of drug usage. This is slightly beside the main point, however; yet let it be noted it was not I to raise this situation to levels of a personal nature.

 

Your next point concerning the Constitution (I assume you mean the Bill of Rights) is so unsound it is laughable; yes, while it (the Bill of Rights…) does guarantee the right of citizens to protest their government “peaceably” for a redress of grievances, and maintain their freedom of speech, it makes no mention whatsoever of misinformed, self-important college students gathering on a University campus knowingly engaged in illegal activities as an admitted “part” of their protest (indeed, there would be none if it weren’t for this lone factor) on an international “holiday” that for the necessity of any kind of authenticating purposes whatsoever is eagerly masqueraded as a ‘political statement’, which magically combines their vices in illegal substances with their ability to placate such vices; I think you would be hard pressed indeed to find any sort of corroborating amendment for that.

 

Now, your next statement jumps from your last shaky limb to a limb that doesn’t even exist. Where, please tell me, do you find the idea that I somehow believe I am behind/at a disadvantage? Verily, were I at any kind of disadvantage to those cretins ‘protesting’ on 4/20, I might seriously reconsider our respective positions to see if they were gaining something from their intoxication that I might benefit from. No, Cap’n, I am at no disadvantage. The only advantage they have that I lack is popular support, which is of course no indicator of legitimacy.

 

You really must stop making these personal assessments of our lives when you actually have no idea about them. I think Mike’s example is evidence enough, but to without proof declare that we are all significantly less healthy (you actually call into question the bare fact of whether we are even healthy or not) is not only irrelevant, it’s ignorant. I’m willing to bet that Ken (iwishiwascool) would tend to disagree with you on that one. But then, you seem to have qualified yourself by some unknown means as experts in all our respective lives, so you must know better than he.

 

Your next point I already dealt with; though it is established that marijuana usage is not likely a causal factor in our high health care rates, this doesn’t change the fact that it has been definitively proven to be of a significant detriment to your health. This alone is enough to conclude that its usage isn’t advisable.

 

And, I’m certain that if you posted a fact like, say, some unidentified states engaging in taxation of marijuana, you would, of course, be able to provide evidence of such a claim? I have heard nothing to this effect, and would simply like to “brush up” my knowledge of the subject. I do hope, however, that this is not for the purposes of medicinal marijuana, for that is a separate subject entirely from what we are taking about, and would, in fact, be utterly inconsequential in the argument.

 

Our facts are too “ease” to refute? I would tend to disagree, though perhaps if we were to begin to create imaginary circumstances which contested them, which seems to be your methodology of “reasoned discourse”, then yes, you might be right. Though, I must admit, to irrationally chalk up all opposing arguments to such invalid and inscrutable a source as “in our heads”, would add quite a bit of weight to one’s own arguments. Too bad this line of reasoning isn’t compelling enough to win any debates.

 

Your next post, as I’ve tried to explain so many times (if those of you who disagree would actually read ALL of my posts before you posted any of your own, much of this repetition could be avoided), is again not a meter for us to judge ourselves by. Legality is not my primary concern—it is morality. If Europe wishes to legalize marijuana to calm it’s people down, that’s fine (though at the same time this happens I would venture to guess that general taxes would also sky-rocket). This does not mean they should, and especially does not suggest it as a legitimate course of action for the United States (it should be noted that I would oppose it in the US even if it were legal; this division is seemingly where mine and Desperado’s argument separate).

 

Next, we see you walk thoughtlessly right into a self-made trap. I shall demonstrate two-fold: by addressing our issue here, and the issue you mysteriously brought up of your own accord. The “numbers” you refer to are not, as such, “numbers”. They are simple trends which any person with two eyes and a detached sense of reason can observe in the masses of idle ideologues who stymie society’s progress in a quagmire of half-truths and ridiculous assertions about their “rights” and their “freedoms”. I, for one, see them, and note them by their behavior, which markedly contrasts itself to my own if by nothing else than their simple habit of smoking weed. I then make a logical connection between the two: X is part of a group; X uniquely does activity Y; X also has unique beliefs of YR; the assumption we can draw from this is that if X, and only X, pursues activity Y and believes YR, then we can create a new category to place X in, separate from the others in X’s former group, thereby distinguishing X from everyone else by X’s beliefs and activities. Through this process, I have determined the beliefs of pot smokers (as it pertains to them), and what activity it is that sets them apart (smoking pot). Therefore, I give you an entirely authenticated sequence which I have used to provide you with the statement “…majority of the people who fit the bill”.

