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HD to buy MV?


v65rider

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They want the technology. HD can't figure it out by themselves. Too expensive to do trial and error. Much easier to assimilate the tech from someone else.

How the hell is it hard to design a liquid cooled, dual overhead cam that makes decent power? there are at least 6 MAJOR manufacturers doing it now, buy a bike, tear it apart and look. not only that there are several forums out there that discuss ONLY that, how to make power from an internal combustion engine. It's not hard. It's actually very simple especially with what is available today. It's not black arcane magic, it's knowledge, read a book.

HD is out to push their product, now they have just aquired 500+ dealers in Europe that are going to become HD dealers as well, I seriously doubt those inbred hillbillys in Milwaukee can comprehend something as complex as liquid cooling, let alone a DOHC 4 valve/cyl. They're stagnate, and will continue to be so. There are plenty of sheep out there that want tee-shirts, now they'll just be more readily available in EU than the were before.

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The buyers are often inbreds, but their engineers are pretty top notch at what they do, catering to what those said inbreds(and yuppies) want, a traditional looking and sounding bike without the hassle of owning a traditional bike...setting valves, chain maint, re torquing bolts.

Now they've got hydraulic lifters, not a bad thing for a 5500 rpm bike, belt drive on a 60 hp engine and the quality has gone from horrendous in the AMF years to being about on par with any of the top brands.

The paint, chrome plating, fit and finish are the best in the industry, the wiring is great and they've done wonders with the EFI.

Their advances in design are usually the invisible things that won't upset the "purists" that make things seamless.

I have no doubt that if they set their engineering teams to it they could build a liquid cooled OHC triple, four or even opposite six that you could put 100K trouble free miles on, it just wouldn't sell.

Bitch and whine about all you want about the type of engine and style, but that's what sells for now and they make that as well as anyone.

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Well, I can tell you this whole thing makes my head hurt. I had such a love for the F4 Tamburini and it's all lost now....

And in my opinion, this is all a marketing/sales move, and is not based on the idea of technology assimilation, though I'm sure that will happen too. HD tried to acquire a "sportbike" division before, and Buell is hardly a decent excuse for that. Swing and a miss there. So, in another attempt to diversify their sales demographics, they'll give it another shot, and probably riun an Italian icon (at least in my eyes) in the process.

Like Dweezel said, it's not that hard to make an engine. I'm an engineer, and I even took a Theory of ICE's class for shits my senior year. I can tell you, even an Electrical Engineer can understand that it ain't that hard to make it work (and we suck at mechanical classes), so I don't think HD is in need of an engine education form MV, they just want the name. And yea, HDs designs are stagnant because their demographic is stagnant. Why change your product when none of your customers are smart enough to demand better?

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okay, this has been a tug-o-war match...

they're aquiring, they aren't, they're aquiring, they aren't...

anyone have a final word?

It looks like it...

"Under the agreement, Harley-Davidson will acquire 100% of the MV Agusta Group shares for a total consideration of approximately $109 million, which includes the fulfilment of existing bank debt for approximately $70 million."

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1755561/

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The buyers are often inbreds, but their engineers are pretty top notch at what they do, catering to what those said inbreds(and yuppies) want, a traditional looking and sounding bike without the hassle of owning a traditional bike...setting valves, chain maint, re torquing bolts.

Now they've got hydraulic lifters, not a bad thing for a 5500 rpm bike, belt drive on a 60 hp engine and the quality has gone from horrendous in the AMF years to being about on par with any of the top brands.

The paint, chrome plating, fit and finish are the best in the industry, the wiring is great and they've done wonders with the EFI.

Their advances in design are usually the invisible things that won't upset the "purists" that make things seamless.

I have no doubt that if they set their engineering teams to it they could build a liquid cooled OHC triple, four or even opposite six that you could put 100K trouble free miles on, it just wouldn't sell.

Bitch and whine about all you want about the type of engine and style, but that's what sells for now and they make that as well as anyone.

Not really, They are running them exceptionally lean to meet emissions requirements now a days. IF they knew what they were doing they would design a better head, this would take almost no effort and really wouldn't change anything about the way the bike looks except maybe the valve cover, and they could even keep their cam in block 2 valve head and do a damn good job at the same time(2 valves are the way to go if most of your useable RPM's are below 4500, proven fact many times). They would design a head with good swirl, a combustion chamber that promotes swirl, and an efficient burn, and an exhaust port that will get the air out faster to keep the head cool. Take GM's LSx motors for example. THAT is a killer head design, and the head is where it is. GM's poorest flowing head flowes more than Fords best 4 valve head, and GM's best head flows more than many top of the line aftermarket Big block heads. all with "ancient" cam in block, 2 valve/cyl heads.

A 2 valve head gives you swirl. Which is prudent for making torque and filling the cylinder at lower (below 4500 rpms) speeds. I'd be willing to say with a simple head redesign, cam change, and decent computer system 1hp per CI would be easy to acheive without pushing the limits of air cooled motors. Not to mention the coatings they have available today. Coating the bottom of the intake valve, combustion chamber, and the exhaust valve/port to the manifold would EASILY control over heating problems while allowing them to make much more power. But it all starts with the head. and they don't have it, and won't change it.

Hell they had to go to Porsche to get the engine for the VROD (which still isn't all that impressive for a 1200cc V-twin if you ask me)!! how much more proof do you need that they are imbeciles! Buell was so fed up with them he went to Rotax for the engine for the new 1125R and FINALLY has a respectable sport bike (that I may even look at if I can get one outside of a HD dealership) HD is full of idiots. They could easily keep their air cooled (why?) motors and get MUCH more performance, and better emissions out of it with a simple redesign, and all it would REALLY take is a better head. I bet I could make a better head than what they have.

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Hell they had to go to Porsche to get the engine for the VROD (which still isn't all that impressive for a 1200cc V-twin if you ask me)!! how much more proof do you need that they are imbeciles! Buell was so fed up with them he went to Rotax for the engine for the new 1125R and FINALLY has a respectable sport bike (that I may even look at if I can get one outside of a HD dealership) HD is full of idiots. They could easily keep their air cooled (why?) motors and get MUCH more performance, and better emissions out of it with a simple redesign, and all it would REALLY take is a better head. I bet I could make a better head than what they have.

I kinda understand the air cooled fascination. I love my dune bug, and it's engine is about on par with a harley... 1600cc, air cooled, 50 hp, louder than it is fast, (then again it's 50 years old, too)

Harley found a niche, and as long as the niche holds out, they will continue to sell motorcycles to suit that niche...:nono:

If the auto industry was as poorly regulated as the motorcycle indusrty, GM could pump out some new 1969 camaros and I'm sure they'd sell out...

they can't quite do that though...

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