 

Secondly, I offer you this information to perhaps give your statement about “African Americans” some credibility. Consider:

 

In the 1999 (is that too far back for you?) Index of Leading Cultural Indicators, African Americans, though only 13 percent of the population, are responsible for 42 percent of all violent crimes and over half of the murders in the United States.

In 1987, white criminals chose black victims in only 3 percent of violent crimes, while black criminals chose white victims 50 percent of the time. When the crime was rape, white criminals chose black women in 0 percent of their assaults, while black criminals chose white women in 28 percent of assaults. Of 83,000 cases of rape, not one was recorded in which the rapist was white, and the victim was black. White criminals chose black victims in 2 percent of their robberies; black criminals chose white victims in 73 percent of their robberies. According to the 1994 Justice Department statistics, blacks committed 90 percent of interracial violent crimes. As blacks account for only 12 percent of the population, these figures meant they were fifty times more likely to commit crimes of interracial violence as whites. Based on these same calculations, blacks were 100 to 250 times more likely than whites to commit interracial gang rapes and gang assaults. Even in the “hate crimes” category—less than 1 percent of interracial crimes—blacks were twice as likely to be the assailant as the victim. So, although I think this is totally pointless to our discussion, how’s that for providing you with the necessary evidence for making applicable assertions (or, in your case—that being this one—totally wild and extravagant tangents which relate nothing to the topic)? I know what I’m talking about. Trust me.

 

While you are “pleased” that I actually did try and do a little research? Who the hell do you think you are to dispense judgment over my perceived efforts? When you can consistently complete a cogent, well-thought out response free of errors and typos, that presents empirical evidence as support for your position rather than your intuitions about the proprietary conventions of society, when you have enough RESPECT for those your debating with to take the time to not only point out your grievances, but to do so in such a way that they are able to understand them without having to piece your argument together, THEN you will be in a position to pronounce judgment upon my efforts, but not before. Further, I think that if you would take a little time to examine that source I’ve given you, you’ll also find many statements which are counterintuitive to the position that marijuana has a negative net societal impact. Though they aren’t a definitive source, you must also be willing to concede that these too, though they support your position, are also inadmissible as definitive evidence due to their age. If your pathetic ego needs stroking, I think you’ll find it difficult to do at my expense.

 

The inefficiency of ritilin to ease your friend’s mind is not an excuse to use marijuana. If you can’t understand this based on this post, and previous posts, I’m not going to expend any more effort to explain it. And, if I wanted to take a Puritanistic position, I would indeed condemn the purchase of such extravagant frivolities as “rims” as self-indulgence in things of the world and arrogant possessions simply for the purpose of attracting attention and the envy of others. However, I take much less exception to the purchasing of rims for one’s car for several reasons, not the least of which is the fact that the purchase and use of rims, for their intended use, has no detrimental effects upon the buyer, or his society. It could be argued that he is devaluating himself by cultivating these materialistic desires, and that he is a negative progenitor of unwholesome societal trends, but this is still not as drastic as his use and endorsement of marijuana. And your next statement that you doubt marijuana causes low income is actually maintained that pot did not, in fact, create or encourage low income situations. But, I suppose that since the study was conducted in 70’s, this point isn’t justifiable. And, while we’re on the topic, where exactly did you see a date for the report? I saw none, though I’m willing to accept that perhaps it was. Sun bathing, excessive alcohol consumption, cigarettes, excessive unhealthy eating habits; all are perfectly legal, though we do not generally find them acceptable by principal, allowing them to continue only through the weakness of our own characters. It is this susceptibility which I submit is the causal factor in allowing such activities a smoking marijuana to be deemed acceptable by society, against our better judgment. Vices in pleasure are dangerous bedfellows for virtue and morality.

 

And finally, if you expect to have an argument that is given credence, remove anything from your public display that would indicate you are of the disposition and maturity to find humor and or enjoyment out of a pyramid created from kegs of beer. You can tell me I’m not as smart as I think I am when you can prove you’re as smart as you think you are.

 

Next?

[Guest Rane]

I'm next, Shut the fuck up already.